Z0MG 1 C@|\|'T SEE T3H C@LEC0'Z
-rbb
that is funny
lawlz
For those complaining about the view. I'll agree with them. One of my favorite things to look at from my box seats from behind home plate is the beautiful Ballpark East Garage. The blue paint looks especially nice, I'm glad they did that.
It's really simple. The market for condos in BPV village goes like this. Put them up for sale, rent, lease. Lemming Cardinal fans gobble them up like all the other crap these owners have sold us over the years. Now if you'll excuse me, I have to go pee in my $1200 original Busch Stadium Urinal.
lawlz
For those complaining about the view. I'll agree with them. One of my favorite things to look at from my box seats from behind home plate is the beautiful Ballpark East Garage. The blue paint looks especially nice, I'm glad they did that.
It's really simple. The market for condos in BPV village goes like this. Put them up for sale, rent, lease. Lemming Cardinal fans gobble them up like all the other crap these owners have sold us over the years. Now if you'll excuse me, I have to go pee in my $1200 original Busch Stadium Urinal.
- 8,910
Would anyone be surprised if the makeup of Ballpark Village is still being negotiated between Cordish and City Hall? Even in the eleventh hour?
Can anyone think of any reasons why Cordish would want to eliminate all of the residential from the Phase 1? Which is looking more and more likely!
I think it's two part...
-Demand for office space is high and they can make more $
-Cordish doesn't want to be involved with residential.
As far as I can tell, none of Cordish's recent developments contain residential.
Can anyone think of any reasons why Cordish would want to eliminate all of the residential from the Phase 1? Which is looking more and more likely!
I think it's two part...
-Demand for office space is high and they can make more $
-Cordish doesn't want to be involved with residential.
As far as I can tell, none of Cordish's recent developments contain residential.
trent wrote:For those complaining about the view. I'll agree with them. One of my favorite things to look at from my box seats from behind home plate is the beautiful Ballpark East Garage. The blue paint looks especially nice, I'm glad they did that.
I totally agree. My favorite thing about the blue paint is the texture. It looks particularly nice at sundown, when the shadows of the bumps are stretched 2 cm more than their actual size. It really is amazing. It gives me goose bumps... just like the texture of the paint!!
BTW, do they have tiny beads in that paint? You know, tiny,little balls, that give that paint the interesting texture?
As I said before, Cordish doesn't do residential, which was why I was very skeptical of their claims of 1200 residential units from the start. The only reason those numbers were included in the proposal was to dissimulate the project for the benefit of the Cardinals, i.e. make the proposal look better than it actually was, during the stadium negotiations. Now Silly Hall is kowtowing to Cordish as they back away from their claims. Again, Exhibit A for what happens when a retail developer attempts to do residential development; I give you The Boulevard.bpe235 wrote:Would anyone be surprised if the makeup of Ballpark Village is still being negotiated between Cordish and City Hall? Even in the eleventh hour?
Can anyone think of any reasons why Cordish would want to eliminate all of the residential from the Phase 1?
I think it's two part...
-Demand for office space is high and they can make more $
-Cordish doesn't want to be involved with residential.
As far as I can tell, none of Cordish's recent developments contain residential.
Of course I would like to see office space in BPV, but come on. Do you really think they are going to find enough demand for office space to fill the three 30+ story buildings in the renderings? The project needs a balance of office and residential. The whole idea of mixed-use is that you create and combine different uses in order to have a project that is as active as possible 24/7/52. Otherwise, you have a ghost town after 5 PM when there isn't a Cardinal night game, kind of like downtown now.
I think it is becoming increasingly clear that if they truly wanted the mixed-use paragon that Ballpark Village ostensibly was to be, then perhaps the Cardinals should have chosen another developer.
I've come to realize that maybe I'm just an overly patient person and tend to give people the benefit of the doubt, but I still think that we'll see condos along with this project. I just think that building condos here is as obvious a moneymaker as there is. Did excluding them from the first phase disappoint me? Yes. Do I think that is a mistake? Yes. But I am just certain that Cordish is smart enough to see that building condos will be an cash juggernaut for them. And as jlblues said, they won't fill up three towers with office space. There isn't that much demand.
Then there's the question of "Well, what if they don't build all the towers?" to which I have no answer. But hey, I'm trying to be optimistic.
Then there's the question of "Well, what if they don't build all the towers?" to which I have no answer. But hey, I'm trying to be optimistic.
It would be neat if Cordish/Cardinals could sell air rights to other developers and let them build the towers within the development. Essentially, another developer would purchase the "air right", similar to just purchasing land, and then have the right to build a condo tower within that space.
Just a thought - this would give Cordish/Cardinals more $$$ but not involve them directly in the residential portion. I would love to see an established residential developer (aka Metropolitan or OPUS) build tower(s) there.
Just a thought - this would give Cordish/Cardinals more $$$ but not involve them directly in the residential portion. I would love to see an established residential developer (aka Metropolitan or OPUS) build tower(s) there.
- 39
Mayor Slay was on 590 this morning talking about the Ballpark Village. A lot of this is already known, but just wanted to recap a few things for everyone. I tried to remember as much as possible.
- 100,000 sq. ft of Class A Office Space will be part of Phase 1.
- Don't remember the rest of the sq. footage for Phase 1, but the rest will consist of restaurants and retail. As most of you know by now, there will be no residential in the first phase.
- It will cost 287 million for the first phase
- 1200 parking spots
- Numerous tenants are signed and ready to go, just waiting to announce them.
- "IF" phase 1 is successful, there is a possibility of new construction and UP TO potentially 250 units. Far cry from the 1200 we had heard. Not surprised though. Office space could increase in future phases as well.
- Waiting for some approval from the state, then the bonds to be issued and construction will start immediately following. Early September was his guess.
That's all I remember for now.
- 100,000 sq. ft of Class A Office Space will be part of Phase 1.
- Don't remember the rest of the sq. footage for Phase 1, but the rest will consist of restaurants and retail. As most of you know by now, there will be no residential in the first phase.
- It will cost 287 million for the first phase
- 1200 parking spots
- Numerous tenants are signed and ready to go, just waiting to announce them.
- "IF" phase 1 is successful, there is a possibility of new construction and UP TO potentially 250 units. Far cry from the 1200 we had heard. Not surprised though. Office space could increase in future phases as well.
- Waiting for some approval from the state, then the bonds to be issued and construction will start immediately following. Early September was his guess.
That's all I remember for now.
Hmm... all very interesting. Looking over the Cordish website, they are clearly focused more on the office, entertainment, retail side of the spectrum, but I am not so concerned yet.
They key for the City is that they must push Cordish for either major office tenant anchors or must push for the residential. While I have never been able to decide which is better, in some ways if we all believe that the market for ballpark looking residential units is unparalleled downtown, then I say let Cordish build up the BPV with office space and let residential developers handle building residential on the lots due east and west of the stadium or even on the stadium garage lots if they could be purchased. Either way, the City must push for a final clarification on which avenue is going to be taken because I see the prospect of residential development in the BPV as the elephant in the corner of the room. With the potential to flood the market with units with ballpark views, all other developers must be mindful of what the Cards and Cordish will do.
They key for the City is that they must push Cordish for either major office tenant anchors or must push for the residential. While I have never been able to decide which is better, in some ways if we all believe that the market for ballpark looking residential units is unparalleled downtown, then I say let Cordish build up the BPV with office space and let residential developers handle building residential on the lots due east and west of the stadium or even on the stadium garage lots if they could be purchased. Either way, the City must push for a final clarification on which avenue is going to be taken because I see the prospect of residential development in the BPV as the elephant in the corner of the room. With the potential to flood the market with units with ballpark views, all other developers must be mindful of what the Cards and Cordish will do.
I think they could build a larger office building. 100,000 sq. ft. is a pip-squeak building for downtown - particularly in the BPV area. They should build as tall and dense as possible to maximize use of the land.STL_Rising wrote:Mayor Slay was on 590 this morning talking about the Ballpark Village. A lot of this is already known, but just wanted to recap a few things for everyone. I tried to remember as much as possible.
- 100,000 sq. ft of Class A Office Space will be part of Phase 1.
Arch City wrote:100,000 sq. ft. is a pip-squeak building for downtown - particularly in the BPV area. They should build as tall and dense as possible to maximize use of the land.
++
The Gateway One building is about 420,000 sq. ft., for comparison.
Maybe it's just me, but that seems like a drastically scaled back plan unless the subsequent phases are much larger.
-RBB
- 359
RBB wrote:Arch City wrote:100,000 sq. ft. is a pip-squeak building for downtown - particularly in the BPV area. They should build as tall and dense as possible to maximize use of the land.
++
The Gateway One building is about 420,000 sq. ft., for comparison.
Maybe it's just me, but that seems like a drastically scaled back plan unless the subsequent phases are much larger.
-RBB
100,000 sq. feet only? Last time I checked Ballpark Village wasn't going to be built in downtown Columbia, MO. How can a project that has the potential advantages enjoyed by BPV be so weak and inadequate? If there was a development that fit the "If you build it, they will come" philosophy, BPV would be it. The question I ask then, is why aren't they building it to the high specifications that are desired and quite frankly warranted given BPV's location? If people see that they aren't putting 100% into this project, why should they care to be a part of it? Judging by the relatively small size of the buildings proposed (in the first phase at least) compared to most other buildings downtown, this project should easily get done by 2009. No wonder they haven't been in a rush to start on it
I was expecting a "world-class entertainment district" but it seems like we're going to get another "St. Louis Centre" kind of development (okay but nothing to write home about) judging by the trends being set by those involved with this project.stlmizzoutiger wrote:No wonder they haven't been in a rush to start on it
I would say Westport Plaza is a more apt comparison, albeit with less office space and no hotels.
If Mayor Slay was quoted correctly above, it suggests that Cordish/Cardinals are putting the minimum investment into Phase 1, after which (sometime in 2011?), they will reevaluate whether there will be ANY subsequent phases. This is a far cry from what was sold to us and a tremendous missed opportunity. They are eliminating exactly all of the elements of the "mixed-use" project that I believe would ensure its success.
- 8,910
STL_Rising wrote:Mayor Slay was on 590 this morning talking about the Ballpark Village. A lot of this is already known, but just wanted to recap a few things for everyone. I tried to remember as much as possible.
- 100,000 sq. ft of Class A Office Space will be part of Phase 1.
- Don't remember the rest of the sq. footage for Phase 1, but the rest will consist of restaurants and retail. As most of you know by now, there will be no residential in the first phase.
- It will cost 287 million for the first phase
- 1200 parking spots
- Numerous tenants are signed and ready to go, just waiting to announce them.
- "IF" phase 1 is successful, there is a possibility of new construction and UP TO potentially 250 units. Far cry from the 1200 we had heard. Not surprised though. Office space could increase in future phases as well.
- Waiting for some approval from the state, then the bonds to be issued and construction will start immediately following. Early September was his guess.
That's all I remember for now.
wow, 287 mill sure doesn't get you what it used to! That doesn't leave a whole lot of cash for the 3 towers (grinding teeth).
I think it's supposed to be $387 million. At least that's what all the articles this week have stated.
I'm still optimistic, but this plan seems to be sliding down hill lately. Why is the mayor just spouting the company line instead of pushing hard to make this the best possible. I understand why there may not be condos in the first phase, but if there isn't condos or very large chunks of office space in the second phase this will be a gigantic missed opportunity.
I'm still optimistic, but this plan seems to be sliding down hill lately. Why is the mayor just spouting the company line instead of pushing hard to make this the best possible. I understand why there may not be condos in the first phase, but if there isn't condos or very large chunks of office space in the second phase this will be a gigantic missed opportunity.
^ Well there better be one or the other for the public assistance the Cards are receiving. Look, shops and restaurants are nice, but without either an office or residential component to support this, then I just don't see the BPV being a long term success. So far this year we have heard both Ed Jones, Centene and a number of major law firms all looking for new office space. It is not like the possible tenants aren't out there. The only reason to be optimistic is that the Cards have a shrinking the timeline and cut the tower out of phase 1 to get it all done by the 2009 All-star game, but given the constant back-sliding that the Cards, Cordish, the Mayor and other public officials to make it seem as though all is well, I do begin to wonder about what is really going on behind the scenes.
Maybe it is time the Mayor and company learn to play hardball with the developers who seem to be cutting down the huge development potential of BPV (a once in a generation opportunity) rather than the public who demand a bit more accountability from leaders for the decisions they make (and yes I am talking about both the gateway mall and the Bohemian Hill site).
Maybe it is time the Mayor and company learn to play hardball with the developers who seem to be cutting down the huge development potential of BPV (a once in a generation opportunity) rather than the public who demand a bit more accountability from leaders for the decisions they make (and yes I am talking about both the gateway mall and the Bohemian Hill site).
- 8,910
These assumptions about Mayor Slay are unjustified. He is pushing for residential. Are you privy to info that contradicts this, or are you just looking for someone other than Cordish to blame?
- 39
On the 287 mil vs 387 mil. . . I have been hearing the 387 million for the first phase as well, so i was surprised when i heard the 287 million. I'm pretty sure that is what I heard, but then again, what the heck do I know. Also I forgot to mention that the Bowling Hall of Fame is still up in the air as to whether they are giving up their spot and building a new home in BPV. The mayor seemed pretty unsure when asked about this piece of land.
bpe235 wrote:These assumptions about Mayor Slay are unjustified. He is pushing for residential. Are you privy to info that contradicts this, or are you just looking for someone other than Cordish to blame?
That is good to hear, since you seem to know what you are talking about. I am going on appearances only. I just don't want this to be a huge missed opportunity.
Simply based on the info that can be gathered publicly Bpe. If he is doing his best then so be it. But all we hear is how great the project is from the Mayor followed by stores about the new and reduced intensity of the development. It would be hard to judge much else from what we hear publicly.
If you are privy to such info Bpe, maybe you can shed some light on why the residential units have been cut from phase 1 and whether we can expect either more residential (and I do mean more than a total of 250 units throughout all development phases) or office space to be announced later.
If you are privy to such info Bpe, maybe you can shed some light on why the residential units have been cut from phase 1 and whether we can expect either more residential (and I do mean more than a total of 250 units throughout all development phases) or office space to be announced later.
What a freaking embarrassment. At least I know that Xing and I will be able to view our favorite parking garage relatively unobstructed.
The Mayor, and the citizens of St. Louis should be angry and upset at Cordish and the Cards owners for this half-ass rendition of what they sold us to get their new cash cow (Busch III).
The Mayor, and the citizens of St. Louis should be angry and upset at Cordish and the Cards owners for this half-ass rendition of what they sold us to get their new cash cow (Busch III).
Any business that takes over/builds a tower in BPV will have the greatest free advertising in the city. Every time the cardinals play, 80% of the stadium would be staring right at their building (and presumably their sign). Not to mention every time the cameras looked into the outfield. How many times every game do the announcers talk about the great view of St. Louis' skyline from the stadium? I bet a new tower or two in BPV would be mentioned by name and shown on tv at least 10 times during every single home game. How can nobody be interested in taking advantage of this??
- 8,910
JMedwick wrote:Simply based on the info that can be gathered publicly Bpe. If he is doing his best then so be it. But all we hear is how great the project is from the Mayor followed by stores about the new and reduced intensity of the development. It would be hard to judge much else from what we hear publicly.
If you are privy to such info Bpe, maybe you can shed some light on why the residential units have been cut from phase 1 and whether we can expect either more residential (and I do mean more than a total of 250 units throughout all development phases) or office space to be announced later.
Please don't get the impression that I know a whole lot more than everyone else on this topic. But what I do hear through channels is that Francis wants the residential portion of this project as much as the rest of us. I'm sorry JMED, I don't share your assumptios that Francis has control over how many residential units are built. He isn't the developer. If you wanna know why the residential has been cut, ask Cordish.