urbanSTL

C'mon guys, we need to focus. We need 80 pages of idle chatter by the fall! [-o<

Once again this topic is at the top of the list.

Isnt there anything better to talk about other than "no news" on a project?



Is there anyway to 'bump down' a thread.



This one really needs it

bpe235 wrote:

DeBaliviere wrote:Here's how it will be laid out:

anyone know how tall the buildings are along 8th? Especially the one at 8th and Walnut? Also, other than the two highrises, what will be included in phase 2 exactly?

My prediction is that we will all be disapointed and astonished by the small number of residential units in this development. My guess is that the only building with residential units in it will be the tower on the SE corner of the development to be constructed in phase two. (whenever that will be)



my prediction is no more than 100 residential units...

I would be astonished at that. One would think that they'd sell like hotckaes - especially if they offer views of the field.



here's hoping that the underlying structures of "phase one" will incorporate foundations capable of supporting future highrises ...

The recently posted HOK renderings and those on previous pages look very similar, but I'd swear the buildings along 8th Street, or the western edge of the Village, look significantly different. This makes me wonder if something has been quietly worked out with the National Bowling Hall of Fame.

It could just be the writer of the article or something else but any project management that states that a general contractor will be named in a month OR SO is on uncertain footing.



Any government entity that issues bonds in about a month (and doesn't know the exact date and time of day at this point) is fudging around.



The plan now reminds me seriously of downtown Louisville's quasi-successfull, reconstituted several times, street mall.

I took some pics today while I was wasting time waiting for electric. SCI engineering was digging and taking samples in buckets. SCI is definitely doing environmental work. Not sure if it is still phase one work or if there is more stuff there that could potentially require cleanup. There was contaminants where the new Ballpark is, so it wouldn't surprise me if Busch II was built on top of contaminants as well. Terra Drill and ABNA Engineering were drilling core samples, I assume to figure out exactly what needs to be done for foundations.

Grover wrote:From KMOX:

Ballpark Village On-Track for 2009 All-Star Game



Kevin Killeen Reporting



ST. LOUIS (KMOX News) -- As we near the All Star Break, the Cardinals and city of St. Louis both say Ballpark Village is on schedule to host the big game two years from now.



''The first phase is what we've been focusing on to try to be delivered by the all-star game in two years," says Cardinals Senior Vice President of Business Development Bill Dewitt III. ''That still looks good.'' Phase One includes shops, bars and restaurants of Ballpark Village, but not the living spaces and office towers.



Dewitt also says the private investment and state tax breaks are lining up on schedule and that a general contractor will be named in a month or so. Meantime, St. Louis City Development Director Barb Geisman says the city will issue bonds for the project later this month.



Ground breaking is slated for the early fall.

Umm, ok. I am confused. Will there be something built above the retail in Phase 1, or not? The HOK plan indicates one mixed-use tower, but lately, every time I have heard Phase 1 described in the PD, BJ, or on the radio, it sounds like it will only include retail (as above). Obviously the retail portion will only be a couple of stories tall. If these statements are accurate, then what we are going to unveil to a national audience on July 2009 will basically be a small open-air shopping mall with a couple of large parking garages, and oh yeah, a small park. Impressive!



BTW, the Cordish website still says that BPV will "feature" 1200 residential units, which doesn't seem to jive with the recent media statements and articles. Maybe they simply redrew the boundaries of "Ballpark Village" to include Pointe 400, Cupples, the Marquette, Mansion House, and Gentry's Landing?

I would assume we will have the bases of the buildings, with hopefully tower cranes rising along with towers.



While waiting for power to come back on today I went out and took some pics. I told you they were expanding the lake. You can also see the various spots that have been dug up.

Well, whatever they're doing, at least it looks like they're doing something.

They should still be able to get the fall wheat crop in, and maybe get the pond stocked, as well.

I'll echo the fact that it's nice that they ARE actually finally giving us something to at least speculate about. With all the pent-up energy from pending construction in the veins of the stl forumers, I'm putting in the first prediction for a massive server failure within the first 1/2 hour of Skyhouse, BPV, Roberts Tower, or Cityside actually beggining real construction. Anyone wanna make a line for that...?

jlblues wrote:

Grover wrote:From KMOX:

Ballpark Village On-Track for 2009 All-Star Game



Kevin Killeen Reporting



ST. LOUIS (KMOX News) -- As we near the All Star Break, the Cardinals and city of St. Louis both say Ballpark Village is on schedule to host the big game two years from now.



''The first phase is what we've been focusing on to try to be delivered by the all-star game in two years," says Cardinals Senior Vice President of Business Development Bill Dewitt III. ''That still looks good.'' Phase One includes shops, bars and restaurants of Ballpark Village, but not the living spaces and office towers.



Dewitt also says the private investment and state tax breaks are lining up on schedule and that a general contractor will be named in a month or so. Meantime, St. Louis City Development Director Barb Geisman says the city will issue bonds for the project later this month.



Ground breaking is slated for the early fall.

Umm, ok. I am confused. Will there be something built above the retail in Phase 1, or not? The HOK plan indicates one mixed-use tower, but lately, every time I have heard Phase 1 described in the PD, BJ, or on the radio, it sounds like it will only include retail (as above). Obviously the retail portion will only be a couple of stories tall. If these statements are accurate, then what we are going to unveil to a national audience on July 2009 will basically be a small open-air shopping mall with a couple of large parking garages, and oh yeah, a small park. Impressive!



BTW, the Cordish website still says that BPV will "feature" 1200 residential units, which doesn't seem to jive with the recent media statements and articles. Maybe they simply redrew the boundaries of "Ballpark Village" to include Pointe 400, Cupples, the Marquette, Mansion House, and Gentry's Landing?

I'll also echo that I'm concerned with Cordish's comments. It will be difficult to build those high rises above while keeping all of the retail below it open - my fear is that the high-rises will never be built. That would be an extremely stupid use of this land - this land should demand the tallest towers STL can produce. I can't think of any examples where high-rise towers were being built above retail, and that the retail was actually open during construction. Anyone have any examples to prove me wrong?



Additionally, looking at the renderings I truly only see 3 "high" rises, however there are multiple mid-rises. These mid-rises are not all retail, so if these are built I assumed they would contain office space or condo/rentals. Are we instead looking at a collection of 2-3 story buildings along this site come All-Star game '09? The city better be certain Cordish will go through with the dense design presented if they're offering up tax incentives.

I just hope the workers are taking quinine. That water has been pretty stagnant for an awfully long time.

metzgda wrote:I can't think of any examples where high-rise towers were being built above retail, and that the retail was actually open during construction. Anyone have any examples to prove me wrong?

I have seen many cases where the retail opens before the building is complete. The Bed, Bath & Beyond store in the Grand Plaza Apartments in Chicago (a 57-story building across from Rock Bottom Brewery) opened when the top third of the building was still just bare, open concrete structure. They simply put up a massive scaffold system over the store entrance to catch falling debris, tools, workers, etc.



Offhand, however, I can't think of any projects where an entire high rise building was constructed above an existing and ongoing retail operation, but I am sure it has happened. They built an entire 20+ story hospital above the FDR in Manhattan without shutting down the highway. The thing about national retail chains, however, is that they always expect nothing less than perfection from the lessor and always come armed with a battalion of lawyers. I could easily see Cordish spending much of their time and profits defending themselves against noise, dust, and blocked access complaints. Those lease documents will be very, very long. No way around it, though, this is a very expensive way to develop a project.

metzgda wrote:Offhand, however, I can't think of any projects where an entire high rise building was constructed above an existing and ongoing retail operation, but I am sure it has happened.

Yes, it has. Like right next door to Ballpark Village.



Spanish Pavillion before Marriott built the hotel towers:







Spanish Pavillion after Marriott built the towers: (Now Hilton at the Ballpark)

^^Funny, I thought of the Spanish Pavilion, as well. But, the Pavilion wasn't operating while they built the hotel tower above, was it?

jlblues wrote:^^Funny, I thought of the Spanish Pavilion, as well. But, the Pavilion wasn't operating while they built the hotel tower above, was it?

I don't know either, I wasn't in St. Louis then. But I couldn't resist showing these photos.



I agree with others on here that Cordish would be foolish to delay the towers. How can it be less feasible to start building these towers than Skyhouse and other condo towers going up around the area? They have the land. Maybe Hilton is "encouraging" them somehow to not block their view.

Centene HQ at BPV: Make it happen, St. Louis.

I don't understand why Cordish and the Cardinals are so apprehensive about residential in this project. And the towers would be nice, but why not send one of them sky-high. Make it at least a 50 story building.



And with the ground all smoothed out like it is, it makes the grounds there much nicer. Just add a park and we can say F off to the Chouteau Pond!

trent wrote:I don't understand why Cordish and the Cardinals are so apprehensive about residential in this project. And the towers would be nice, but why not send one of them sky-high. Make it at least a 50 story building.



And with the ground all smoothed out like it is, it makes the grounds there much nicer. Just add a park and we can say F off to the Chouteau Pond!

Maybe...they don't know what they are doing?

I think they'll build plenty of condos, I just think that they want to have a safety net just incase something drastic happens to, as Bastiat said, the housing bubble or the economy. I know a lot of people are worried about this thing, but I'm not one of them. I'm sure something will get built there, and not just anything but I think it will be at least close to the grand scale as originally planned.