urbanSTL

Anyone know fo the results of the BOA meeting this AM?

^Perfected, following discussion.

I happened to pick up a nicely bound development plan for Ballpark Village prepared for the Downtown Economic Stimulus Authority whle I was at the Board Of Adjustment meeting for my internship. Someone left it after the meeting this morning. I'll look through it after I get home from work tonight. If there is anything noteworthy I will let the forum know. It has all the reasons for blighting and lot's of data about the area such as demographics, projeted housing demand,and office demand. All the tax pojections are included as well. The only thing I found to be a little annoying is that they used pictures of damage done to sidewalks and plaza areas from the demolition equipment as blighting conditions. While definitely blighted, the damage was just done last year. I'll get over it, but they should be careful how they do that. And that stuff wasn't the only examples they gave.

I heard on KMOX this morining that one change it the BPV plan is that the pre-sales on residential has to meet some threshold, or they can choose to dump residential altogether and just make all the towers office buildings. Is that correct?



Now that Class A office rents have shot up, probably because of BPV and other developments, Cordish wants to change the plan to grab some of it, it appears.



I can see rich people who love baseball sitting out on balconies watching ballgames from their condos. But what a waste if office buildings full of people who may not even like baseball but are high enough in their company to get a window office get one overlooking the stadium. They can bring in clients from other cities who could care less about the Cardinals and watch a few swings during a break in the supplier contract negotiating. Woohoo.

So far I've had time to skim over the whole 200 or so pages. Some interesting information. I'll give you a little teaser right now, and I'll have much more tomorrow.



The Bowling Hall Of Fame is expected to be within the development and will have dining and "enhanced entertainment options." The Cardinals will of course be building there own museum and experience.



Cordish has agreements for two significant new attractions. One is an interactive family attraction, the other is a new national flagship attraction that is unique to downtown. That is apparently all that can be said at this time.



There will be more than 10 restaurants and bars, with a mix of local and national. Interest is high according to Cordish. There will be 145,000 sq. ft. for restaurants.



There will be 85,000 sq. ft. for nightclub/entertainments venues.



90,000 sq. ft. of retail space, split between boutique and neighborhood shopping. According to Cordish, leasing has been quick for the retail spaces. They are also trying to get retailers to "go vertical" according to the report. The boutiques will mainly be in storefronts between 800 and 1000 sq. ft, "in a classic downtown retail setting." This could be good for our two story Borders that everyone here wants.



That's all for now. I'll have a lot more tomorrow afternoon regarding how they see the market demands for the different components, within Ballpark Village and for downtown overall.

This could be a huge disapointment. Looks like Cordish can opt to have NO residential in Phase I of Ballpark Village. In my eyes that makes this development a 100% failure. It's just another STL Centre in 20 years.



Post Link

Ballpark Village funding plan gets go-ahead for vote

By Jake Wagman

ST. LOUIS POST-DISPATCH

02/08/2007



The old site of Busch Stadium, to be replaced by "Ballpark Village'' in this photo from October of 2006.

(Dawn Majors/P-D)



A reworked proposal for funding Ballpark Village got the green light at City Hall on Wednesday, making the deal eligible for a final vote later this week.



In a string of special meetings, the city's Estimate Board and, later, the Board of Aldermen endorsed the plan, despite warnings from some that the deal was too complex to pass in a hurry.



"The ink is still wet," said Comptroller Darlene Green, who voted against a set of Ballpark Village bills that were fresh off the desk of another committee that was meeting at the same time.



The mayor's office presented changes to the original plan that could shrink the first phase of the project planned next to the new Busch Stadium. The changes would make building condos — once a key part of the proposal — optional. They also would decrease the required amount of retail space by about 10 percent.



But, if the Cardinals and their development partner, Cordish Co. of Baltimore, do indeed build less, their potential tax incentives would fall by as much as $17 million.



There was also a provision added that would require the developers to do more to train and hire city residents, especially minorities, to build and work at Ballpark Village.



Yet for the Cardinals, timing is a key factor.



The team is hoping to open at least part of Ballpark Village by the summer of 2009, when the new stadium will host its first Major League All-Star Game. That almost certainly requires final city approval to come before aldermen begin their two-month spring recess at the end of the week.



The Cardinals and Cordish are seeking up to $115 million in state and local subsidies for the project — taking only, according to city officials, new tax dollars generated by the project itself.



Although aldermen endorsed the proposal by a wide margin, some expressed concern they did not have enough time to go over the thick packets of information that contain the details of the plan.



"So many times we rush into deals, and we end up paying the price at the end," said Alderman Bennice Jones King.



The Ballpark Village bills will be eligible for final approval Friday, the last meeting before the board adjourns for the spring. The project then must go to Jefferson City for state approval.



The Cardinals hope to break ground by the first half of the upcoming baseball season.

The Bowling HOF should team up with Joe Edwards to combine the museum with a Pin-Up Bowl.

The development plan is a public document and is available here from the Board of Aldermen's website.



Be warned, this links directly to a 20 MB PDF file.

I think we all knew it wasn't going to materialize as grandiose as originally planned because it never does.

However...please read the next paragraph before we all get too upset.

But, if the Cardinals and their development partner, Cordish Co. of Baltimore, do indeed build less, their potential tax incentives would fall by as much as $17 million.

That's huge.

Hmm, not such good news.

What the document reflects is the deal the City and the developers were able/willing to put on paper. Those are the guarantees, deadlines, and exchanges that a rifle platoon of lawyers were able to negotiate. Beyond that, what else gets built, what gets built faster, what the final mix is will be determined by the market and the developers.

I cannot believe that they are making the condos optional. How f'in stupid are these people? The real estate market could be in the toilet and condos looking into Busch Stadium would fly off the shelves the first day on the market.



I have a really bad feeling that they are going to f-up this project so when the All-Star game is here in 2009 the BPV won't be complete or won't be something to be 100% proud of.



Idiots.

I think you guys are worrying too much. The market study projects good absorption. I'll get into more details later. Like PE said, what is on paper is the bare minimum. I think the real reason to be allowed to reduce condos is to increase office space. And remember, this is just the first phase

Just letting all know, Ballpark Village is being advertised by Cordish in ULI magazine January 2007 issue. The rendering looks fantastic and similar to all others.



It is also depicted on page 109 and written about in the article: "Entertaining Entertainment Districts" pages 106-109 by David F. Stein.

MattnSTL wrote:I think you guys are worrying too much.

Agreed...they can't throw on a switch and have a thriving, "revitalized" downtown. I would rather see BPV stable and lead to more development in the areas around it than have BPV be the only destination.

I assume they (Cards owners) figure they'll make more money leasing property to businesses as office space, instead of selling condos.

http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/news/s ... enDocument



From the article in the Post:



"The changes to the plan now give Ballpark Village that flexibility, says Bill DeWitt III, the Cardinal's senior vice president for development.



"We're still very, very optimistic about the condo market," DeWitt said. "We are going to be going into some researching about the market to determine the level of interest, particularly of our fan base."



Real estate experts say the changes make sense. Cutting back on the condo portion of the development — or keeping that option open — is simply a "market decision," a response to the overall housing slowdown, said Pat Nasi, principal with Development Dynamics, a consulting firm in O'Fallon, Mo.



Plus the existing demand for downtown residences is also being met through other rehab projects developments already under way, Nasi said.



There are already, according to the city, hundreds of new condos and apartments downtown, and hundreds more in the planning stage."

Sounds like I suggested, nothing to worry about at this time.

St.Louis UAB alumni wrote:I cannot believe that they are making the condos optional. How f'in stupid are these people? The real estate market could be in the toilet and condos looking into Busch Stadium would fly off the shelves the first day on the market.

That's precisely what I was thinking. I've talked with a lot of people (friends, relatives, co-workers, fellow parishioners, strangers at the ballpark, strangers at various watering holes) that would love to live in a highrise condo with a view of the ballpark- and most of them live in the suburbs and probably wouldn't consider city living otherwise.



While the Cardinals and Cordish have much more than anecdotal observation to go on, and the odds are good that we'll still see a significant residential component built before the entire project is complete, I still have a bad feeling about this one...



And I still wonder what the dog-and-pony show on Oct. 27 (hours before the Cardinals World Series victory) was all about? Why announce a deal when there's much more dealing to be done?



I know it's too early to speculate, but I cannot help but worry that in the summer of 2009, we'll have a half-complete and/or half-hearted project. Forget the residential, and it's a repeat of St. Louis Centre and/or Union Station. We cannot afford another blunder of that magnitude.

it's a repeat of St. Louis Centre and/or Union Station. We cannot afford another blunder of that magnitude.

I'm not sure that SLC and US belong in the same analysis.



SLC failed because it was a bad idea, badly managed.



US has been -- remains on -- a pendulum: working sometimes, not others; some parts working much better than others. US is a wonderful bit of rehab, (still) a major draw for visitors, and a mixed retail bag. Had its owners invested more in the 90s and kept pace with retail trends and their market, it might have done better. (Certainly, major investments by Hyatt and Drury kept the US hotels near the top of downtown's occupancy lists.)



The only real solution for SLC was to dismantle it. US -- like its station cousins in a half dozen other cities -- has a lot more options.

I'm wondering how much the drop in residential is because of us getting the All Star game in 2009. I think it may turn out to be a bittersweet situation. Cordish and the Cardinals owners want Ballpark Village built out by All Star game 2009. To do that, they probably won't be able to build a condo tower into the development, simply b/c development of it will not be completed by that timeframe. Everything they say seems to make me think they want it "completed".



Demand may be there, but I'm guessing no residential until after 2009. At that point, it may be too late. We might get six blocks of low and mid rise development.



Sorry to be pessimistic, but I have a bad feeling about this.