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PostApr 24, 2013#526

Do we know how many surface parking spots there will be upon the completion of Phase I? We could do some quick calculations to see whether parking, offices, or residential would create more value.

Plus why would they do all of the other infrastructure and street work if they had no intention of building further or selling pad-ready sites?

Finally, wouldn't additional TIF revenue come from further development of the site. Surface parking lots ultimately don't generate the increment needed to pull in the big TIF dollars.

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PostApr 24, 2013#527

^ I thought it was 1,200 or something. I'm curious about the infrastructure put in place. Without knowing what might be built, how much can be done? I mean, an office tower is going to require excavation a level or two down and different support than a four-story residential building. There's no way all the infrastructure needed to build is being completed.

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PostApr 24, 2013#528

Let's compare numbers for an apartment building vs. surface parking for a given parcel.

I used a model I already had for a dense apartment development on about a half acre site: 91 units with avg rents of about $1,050/month, sufficient paid underground parking, and some commercial space. With typical vacancy and expenses the value of the property comes to about $12.5 million. I didn't have a similar model on hand for office, but I assume it would be in the same ballpark.

If we put surface parking on that site (with assumptions 120 space/acre, $5 daily parking, $25 special event parking, etc. etc.), the value of the site is roughly $2.8 million.

So, clearly the highest value of the property is not parking. The question is... how much does it cost to build the $12.5 million apartment building? $10 million or $15 million? It makes a big difference.

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PostApr 28, 2013#529

To be fair I would think that the highest asset value of almost almost any surface parking lots in the CBD would not be surface parking.

That said not all of those lots are owned by one of the most stable and profitable businesses in the region and one that does not depend on real estate development as its primary revenue source and one that was able to build a revenue enhancing stadium with a promise (or other obligation, at least we think) to build something besides surface parking on the "ballpark village".

I guess what i am saying is that the Cardinals probably prefer to create a +/- $2.8 million parking asset the easy way but I hope that the powers that be (and the community at large) won't let them settle for that.

Heck, to give it some apples to oranges context for what they are going to pay Carpenter and Motte to be injured this year they could build $20+ million worth of apartments building(s) on BPV for cash, own them free and clear and have ongoing rental revenues from them for the next 50 years.

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PostMay 06, 2013#530

I know it's not St. Louis related...but the new renderings of the Wrigley Field renovations have me thinking how they could work for Ballpark Village. I'll gladly take this over the STL Live! currently being constructed.




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PostMay 06, 2013#531

^ I agree - looks great.

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PostMay 07, 2013#532

Possible BPV tenant?

http://www.stltoday.com/business/local/ ... 8e9d8.html

If not BPV, I'm assuming it'll go someplace near the ballpark...is there more room in Cupples?

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PostMay 07, 2013#533

chaifetz10 wrote:Possible BPV tenant?

http://www.stltoday.com/business/local/ ... 8e9d8.html

If not BPV, I'm assuming it'll go someplace near the ballpark...is there more room in Cupples?
Between Hooters and Flying Saucer, I don't know if downtown can support another breasteraunt.

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PostMay 07, 2013#534

Dont think its ever enough of those restaurants for middle age drunk men......and women!!

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PostMay 07, 2013#535

dweebe wrote:Between Hooters and Flying Saucer, I don't know if downtown can support another breasteraunt.
Insert bra support joke here.

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PostMay 07, 2013#536

dweebe wrote:
chaifetz10 wrote:Possible BPV tenant?

http://www.stltoday.com/business/local/ ... 8e9d8.html

If not BPV, I'm assuming it'll go someplace near the ballpark...is there more room in Cupples?
Between Hooters and Flying Saucer, I don't know if downtown can support another breasteraunt.
Don't forget Show-Me's!

Obviously, there's a perfect location for the Tilted Kilt downtown already. What better site for a faux-UK restaurant than a faux-UK building? We know it, we love it...ladies and gentlemen, I give you...923 W. Locust.

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PostMay 07, 2013#537

dweebe wrote:
chaifetz10 wrote:Possible BPV tenant?

http://www.stltoday.com/business/local/ ... 8e9d8.html

If not BPV, I'm assuming it'll go someplace near the ballpark...is there more room in Cupples?
Between Hooters and Flying Saucer, I don't know if downtown can support another breasteraunt.
Is Flying Saucer saucy?

btw, I wonder to what extent Cardinals don't want more bars in the area (including within BPV) to protect their own interests in stadium beer sales and market share for their new bars in BPV.

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PostMay 07, 2013#538

^ Another way to look at it Roger, BPV might be trying pretty hard to get the kilt as part of its mix as the more people then can keep within the footprint for a longer duration instead of crossing the street the happier they will be.

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PostMay 07, 2013#539

roger wyoming II wrote:
dweebe wrote:
chaifetz10 wrote:
Is Flying Saucer saucy?
Only if you count man-boobs.

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PostMay 09, 2013#540

When I've been to Flying Saucer I haven't noticed the waitresses or their outfits, so either they're doing a bad job or I'm completely oblivious. As for Tilted Kilt, I went to the one in St. Chuck with my dad shortly after it opened and I was disgusted. Didn't seem like any of the girls working there were over 17 and I felt uncomfortable with the amount of skin they were showing. (Mind you, I'm under 30).

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PostMay 09, 2013#541

These villages - Cupples Station and BPV - need to land some retail. Bars, breweries and restaurants are fine, but these areas need more attractions and offerings than bars.

Rawlings has Factory Outlet stores. How about the first Rawlings flagship store? A flagship Total Hockey store? Both retailers are St. Louis based. If not them, how about a Dick's Sporting Goods store?


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PostMay 09, 2013#542

Weather.com has an article "America's Most Beautiful Baseball Stadiums" under "family time" section... thumbnail photo is Busch Stadium, so I clicked on it to see. It’s just stock photos of 10 stadiums in no particular order with no descriptions or selection methodology; the first stadium shown is Busch (ironically photos of both new AND old Busch with no differentiation).

Check out their "Family tip":
Check out Ballpark Village, a 30,000 square foot attraction featuring the Cardinals Hall of Fame and Museum, the Cardinals Nation restaurant, and a 40-foot LED screen to watch highlights.
http://www.weather.com/family-kids/fami ... 5?pageno=2

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PostMay 09, 2013#543

arch city wrote:These villages - Cupples Station and BPV - need to land some retail. Bars, breweries and restaurants are fine, but these areas need more attractions and offerings than bars.

Rawlings has Factory Outlet stores. How about the first Rawlings flagship store? A flagship Total Hockey store? Both retailers are St. Louis based. If not them, how about a Dick's Sporting Goods store?


Niketown.

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PostMay 14, 2013#544

Pretty good article from the New York Times.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/15/reale ... .html?_r=0
St. Louis Development Makes a Play for a Home Team Advantage
By JOE GOSE
When the new Busch Stadium opened in 2006, the occasional mudhole along adjacent property symbolized the failure of a planned companion project aimed at revitalizing downtown St. Louis.

The St. Louis Cardinals had proposed the $650 million mixed-use project, known as Ballpark Village, for the 10 acres north of the new stadium. But those grand plans were thwarted by the combination of the financial crisis, the recession and a soft real estate market, making development feasible for only a softball field and a parking lot, leaving bare ground that became the object of widespread ridicule.

By next season’s opening day, however, the Cardinals and their development partner, the Baltimore-based Cordish Companies, hope to open the first phase of Ballpark Village — a $100 million entertainment, restaurant and retail project — just beyond the stadium’s left center field wall.

“I always have said that if we could just get it going, all the heartache would be worth it,” said William O. DeWitt III, president of the Cardinals. “I still feel that way.”

The project has a chance to provide downtown St. Louis with one more reason to cheer outside the ballpark. Population in the urban center has grown to 14,000, from 9,600 in 2005, and apartment occupancy exceeds 90 percent, according to the Partnership for Downtown St. Louis.

In turn, that is spurring more residential and retail development. An affiliate of Spinnaker Real Estate Partners of Norwalk, Conn., for example, has largely completed a $250 million conversion of an old mall and surrounding buildings into an entertainment, retail, residential and hotel district, Mercantile Exchange, that is a 10-minute walk from Busch Stadium.

By taking advantage of the Cardinals as an anchor tenant and creating a buzz with the first phase, Ballpark Village could help encourage additional renewal in the city, said Andrew S. Zimbalist, an economics professor at Smith College in Northampton, Mass., who specializes in economic development and sports economics.

He pointed to Petco Park in San Diego, which helped attract billions of dollars in private investment in the surrounding area over the last few years.

“None of these projects are exactly alike,” Mr. Zimbalist said. “But the general notion is that a sports facility can regenerate economic life in an area if it’s developed properly, put in the right place and has private capital committed to build around it.”

The 100,000-square-foot first phase of Ballpark Village will feature a fresh-air pavilion with a retractable canopy for year-round events.

The retail and restaurant portion is building on St. Louis institutions: the Cardinals, of course, and Budweiser, the signature beer of Anheuser-Busch, part of Belgian-based Anheuser-Busch InBev.

Both organizations will showcase their brands in themed restaurants: Cardinals Nation and Budweiser Brew House. Cardinals Nation will also feature a hall of fame and museum. Additionally, both restaurants will include rooftop decks that look into Busch Stadium.

Creating a development that provided such views was uppermost in the minds of Cardinals officials as they planned the new stadium and Ballpark Village, Mr. DeWitt said.

The vision stemmed from the residential rooftops that overlook Wrigley Field in Chicago, he added, which to him seemed to integrate the stadium into the fabric of the city.

“We wanted that interaction,” said Mr. DeWitt, whose father bought the Cardinals in 1995. “I’ve always been fascinated by having something across the street and creating a window into the ballpark.”

Later phases call for office, residential and hotel development.

The way that the first phase was financed may ensure construction of later phases, said Chase Martin, development director for Cordish, which

has completed entertainment-

oriented and mixed-use projects in Kansas City, Mo.; Louisville, Ky.; Philadelphia; and other markets.

While the city and state approved a plan using new taxes generated at the site to pay for the sewers, utilities and streets needed on the entire 10-acre lot, St. Louis would not guarantee bonds to finance the deal. So the Cardinals and Cordish ultimately decided to buy them, leaving more of the project’s finances in their own hands.

“Obviously, this upfront investment in future phase infrastructure speaks to our confidence in the future of Ballpark Village and the downtown in general,” said Mr. Martin, who is overseeing the project.

How deep that confidence extends to the office market remains to be seen, however. The downtown office vacancy rate, 25.2 percent, and an average lease rate of $15.06 a square foot rank as the worst fundamentals of any St. Louis submarket, said Jeff Kaiser, managing director in the St. Louis office of the brokerage firm CBRE.

“Leasing activity has been pretty stagnant over the past several years — there’s no migration out to the suburbs and no new growth coming in,” he said. “It really doesn’t justify building any new office supply.”

While Mr. Kaiser suggests that future office growth could occur in the financial and technical sectors, for now he’s more bullish on residential development downtown.

Developers have completed $1.6 billion worth of new housing since 1999, according to the Partnership for Downtown, and $168 million is currently in development.

Much of the activity has centered on the conversion of old office buildings into apartments with the help of historic preservation tax credits, Mr. Kaiser said.

Ballpark Village plans include a residential tower that would look into Busch Stadium, and the Cardinals and Cordish officials are keeping a close watch on downtown’s residential market. If it continues to be strong, they acknowledge, construction could begin sooner than anticipated.

Downtown promoters suggest that the baseball team’s admirers alone may provide more than enough demand.

“There are enough passionate St. Louis Cardinals fans in the area that they will pay the money to be there, whether the units are rented or sold as condos,” said Matt Schindler, senior manager of community development with the Partnership for Downtown. “It would do very well.”

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PostMay 14, 2013#545

Too bad the Cardinals and Cordish haven't realize the residential potential.

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PostMay 14, 2013#546

We've been saying it for years now, the residential demand for condos/apartments with a ballpark/Arch view couldn't sell fast enough. The fact that Cordish/Cardinals have not even tried to pre-lease is truly mind boggling. I'd imagine you would see a sea of rich Cardinal fans (in and out of state) buying these things like hotcakes, whether for investment, leisure, or everyday living (not including average Joes that would love to live near the stadium). With residential supply barely meeting demand in the downtown market and the lack of new construction (which opens up a whole new market/demographic) I'd imagine Ballpark Village could pre-lease or sell 100s of units in a matter of months, maybe even weeks. The discussion shouldn't be if Ballpark Village can support a residential tower, the discussion should be how many and how tall. If Ballpark Village started to pre-lease we could find out.

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PostMay 15, 2013#547

If there is no residential and no major employer then BV is going to be empty on the non 82 home games and that is going to look and feel very, very bad.

There is often not enough long-term "civics" boiled into developers plans, only the immediate financial bottomline.

If there will be new no huge tower then commercial/office along the stadium frontage and then two real, actual streets lined with 3-4 story apartments would have been my plan but I guess everyone has their own ideas.

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PostMay 15, 2013#548

ealfotd wrote:When I've been to Flying Saucer I haven't noticed the waitresses or their outfits, so either they're doing a bad job or I'm completely oblivious. As for Tilted Kilt, I went to the one in St. Chuck with my dad shortly after it opened and I was disgusted. Didn't seem like any of the girls working there were over 17 and I felt uncomfortable with the amount of skin they were showing. (Mind you, I'm under 30).
You probably haven't noticed because a majority of the waitresses are neither fit nor attractive.

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PostMay 18, 2013#549


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PostMay 18, 2013#550

Thought it was a poor article - kind if the 50K ft - gee wiz someone's building something in STL treatment. Almost like a PR for Cards.

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