I like all the signs on it but hate all the parking.
I actually think Ballpark Village will be extremely successful with certain demographics (Cardinals and Blues Fans, Families, Tourist, Suburbanites etc.). I also expect to see additional phases faster than what we think. This will also improve people's perception of St. Louis on a national level. When people see night time games with all those neon lights in the background they will assume St. Louis is a vibrant and happening "big city", people are really that impressionable. Perception is reality to the vast majority of people and other stakeholders (citizens, investors, developers, bureaucrats etc.) will want to build on that enthusiasm. This will blow the KC Power and Light District out of the water.
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^ Lots of open spots. Guessing East and West garages aren't fully used either. 
FTR, I don't dislike the building being built.
FTR, I don't dislike the building being built.
Agreed. I'm actually digging the building... lots of interesting elements. Still hoping for residential in a future phase.
That parking isn't for you and I. It's VIP parking, no doubt. Everything about BallPark Village smacks of gratuitous commercialism. Ugh...Anglophile wrote:That sea of parking is just killing me
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The more I see of this place, quite honestly, the more I think I hate it.
All of that godd@mn parking...ugh! Because, you know, there just isn't enough parking in those God-awful Stadium East and Stadium West garages.
And the signs...I hate the signs. Aren't there enough inside and outside the stadium anyway? And don't we have to bow down to our corporate overlords enough already? All of the sponsor signs remind me of the movie Idiocracy, or NASCAR. Nothing but crass commercialism in its most cynical form.
Thankfully the Cardinals owners are much better at running the baseball team than they are at building a mixed-use urban development across the street. Perhaps I wouldn't have such a cynical attitude if this was the bill of goods we were promised in the first place. But we were shown so much more, and we have a right to expect so much more. To me this thing is a failure on so many levels. But I'm sure "Cardinals Nation" will love it, and with that there's always hope for something better on all of that asphalt eventually.
All of that godd@mn parking...ugh! Because, you know, there just isn't enough parking in those God-awful Stadium East and Stadium West garages.
And the signs...I hate the signs. Aren't there enough inside and outside the stadium anyway? And don't we have to bow down to our corporate overlords enough already? All of the sponsor signs remind me of the movie Idiocracy, or NASCAR. Nothing but crass commercialism in its most cynical form.
Thankfully the Cardinals owners are much better at running the baseball team than they are at building a mixed-use urban development across the street. Perhaps I wouldn't have such a cynical attitude if this was the bill of goods we were promised in the first place. But we were shown so much more, and we have a right to expect so much more. To me this thing is a failure on so many levels. But I'm sure "Cardinals Nation" will love it, and with that there's always hope for something better on all of that asphalt eventually.
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^ Right, but I think/hope that this building gets better as things are built around it. Sitting in a sea of parking makes it much worse.
Better than having a 100' setback fronted with a sea of parking...Alex Ihnen wrote:^ Right, but I think/hope that this building gets better as things are built around it. Sitting in a sea of parking makes it much worse.
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Agree, but the main reason they put it up to the sidewalk is to allow for roof-top views into the stadium. That might be the only driver...but it does allow for maximum space to the north and west for future buildings.geoffksu wrote:Better than having a 100' setback fronted with a sea of parking...
I find myself agreeing with you. The thing I really don't like about it is that, to me, it looks like a fancy strip mall. I mean throw a bunch of signs on a newer construction, faux brick strip mall in any suburban community and you'd have this kind of exterior design. I don't know why, but the architecture screams "Walgreens" to me.threeonefour wrote:The more I see of this place, quite honestly, the more I think I hate it.
I love St. Louis and its brick, but I'm over the faux historical. Just like with the stadium, I think this "village" is a missed opportunity to maybe push sports design away from the historical/vintage and into a more modern era.
But, I'm not the target demographic for baseball, so I probably see things differently.
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Right. Hopefully further development actually returns city streets to the superblock.
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I say next BPV development is announced April 22, 2017 and actually completed in scaled-back form in 2023.
It looks like a large TGIF or Buffalo Wild Wings. This would blend in perfectly in the Kirkwood Walmart parking lot.
My fear with development is that its going to feel like the Paddy'O's extension. Just a bunch of concrete and steel with nothing unique or engaging. Places such as Flying Saucer make you want to stay there or visit it any time of the week. I really only feel like going to a Paddy'O's during a after a ball game.
My fear with development is that its going to feel like the Paddy'O's extension. Just a bunch of concrete and steel with nothing unique or engaging. Places such as Flying Saucer make you want to stay there or visit it any time of the week. I really only feel like going to a Paddy'O's during a after a ball game.
Ha! I totally forgot about thatbonwich wrote:It's OK, rawest, I got the joke.
For the rest of you, see also:
http://nextstl.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=9712
The best part of this development is that it will extend a Cardinals experience beyond the 81+ home games a year. I hosted friends up from Georgia on Monday (fam of 5) and a completed BPV would have been a great addition to the stay. We did the Arch, Citygarden, Alumni lunch, Central Library, City Museum, and a Cardinals win (high river eliminated the riverboat cruise option). Also in BPV's corner, had the Cards not been in town, it would've been a good attempt at scratching that itch.
I tell you what, adding a reformed Arch grounds/museum, completed BPV, and repurposed/reinvigorated Union Station to our compact downtown mix, makes a tremendous couple day vacation. Nice weather really helps, too.
I tell you what, adding a reformed Arch grounds/museum, completed BPV, and repurposed/reinvigorated Union Station to our compact downtown mix, makes a tremendous couple day vacation. Nice weather really helps, too.
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Will they sell those seats on top as regular Cardinal baseball seats? Since Clark Street is closed during games, will they extend the ballpark perimeter around BP Village during the game so fans can walk over there? Or do they picture a lot of fans hanging there without going into the stadium during games? Just wondering.
Gate 4, directly across from BPV is an in/out gate. It's where the smokers go.
Target Field in Minneapolis looks cool.olvidarte wrote:I find myself agreeing with you. The thing I really don't like about it is that, to me, it looks like a fancy strip mall. I mean throw a bunch of signs on a newer construction, faux brick strip mall in any suburban community and you'd have this kind of exterior design. I don't know why, but the architecture screams "Walgreens" to me.threeonefour wrote:The more I see of this place, quite honestly, the more I think I hate it.
I love St. Louis and its brick, but I'm over the faux historical. Just like with the stadium, I think this "village" is a missed opportunity to maybe push sports design away from the historical/vintage and into a more modern era.
But, I'm not the target demographic for baseball, so I probably see things differently.
Then again, Target Field also got a ton of public money and cost twice as much as Busch III. Let's not forget that Busch Stadium is one of the least expensive recently built ballparks. You're not going to get a BMW on a Honda budget.
Nowhere near as much as Target Field. As I understand it Hennepin County gave the Twins $400 million scott free for the stadium that cost like $600 to $650 million.Alex Ihnen wrote:^ Busch Stadium got a ton of public money too.
Busch III cost like $330 million and supposedly the Cardinals got like $30 million free along with using county and state bonds to get lower interest rate, but they still have to pay it.
I know if you're against a single penny going to sports venues it seems like a lot. But when compared to other cities we got off pretty cheap for Busch III.
(Didn't we have this argument before?)
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Jeebus. How many signs does this thing need.
Although I despise KC P&L, the street facing retail there looks much, much better than this. Add the H&R Block headquarters and the Sprint Center and P&L blows this out of the water. There is rumored high rise residential coming too.
I just hope some glassy residential is in the future for the remaining blocks.
Although I despise KC P&L, the street facing retail there looks much, much better than this. Add the H&R Block headquarters and the Sprint Center and P&L blows this out of the water. There is rumored high rise residential coming too.
I just hope some glassy residential is in the future for the remaining blocks.
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No one should be surprised about the parking lots. Until more tenants sign on and new buildings are constructed, the remaining lots might as well be used for parking. The only parking lot I'm not wild about is the one adjacent to the Budweiser Beer Garden, which I guess will go all the way to Broadway.
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Yes we did and some seem to continue to believe that a tax the city was receiving and agreed to forgo doesn't count. The tix tax may equal more than $300M over the course of the agreement. Really inconceivable how that isn't included in public support.dweebe wrote:Nowhere near as much as Target Field. As I understand it Hennepin County gave the Twins $400 million scott free for the stadium that cost like $600 to $650 million.Alex Ihnen wrote:^ Busch Stadium got a ton of public money too.
Busch III cost like $330 million and supposedly the Cardinals got like $30 million free along with using county and state bonds to get lower interest rate, but they still have to pay it.
I know if you're against a single penny going to sports venues it seems like a lot. But when compared to other cities we got off pretty cheap for Busch III.
(Didn't we have this argument before?)