urbanSTL

"Williams says phase two will include residential and office space, a hotel, parking and more retail...."

If it really does have all that, I think that would take up more than just the west half. The mention of office also makes one wonder whether there is an anchor tenant... these people don't seem to be the sort to build spec.

STLrainbow wrote:"Williams says phase two will include residential and office space, a hotel, parking and more retail...."

If it really does have all that, I think that would take up more than just the west half. The mention of office also makes one wonder whether there is an anchor tenant... these people don't seem to be the sort to build spec.

That would indicate to me that there may be multiple towers (at least mid rises) also. I know that DeWitt said they were looking to build about 260-290 residential units this phase. If that is in one tower, we may be looking at a 20-something story tower or taller. This may be comparable to what is being built in Clayton, 212 South Meramec is going to be 260 units at 26 floors.

goat314 wrote:

STLrainbow wrote:"Williams says phase two will include residential and office space, a hotel, parking and more retail...."

If it really does have all that, I think that would take up more than just the west half. The mention of office also makes one wonder whether there is an anchor tenant... these people don't seem to be the sort to build spec.

That would indicate to me that there may be multiple towers (at least mid rises) also. I know that DeWitt said they were looking to build about 260-290 residential units this phase. If that is in one tower, we may be looking at a 20-something story tower or taller. This may be comparable to what is being built in Clayton, 212 South Meramec is going to be 260 units at 26 floors.

Bill said a tall thin tower, so I am expecting something to be be wider than the tower at OPOP and probably the same height 300ft at 25 floors or taller.


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kbshapiro wrote:BPV-2 is coming. Should be announced soon. I've seen the (mixed use) site plan on the west half of the property. That's all I'll say as its their project to announce.

Redevelopment of the Mike Shannon's property should be announced by years end as well.

BPV-2 is coming is something we have been told for years. I would be willing to bet we don't see this happen for 5+ years.

Western half will be phase 2. Other remaining land will be later phases.

Well I guess we can look forward to a parking garage with retail and a 15 story tower with hotel and residences then. Maybe another small office mid rise? Maybe it's best not to guess I feel very underwhelmed


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^We'll see (the motto of all things BPV to this point), but it's encouraging to hear that Phase II may have the best possible proximity to Metrolink for the site.

user28 wrote:Well I guess we can look forward to a parking garage with retail and a 15 story tower with hotel and residences then. Maybe another small office mid rise? Maybe it's best not to guess I feel very underwhelmed


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290 residential units, a hotel , office space, and parking would amount to at least one tower over 20 stories in my opinion, especially if it will mostly be in one building. If it is spread over a larger area, I would imagine that would still be multiple mid rise buildings. My guess is that it will have to be tall enough to see into the stadium good.

^^ I think that would all depend on the execution.... the eastern/Broadway half has a smaller footprint so if they aren't ready to "go big or go home," that might be a better place to start than the bigger, Metrolink-adjacent west half. (chriss752, iirc, Billy the Second's mention of a residential "tall, thin tower" was in reference to the small parcel on the southeast corner.)

Otoh, a Phase III could be so far into the future that we'll all be dead. And as goat just said if they deliver that mixed-use variety that will be positive. If they bring anything resembling the One Light block like they developed in KC, it should be at least fairly decent.

STLrainbow wrote:Otoh, a Phase III could be so far into the future that we'll all be dead. And as goat just said if they deliver that mixed-use variety that will be positive. If they bring anything resembling the One Light block like they developed in KC, it should be at least fairly decent.

This is precisely my thinking. Who knows if there will ever be a Phase III and when it would be. If there's going to be a decently sized mixed-use Phase II I'd rather have it be as transit-oriented as possible, and maximizing the utility of Metrolink as soon as possible. Better that than a sea of parking separating Phase II from Metrolink for the foreseeable future.

kbshapiro wrote:BPV-2 is coming. Should be announced soon. I've seen the (mixed use) site plan on the west half of the property. That's all I'll say as its their project to announce.

Redevelopment of the Mike Shannon's property should be announced by years end as well.

When can we expect an announcement?

When you say the west half, what blocks are you referring to? Block 600, block 700, block 100, and block 200?

goat314 wrote:

kbshapiro wrote:BPV-2 is coming. Should be announced soon. I've seen the (mixed use) site plan on the west half of the property. That's all I'll say as its their project to announce.

Redevelopment of the Mike Shannon's property should be announced by years end as well.

When can we expect an announcement?

When you say the west half, what blocks are you referring to? Block 600, block 700, block 100, and block 200?

That would be a great site plan If constructed. However, this plan would mean connecting the 2nd Walnut Street Entrance to the village (or 7th) to Clark with a new road built down the middle of that mega lot.


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Im just praying there is a mixed use building over 350ft, especially at such a highly visible sight. It will be interesting to see what kind of residential it ends up being. I think a tall thin condo tower at the far eastern part of the footprint looking into the stadium would be a no brainer but what do I know.

^ too much to ask for, I know, but I'd love to see a building that has a tip of the cap to the Eagleton Courthouse at 550'... could do it on that western half.

A dream would be several tall, thin towers in varying height between 400-500 ft or taller


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kbshapiro wrote:Redevelopment of the Mike Shannon's property should be announced by years end as well.

Interesting little tidbit there, which as been a somewhat overshadowed by the BPV chatter. I'd LOVE to see residential get introduced to the Gateway Mall mix, but just about anything would improve the current use of that phenomenal site.

If anyone can render what a St. Louis skyline with 400-500 foot buildings in Ballpark Village and a possible high rise at the Ild Mike Shannons would look like from the East, West and South. Please share. I am sure we would all love to see if there were buildings like that South of Market Street.


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Wabash, I'm betting residential downtown along the mall would go for big money.

Is there any word on the uprgades on the garages between Broadway and 7th? Those would be prime for apartments facing south


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In terms of height, I would be fine and probably relieved if we got at least one tower in this phase along the lines of the Cordish One Light tower.... not sure of the exact height but it is 25 stories and 315 units.



Two of those -- one mostly residential and one hotel -- along with a decent corp hq for the west half would make me downright weepy.

The other issue is what kind of retail might this kind of district might attract... I'll be disappointed if it's just more food and beverage. As some folks have said before, I think it would be great if Rawlings got off its butt and did something cool. A Tervis store seems like it would fit in but that's on the small side. A Nike Community Store or Under Armour would be huge but maybe a bit of a stretch. Anyway, hopefully sport-related retail that would be new or at least not oversupplied in the region would be great, along with some basic neighborhood services. (I see the Cordish One Light block has a Kaldi's, GNC, fitness center and nail salon/spa among the retailers, fwiw.)

STLrainbow wrote:In terms of height, I would be fine and probably relieved if we got at least one tower in this phase along the lines of the Cordish One Light tower.... not sure of the exact height but it is 25 stories and 315 units.



Two of those -- one mostly residential and one hotel -- along with a decent corp hq for the west half would make me downright weepy.

The other issue is what kind of retail might this kind of district might attract... I'll be disappointed if it's just more food and beverage. As some folks have said before, I think it would be great if Rawlings got off its butt and did something cool. A Tervis store seems like it would fit in but that's on the small side. A Nike Community Store or Under Armour would be huge but maybe a bit of a stretch. Anyway, hopefully sport-related retail that would be new or at least not oversupplied in the region would be great, along with some basic neighborhood services. (I see the Cordish One Light block has a Kaldi's, GNC, fitness center and nail salon/spa among the retailers, fwiw.)

What I Think would be good down there in Ballpark Village are retail stores that are not found in the Saint Louis area. These stores can be technology and whatever else. An ideal thing for Cordish and the Cardinals to do is only have 1 or 2 more restaurants or bars in the development and all the rest be retail. However, I have a idea which is crazy but here it is, Apple should build a retail store there. All of the Office Buildings and people living and staying down there who need Technology help from Apple don't have to drive to West County or Brentwood. Walkability and things that people want or need must be included here. And Apple is one. Another should be Walgreens or CVS. The nearest Drug Store is over by the old City Hospital or the Culinaria Market. Building one in here would offer residents of downtown a easier place to go when looking for Medicine. Then all of the other stores would be great stores that Downtown needs to draw people down to shop.


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