Ballpark Village

dredger · PostJul 29, 2016#24012016-07-29T20:22+00:00

Believe Clayco was involved in building Busch Stadium, if so I can't help speculating that Bob Clark/Clayco made a play to be part of the original BPY team and DeWitt family went with the hot name of the time in Cordish instead. Complete speculation but that must have stung and Bob Clark with Centene is going to do in Clayton what DeWitt/Cordish haven't pulled off in last ten years and nothing suggest anything different in the foreseeable future

I can't speak for DeWitt Jr. But for life me don't buy the idea that they are happy or satisified or believe the best business plan across the street on the remaining property is to collect parking revenue

IN the meantime, Clayco stating as per the latest PD article

http://www.stltoday.com/business/local/ ... 45df7.html

The first two phases of the project would add a 28-story office tower and a 34-story office tower to downtown Clayton as well as a parking structure with attached apartments or condos, a total investment estimated at $788 million.

The first phase of Centene's expansion could start later this year and include a 28 or 29-story office building with a parking structure. A separate parking and residential structure would be constructed to the east.

The company hopes to start construction on the first office tower and a detached parking garage and residential structure this year, both of which are slated to open by 2018.

St.Louis1764 · PostJul 29, 2016#24022016-07-29T23:19+00:00

Railway Exchange and Jefferson Arms will be redeveloped before 11, 111, 1111 phases of BPV ever come to existence. As optimistic as i am about the further evolution of original Downtown Saint.Louis i no longer hold no faith in this development.
This is simply wasted time and energy on a development that should have had a few other phases completed or near completion.
I hold the Cardinals Organization and Cordish accountable for the lack of effort.
Theres no ambition what so ever.
How can you call this a village when theres only one measly bite size building?
Clayton is fascinating and fortunate.
Downtown virtually has no regional help and seems to be cursed as happy as i am for Clayton with the rather ambitious Centene development it leaves me angry a little sour that none of the major corporations who claim Saint.Louis aren't even much invested in the original city itself.

STLrainbow · PostJul 30, 2016#24032016-07-30T19:21+00:00

symphonicpoet wrote:Believe it or not, we seem to have done about comparably to our peer cities, and quite a lot better than Detroit. Since 1991 we've added four highrises totaling 1488 feet. Detroit has added two at 967. Pittsburgh also has two at 906 feet. Cleveland has added five to six (depending on whether you count 1990 as the ultimate year of the eighties first of the nineties) totaling 2473/2758 (depending) and with another 374 feet scheduled to come on line this year. Cincinnati has five to eight (1990 was a good year) totaling 1976/3074. (Yep. 1990 was a good year for them.) Kansas City, by comparison, boasts eight in the same period with a total height of 2271 feet. Denver has four for a total of 1988. So we're kind of middle of the pack, I think. More new high rise than Detroit or Pittsburgh, but not as much as KC, Clevland, Cincinnati, or Denver. A note: this list does not include construction under 250' or outside of city limits. Clayton would give us another four over 250, totaling an additional 1200 feet. And pushing us up a bit in the pack. Yes. Our distributed downtown syndrome (feature? I actually kind of like it) makes us look shorter than we really are.

I think a couple slender and not terribly tall, but still nice Tower @ OPOP style residential high-rises would be a good start for BPV.... I'll continue to age though while waiting. Also, anyone got height info on some of the new projects under construction in WashU/BJC? Specifically the new office building by the Metrolink and the Children's expansion? Don't think they're 250' plus but not bad.

As for Detroit, I count four towers of 250' buildings built in that post-1990 time frame....

Riverfront Towers: 251'
MotorCity Casino: 273'
Jack Casino: 348'
One Detroit Center: 619'

Another casino and the former Compuware HQ (now Quicken & Meridian Health) were also built last decade and are above 200 but below 250'.

symphonicpoet · PostAug 01, 2016#24042016-08-01T05:43+00:00

^STLrainbow,

I did a quick search on Wikipedia and did some checking on the Skyscraper pages, but something appears to have slipped through the cracks. Most of the Wikipedia lists cut off at 250', but the primary Detroit list cuts off at 300'. Sorry about that. (And KC cuts off at 200. Caught that, but missed the Detroit problem.) You are quite correct. There may well be others. Will check around a bit.

chriss752 · PostAug 17, 2016#24052016-08-17T07:35+00:00

I have a idea on how Ballpark Villages Phase 2 will work.
1. Billy the 3rd said a tall thin residential tower with about 290+/- units. If it's thin and tall and fits in the lot at Broadway/Clark, it could be around 325 feet with 29 floors.
2. A Office Building would be perfectly situated just to the Northwest behind the first phase, or directly behind the Fudgery. Because the size of the lot, I am only betting on an office building as tall as the Hilton East Tower and look like the Greensfelder building across the street.
3. A Hotel parcel would be perfect on the corner of Broadway/Walnut. Offering 2 views. 1 of the stadium, development and Downtown to the South and another of the Arch and the rest of Downtown. But to really have a hotel compete against the Hilton, it should be taller, so about 300 feet tall or taller than the Greensfelder building so guests who pay for the Arch view can see the Arch and not be blocked by a ugly parking garage or a glass building but rather the Arch.
So my guess is that the buildings will range in height from 250-325 feet. Good size and will have a infill look on the skyline South of Market. It would add some balance to the interesting downtown skyline.

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PostAug 17, 2016#24062016-08-17T07:43+00:00

If you want to go beyond the Phase 2 mark and hit the Phase 3 mark. I could see Cordish and Dewitt doing this.
1. For that massive lot, build a 3-5 floor entertainment podium with a movie theater or whatever with street leaves retail and build two high rises on top of it.
A. Would be a Westin Hotel Expansion and would be on the corner of Clark and 8th. And be 250ft and 20floors
B. The Second Tower closest to Busch II Infield should be quite tall and mixed use. It should be double of the Westin at 500ft and have 250ft in the bottom portion as offices and the upper 250ft as Residential so that all Residents have a view of the city and Stadium.
2. The lot on the corner of 8th and Walnut is a perfect place for another tall one. About 450 feet. It would be offices on the lower floors (possible tenant being Spire (Laclede Gas) if they wanted to expand and have the upper floors as Residential over looking the city and Ballpark.
Now why all the height differences in all the buildings. Because that way from inside the stadium, views of the skyline for some of he city's best landmarks will be preserved. While viewing the skyline from across the river will give the sense of a massive infill. While being up in the Arch will still allow the Stadium to be seen with a great compliment next door. And most importantly, up close there is no extra large parking lot.

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PostAug 17, 2016#24072016-08-17T07:47+00:00

I got to visit Nashville and could see what happens if planning is done right. They had three major projects all completed around the same time.
1. A OFFICE BUILDING.
2. A HOTEL
3. A Convention Center.
That revitalized a blighted part of their city. But let's tie that into Saint Louis. We don't need a new Convention Center, but 2/3 of things on the idea board if built could sprawl construction in Downtown unlike anything ever seen! Vacant lots could be built on around the stadium and abandoned buildings like the old Millennium Hotel will reopen along with other reopenings following. This explosion in growth will (in a best case scenario) have companies move in and fill up he new and old office buildings. And then for once, a steady increase in new buildings to help with the increase interest in buildings.
To me it makes sense. What about you guys?

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wabash · PostAug 17, 2016#24082016-08-17T12:37+00:00

I think BPV will continue for a number of years as it currently exists, and that eventually they'll build a parking garage - probably with some ground floor retail facing the rest of the parking lot/"village" area. Perhaps the garage storefronts would connect with the current "village" via some sort of plaza or other open/outdoor space. I could see the possibility of a couple 1-2 story outbuilding bar/restaurants as well - like the Hard Rock or Landry's at Union Station.

whitherSTL · PostAug 17, 2016#24092016-08-17T12:57+00:00

I'm in compete agreement with Wabash. BPV 2016 is BPV 2020. There is no demand for NEW business/residential in DT right now. It's all from CWE to Clayton.

wabash · PostAug 17, 2016#24102016-08-17T13:00+00:00

^I wouldn't go so far as to say that there's no demand for new residential DT. In fact, I think heres rather healthy demand. I just don't think the Cardinals/Cordish have any interest in building it.

whitherSTL · PostAug 17, 2016#24112016-08-17T13:06+00:00

^ Yeah, you could be right. I'm just a believer in demand creates construction. And the cranes in the air I see are from CWE to Clayton. Just my opinion.

jshank83 · PostAug 17, 2016#24122016-08-17T13:38+00:00

There are no cranes building residential downtown because all the residential is rehabbing old buildings. Which there has been a lot of recently. If every building being worked on had a crane over it then there would be a lot of them. CWE didn't have the buildings for it so they are building new. Downtown already had the buildings. Eventually (hopefully) they will start building new as the current buildings fill up. With downtown though you can't base it off cranes at the moment, IMO.

dredger · PostAug 17, 2016#24132016-08-17T14:39+00:00

All comes down to numbers for new construction for which St Louis is more like KC than Nashville in terms of demand IMO. Simply put, KC backed the bonds and took the hit for Cordish new construction. St Louis decided not for good and bad reasons. Want new construction and you might have to give away a 25 year abatement to Koman for just a modest office building next door.

The difference St. Louis has over both Nashville and KC as Jshank83 pointed out is the large amount of building stock already pre-built. Not glamorous, no cranes but you got serious look at Railway and Jeff Arms as well as several boutique hotels which represent a lot of square footage.

whitherSTL · PostAug 17, 2016#24142016-08-17T15:02+00:00

^Understood...So we have to get Railway, Chem, and Jeff Arms renovated!

chriss752 · PostAug 17, 2016#24152016-08-17T18:03+00:00

Those historic buildings are great for residential, hotels and whatever else. That will be great for Downtown. But I do think that Ballpark Village should be built the way I put. If Cupples 10 ever gets under way, that could put pressure on Cordish and Dewitt to announce the second phase. And if the lot next door to the stadium on Broadway is developed, with nothing going on at BPV, then they will look kind of stupid for not building something equal to or Better to those projects.

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STLrainbow · PostAug 17, 2016#24162016-08-17T18:21+00:00

dredger wrote:All comes down to numbers for new construction for which St Louis is more like KC than Nashville in terms of demand IMO. Simply put, KC backed the bonds and took the hit for Cordish new construction. St Louis decided not for good and bad reasons. Want new construction and you might have to give away a 25 year abatement to Koman for just a modest office building next door.

The difference St. Louis has over both Nashville and KC as Jshank83 pointed out is the large amount of building stock already pre-built. Not glamorous, no cranes but you got serious look at Railway and Jeff Arms as well as several boutique hotels which represent a lot of square footage.

that's not quite right... KC did back bonds for the Power & Light entertainment buildings but it is not backing bonds for the mixed-use Cordish "Light" towers. (However, it is giving generous subsidies.) Also, KC like a lot of other peer cities has a nice combo of historic rehab and new construction. We can do it here, too, but we need to get the right combo of interested, capable developers and smart incentives.

matguy70 · PostAug 17, 2016#24172016-08-17T22:22+00:00

I think that for the past 10 years of carpark village - the Cardinals should be ashamed. They sold STL a vision that wasn't anything more than smoke and mirrors to get their new stadium.

chriss752 · PostAug 19, 2016#24182016-08-19T19:53+00:00

Exciting news. I wonder when details will be released. Before December? http://stlouis.cbslocal.com/2016/08/19/ ... ming-soon/

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jshank83 · PostAug 19, 2016#24192016-08-19T20:08+00:00

I will be interested to see how much residential it offers.

joelo · PostAug 19, 2016#24202016-08-19T20:45+00:00

chriss752 wrote:Exciting news. I wonder when details will be released. Before December? http://stlouis.cbslocal.com/2016/08/19/ ... ming-soon/

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It better have a tower! If it's a parking garage, I'm done talking about BPV lol

arch city · PostAug 19, 2016#24212016-08-19T20:55+00:00

I'm cynical when it comes to this project and the Cardinals organization's management of it, but I do trust Otis Williams - so maybe something is brewing.

Still, I'll believe it when it is actually completed. I have to see people along with businesses moving in first.

kbshapiro · PostAug 20, 2016#24222016-08-20T12:08+00:00

BPV-2 is coming. Should be announced soon. I've seen the (mixed use) site plan on the west half of the property. That's all I'll say as its their project to announce.

Redevelopment of the Mike Shannon's property should be announced by years end as well.

chriss752 · PostAug 20, 2016#24232016-08-20T15:30+00:00

kbshapiro wrote:BPV-2 is coming. Should be announced soon. I've seen the (mixed use) site plan on the west half of the property. That's all I'll say as its their project to announce.

Redevelopment of the Mike Shannon's property should be announced by years end as well.

So judging by what you said, the lots to the East and Northeast of the current Phase are not to be built on yet?

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framer · PostAug 20, 2016#24242016-08-20T17:26+00:00

I was expecting the eastern portion to be the first.

Bart Harley Jarvis · PostAug 20, 2016#24252016-08-20T17:44+00:00

chriss752 wrote:
kbshapiro wrote:BPV-2 is coming. Should be announced soon. I've seen the (mixed use) site plan on the west half of the property. That's all I'll say as its their project to announce.

Redevelopment of the Mike Shannon's property should be announced by years end as well.
So judging by what you said, the lots to the East and Northeast of the current Phase are not to be built on yet?

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They said thry have seen the western site plan, doesn't mean there aren't additional plans.

Ballpark Village

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