Downtown L.A. didn't fall as far as our downtown did. I know they are doing some incredible stuff there and also St.Louis doesn't boost that robust significant population such as L.A. so we on the other hand can't be luxurious like our counter parts on the west coast at least not yet. We still have a lot of work to do here before we start seeing more significant construction here.downtown2007 wrote:People first, Target second. It is backwards if it is Target first, people second.
STL should look to LA on how to build a downtown from the ground up. They are doing some kick a** things there.
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Now I see the clueless people downtown have moved on from blaming BPV for sagging business and now are whining about #Ferguson. Fascinating.
http://www.bizjournals.com/stlouis/blog ... l?page=all
http://www.bizjournals.com/stlouis/blog ... l?page=all
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Both effects can't hurt business?roger wyoming II wrote:Now I see the clueless people downtown have moved on from blaming BPV for sagging business and now are whining about #Ferguson. Fascinating.
http://www.bizjournals.com/stlouis/blog ... l?page=all
Wonder why people are scared to go downtown no riot happen there or any thing violent. Wonder how long the effect would last.
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I think certainly BPV hurt business and I don't doubt the #Ferguson unease has to some degree as well, but the problem as I see it is that the decline started before this year and the challenge is much more structural and downtown interests have been very slow to respond.downtown2007 wrote:Both effects can't hurt business?roger wyoming II wrote:Now I see the clueless people downtown have moved on from blaming BPV for sagging business and now are whining about #Ferguson. Fascinating.
http://www.bizjournals.com/stlouis/blog ... l?page=all
The hit from BPV especially wasn't out of the blue and things like the Friday Music nights should have been done long ago and they need to do more; they need to develop an arsenal of activity to keep a spotlight on the area and create a sense of freshness. Work with the motto of "less complaining and more campaigning."
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I am down with more campaigning. I also wouldn't be opposed if some of the old mainstays closed and made way for open storefronts for more creative businesses.
Went to Broadway Oyster Bar last night for dinner. Place was crammed and we had almost an hour wait for a table. On a non-Cardinal game day I've never waited for a table at BOB more than 10 minutes before. After dinner we went to BB's: it was just as busy.
Downtown can survive.
Downtown can survive.
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Black people are scary, and the city is full of black people.True_dope wrote:Wonder why people are scared to go downtown no riot happen there or any thing violent. Wonder how long the effect would last.
I also feel like Broadway Oyster Bar, BB's blues and soups and Beale have gained even more notoriety recently. People love the authentic feel of those bars. I hope they continue to thrive. Now if I could just magically make that entire areas historic, urban fabric reappear...
Or better yet, why doesn't the city planning department come up with a plan to push 2-4 story, tight infill urban development in this area. Let's reconnect soulard to downtown. Rebuild those row houses that used to be there. Historic photos are so cool of this area.
Or better yet, why doesn't the city planning department come up with a plan to push 2-4 story, tight infill urban development in this area. Let's reconnect soulard to downtown. Rebuild those row houses that used to be there. Historic photos are so cool of this area.
Having worked at Purina years back, I always envisioned the whole area filled with townhomes similar to the Eugene Field House plus a couple 4-6 story glass towers. In time I hope.jcity wrote:Or better yet, why doesn't the city planning department come up with a plan to push 2-4 story, tight infill urban development in this area. Let's reconnect soulard to downtown. Rebuild those row houses that used to be there. Historic photos are so cool of this area.
So, if you've spent time at Broadway Oyster Bar, the two railroad bridges are very active. It can drown out conversations or at least make their presence known. We're just not a point where people are willing to live next to a 24/7 rail line. Office is a different matter.
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For some that kind of living arrangement might complete the blues experienceshadrach wrote:So, if you've spent time at Broadway Oyster Bar, the two railroad bridges are very active. It can drown out conversations or at least make their presence known. We're just not a point where people are willing to live next to a 24/7 rail line. Office is a different matter.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S65lJGs7YC8
Yeah, that area is way too filled with ugly parking lots. Once a BP Villiage residential tower gets built and people begin to think it's safer, it would be really cool to put in some 2-3 story historic-looking flats that are more family-oriented. Would attract a lot of young Cardinals fans that work downtown or even in the CWE/Cortex. This could really be a prime area for residential. Call it Ballpark Villiage phase VI or whatever it is at that point.
Might have to change camps from the "Not if but when" back to "not when but if" camp when it comes to the next round of BPV development. I think this thread has done a great job of outlining a history of a development when the developers/owners have money and a prime location locked in that they can literally sit on it for years. The question in my mind now, when will the city cave in and offer to back bonds for Phase II just as KC had done for Cordish?
Sundeckers closed last Tuesday.dweebe wrote:Was recently at an event with a number of bar/restaurant industry people. Talking with some old friends, don't be surprised if this winter is a bloody one for downtown, Landing and Soulard businesses with Ballpark Village to blame. I won't name names but a few significant places won't make it through the winter.
I've got enough Sundeckers and Harpos cups to last me until the end of time.
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My patronage of Sundeckers dropped off quite a bit after Mississippi Nights closed. It was always a good place for a pre or post show drink or bite to eat.
Hopefully a new stadium and other life on the Near North Riverfront will be an impetus to get that spot reopened. Having a deck that overlooks the river should be a draw,
Hopefully a new stadium and other life on the Near North Riverfront will be an impetus to get that spot reopened. Having a deck that overlooks the river should be a draw,
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Cordish was bought out by Omni on the new development in Louisville. It looks like the city actually got a taller building (30 stories now) and more mixed use and residential by the move too. It's still a win for Cordish though as it just furthers Fourth Street Live as a success (in their words).
I haven't heard a lick about any progress on Phase II for a while now. I don't believe it's dead by any means... I just think Cordish is spreading themselves thin (New casino in Philly, Soccer Stadium in Las Vegas, etc). I'll ask around again and see if I can't find out any new info.
I haven't heard a lick about any progress on Phase II for a while now. I don't believe it's dead by any means... I just think Cordish is spreading themselves thin (New casino in Philly, Soccer Stadium in Las Vegas, etc). I'll ask around again and see if I can't find out any new info.
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^ I look forward to your report.... I gotta say with the news that the Crowne Plaza tower is taking a largely residential conversion and leaving 250 fewer rooms that it seems like the opportunity is very ripe for a hotel component at BPV.... along with the closure of the Millennium that is 1,000 rooms that will be offline in the general area. So combine say a 300 room hotel and 300 residential units and you have yourself a nice-sized tower. You could do the same over on the north part of downtown with the Drurys.
I always thought Sundeckers was the go-to place for the underage McKendree crowd.southsidepride wrote:My patronage of Sundeckers dropped off quite a bit after Mississippi Nights closed. It was always a good place for a pre or post show drink or bite to eat. ,
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Kansas City is working on their second residential tower already for Power & Light, fyi. I would be that all four are built within the next 5 years.
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^ I assume that if they fill up and KC continues to subsidize them your correct.... I think we need to take a look at directly subsidizing downtown area residential projects like what cities such as KC and CIncy do; we have such a long way to go downtown.
Franny Slay is a BONEHEAD who needs to be voted out of office.
I could understand the unwillingness to use public subsidies for the BPV development when the economy was in the tank, but now the national and local economies are in much better shape. There's no need to give away the bank, but the issue should be revisited.
Franny Slay needs to revisit allowing public subsidies for Ballpark Village or it's going to continue to be a one-trick pony parking sea for years to come.
I could understand the unwillingness to use public subsidies for the BPV development when the economy was in the tank, but now the national and local economies are in much better shape. There's no need to give away the bank, but the issue should be revisited.
Franny Slay needs to revisit allowing public subsidies for Ballpark Village or it's going to continue to be a one-trick pony parking sea for years to come.
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^ I think what I would do is budget x amount of dollars for residential/mixed-use projects that would further the various TOD plans. Perhaps a separate pool could go to residential production to further good projects in north and south city.
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I think as long as this new NFL stadium proposal is on the horizon, they're probably not going to be talking much about public money for anything else downtown for a while.
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The approved incentives already include a $XX per residential unit incentive. Cordish/Cardinals only need to build the units to receive the residential incentive. Likewise there is an incentive formula for $XX per square foot of office space. You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink.arch city wrote:Franny Slay is a BONEHEAD who needs to be voted out of office.
I could understand the unwillingness to use public subsidies for the BPV development when the economy was in the tank, but now the national and local economies are in much better shape. There's no need to give away the bank, but the issue should be revisited.
Franny Slay needs to revisit allowing public subsidies for Ballpark Village or it's going to continue to be a one-trick pony parking sea for years to come.
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^ do you know what form those incentives are in?