Share
227
Junior MemberJunior Member
227

PostJun 09, 2014#1576

dweebe wrote:
robertn42 wrote:
kbshapiro wrote:My two cents...

1) this is a non-story. Whether in Clayton, downtown, Edwardsville, Chesterfield, etc; when a new "significant" restaurant opens, surrounding restaurants take 15-25 percent hits temporarily. Some regain their previous sales levels, some see a permanent drop. The fact that Paddy Os and Flying Saucer have seen just a 20-25 percent hit when 8 bars/ restaurants open at BPV, I'd consider that a small victory especially during their honeymoon season.

2) Paddy Os is doing a lot more gross sales than they let on in the article. They may have taken a hit from last year but their gross sales numbers are a lot, lot higher. I wouldn't lose any sleep for them.

3) Long term, BPV will help the surrounding Busch Stadium bars and restaurants. It attracts people to downtown all year long, keeps people from getting in their cars at 5pm after work and going to the burbs, keeps people downtown that are here to visit for business or fun versus going to the CWE, Soulard, Clayton, etc.
I 100% agree. This is a complete over-reaction to a very small sample size. Let's check back in at this time next year and see how everyone is doing. The newness will wear off and the business will redistribute back to a more normal level. I do believe that BPV will keep a demographic from the burbs downtown that normally wouldn't have stayed before and after games, but everyone else will go back to their regular spots.

To be sustainable long term BPV needs to add a residential and office component in short order.
I'm sure Paddy O's is still making money because they still draw decent crowds due to all the parking south of the stadium. Plus they still charge damn near inside-the-stadium prices. They're probably complaining because they're not making the mountains of money they did in the last decade.

The place I'm worried about is Flying Saucer.
I'm not. I have been down many times to BVP, Patty O's and Flying Saucer this year. Flying saucer has been packed every time I went in (about 4 times). I asked one bartender how the crowds were since BVP, he said a little less before games but nothing bad. They also have a great lunch time crowd. They are doing just fine as a business.

Patty O's is hurting more. The few times I went there, not busy at all. That outside was built for people, and it is no where close to being full. Maybe they will finally put more into their business model now to compete. Example, have fully stocked bars, better quality beers, drafts, cans that don't cost $5, servers to get you drinks and food.
7,810
Life MemberLife Member
7,810

PostJun 09, 2014#1577

dmelsh wrote:I'm not. I have been down many times to BVP, Patty O's and Flying Saucer this year. Flying saucer has been packed every time I went in (about 4 times). I asked one bartender how the crowds were since BVP, he said a little less before games but nothing bad. They also have a great lunch time crowd. They are doing just fine as a business.

Patty O's is hurting more. The few times I went there, not busy at all. That outside was built for people, and it is no where close to being full. Maybe they will finally put more into their business model now to compete. Example, have fully stocked bars, better quality beers, drafts, cans that don't cost $5, servers to get you drinks and food.
Thanks for the update about about both places.

To be honest I rarely set foot in Paddy O's for a number of reasons. They've really got to look at their pricing. While they might be one of the bars closest to the stadium: it doesn't mean they should be charging stadium prices.
227
Junior MemberJunior Member
227

PostJun 09, 2014#1578

dweebe wrote:
dmelsh wrote:I'm not. I have been down many times to BVP, Patty O's and Flying Saucer this year. Flying saucer has been packed every time I went in (about 4 times). I asked one bartender how the crowds were since BVP, he said a little less before games but nothing bad. They also have a great lunch time crowd. They are doing just fine as a business.

Patty O's is hurting more. The few times I went there, not busy at all. That outside was built for people, and it is no where close to being full. Maybe they will finally put more into their business model now to compete. Example, have fully stocked bars, better quality beers, drafts, cans that don't cost $5, servers to get you drinks and food.
Thanks for the update about about both places.

To be honest I rarely set foot in Paddy O's for a number of reasons. They've really got to look at their pricing and business plans. While they might be one of the bars closest to the stadium: it doesn't mean they should be charging stadium prices.
I agree, Patty O's pricing structure is awful. Now a days its either shuttle over from a Soulard bar, or Metro to 1. Flying Saucer or 2. BVP. I stay away from Patty O's as much as I can.
388
Full MemberFull Member
388

PostJun 09, 2014#1579

I never been to Paddy O's but almost sounds like a rip off... Are the portions of food they serve to patrons justify the pricing ?
118
Junior MemberJunior Member
118

PostJun 10, 2014#1580

To be honest I rarely set foot in Paddy O's for a number of reasons. They've really got to look at their pricing. While they might be one of the bars closest to the stadium: it doesn't mean they should be charging stadium prices.
yeah that was my point. PaddyOs had it so easy for so long, that being forced to be a bit more competitive is great for the consumer and further, it could be a good thing for the area south of the stadium. Now that their easiest way to make a buck is gone, one of the options they may want to look at is to re-invest some of their profits into some projects near their business that will add additional customers and not be solely dependent on the Cardinal traffic, that is now being funneled into BPV.
1,642
Totally AddictedTotally Addicted
1,642

PostJun 10, 2014#1581

Hate to pile on when they're down but oh my Paddy-Os. Talk about a precipitous fall. It's not my style to go there, never been there but I go by it frequently and they used to be packed. Now it's nearly empty. Employees looking around like they just got a concussion. Super weird. Actually, I think there has been a tiny, slight improvement over the last homestand but nothing like it was before and probably never will be again.
7,810
Life MemberLife Member
7,810

PostJun 10, 2014#1582

leeharveyawesome wrote:Hate to pile on when they're down but oh my Paddy-Os. Talk about a precipitous fall. It's not my style to go there, never been there but I go by it frequently and they used to be packed. Now it's nearly empty. Employees looking around like they just got a concussion. Super weird. Actually, I think there has been a tiny, slight improvement over the last homestand but nothing like it was before and probably never will be again.
It's not like BPV came out of nowhere. I was baffled when I saw Paddy O's doing all their additions.
3,235
Life MemberLife Member
3,235

PostJun 10, 2014#1583

Why would the renovations be baffling? They need to upgrade their product to stay competitive. In addition, Hrbosky's closed a few years back creating more demand. Things would probably be worse for them had they not upgraded.
641
Senior MemberSenior Member
641

PostJun 10, 2014#1584

Paddy O's bought Hrabowksy's
7,810
Life MemberLife Member
7,810

PostJun 10, 2014#1585

downtown2007 wrote:Why would the renovations be baffling? They need to upgrade their product to stay competitive. In addition, Hrbosky's closed a few years back creating more demand. Things would probably be worse for them had they not upgraded.
I wasn't baffled with them doing renovations, but the scope/size of what got built. They really went "all in".
1,093
Expert MemberExpert Member
1,093

PostJun 11, 2014#1586

dmelsh wrote:I agree, Patty O's pricing structure is awful. Now a days its either shuttle over from a Soulard bar, or Metro to 1. Flying Saucer or 2. BVP. I stay away from Patty O's as much as I can.
B-P-V. As in "Ballpark Village." Not B-V-P.
1,067
Expert MemberExpert Member
1,067

PostJun 11, 2014#1587

I attended an event at Busch last night and gleaned a few interesting points.

1) Multiple people hailing from the county mentioned that their college age kids have focused on BPV as the new place to hang out, or at least meet for the evening. One has to wonder is this truly generating a new downtown crowd, or just siphoning it away from Wash Ave/Soulard?

2) Dewitt spoke and when I asked about priorities for phase II (as others have posted here) he definitely focused on Clark and Broadway and his hope for residential sooner rather than later. He explained to the room that it is a thin parcel but looks amenable for a residential tower, citing the KC project as a barometer. He says their architects are studying sightlines right now to determine what height creates a compromise for best view of the stadium, minimal blockage of Arch views from inside the stadium, and reasonable expectations for number of units. He said his goal would be for an office tower, however that is obviously much more dependent on local corporate investment. I would have liked a chance to hear more about how they are trying to market the concept to businesses, but the question session was moved through pretty quickly. If CORTEX can get so much interest, it seems at least some of that should bleed into downtown/BPV as it's only a few miles away and nicely situated next to transit. Obviously its not right in the "science" corridor, but hopefully if success is seen among the CORTEX pioneers, other non science based industries will see the benefits and consider a downtown shift. One can hope.
7,810
Life MemberLife Member
7,810

PostJun 11, 2014#1588

sirshankalot wrote:Paddy O's bought Hrabowksy's
As I understand it Hrabowksy's was on the downslide and PaddyO's bought it out cheap at the right time to make sure nobody else took the spot.
103
Junior MemberJunior Member
103

PostJun 11, 2014#1589

^^ addressing your first point about college kids going to BPV. I just graduated from Mizzou and all my hs friends and fraternity brothers are all from west county and st. charles area. While we were at school and it was just opening, i heard one of them say finally st. louis has something cool to go to. This summer even with main st in st. charles, harpos in chesterfield, clayton, and the loop, as closer options everyone seems to want to go to BPV. I think this is mainly cause its new but it also helps that it stays open till 3 and its been fun/busy. It will be interesting to see if this is just a "honeymoon" phase or if it will have staying power especially in the offseason. I guess only time will tell.
5,705
Life MemberLife Member
5,705

PostJun 12, 2014#1590

I cant' help but think that every time DeWitt comments on BPV it sounds if he is the politician not the owner or developer of the fricking place. Maybe I'm taking the comments or language wrong but it is as he has no confidence in his own development. I don't hear him say that the Cardinals "hope" to go the world series.
1,982
Never Logs OffNever Logs Off
1,982

PostJun 12, 2014#1591

dredger wrote:I cant' help but think that every time DeWitt comments on BPV it sounds if he is the politician not the owner or developer of the fricking place. Maybe I'm taking the comments or language wrong but it is as he has no confidence in his own development. I don't hear him say that the Cardinals "hope" to go the world series.
To be honest, the Cardinals traditional approach is that they hope to compete in the division. That's how they tend to phrase it.

That used to piss me off because I thought they should shoot higher. But eventually I realized that baseball can be so flukey, especially if you do make it into the playoffs, that that's the right approach.

That has nothing to do with the real convo, though, lol.
7,810
Life MemberLife Member
7,810

PostJun 13, 2014#1592

Post-Dispatch article.

http://www.stltoday.com/business/local/ ... a6c49.html

Pretty much the same thing as the Biz Journal article.
3,235
Life MemberLife Member
3,235

PostJun 13, 2014#1593

I am getting tired of these articles.
1,067
Expert MemberExpert Member
1,067

PostJun 13, 2014#1594

As long as the project is going to be compared to other Cordish Developments, then some journalism I'd be interested is what was the local competition's response at the 2 month mark in KC, Baltimore and Louisville? Did established businesses take a hit (I would expect so), and more importantly did they survive long term? As someone else stated recently, the initial sway in business seems inevitable while BPV is a novelty and this was hardly an overnight phenomenon that surrounding businesses should have been preparing for.
7,810
Life MemberLife Member
7,810

PostJun 13, 2014#1595

blzhrpmd2 wrote:As long as the project is going to be compared to other Cordish Developments, then some journalism I'd be interested is what was the local competition's response at the 2 month mark in KC, Baltimore and Louisville? Did established businesses take a hit (I would expect so), and more importantly did they survive long term?
Did those places have nearby already existing competition where you can directly point to a business downturn because of the Cordish project opening? At least with KC and Louisville I don't think there was.
blzhrpmd2 wrote: As someone else stated recently, the initial sway in business seems inevitable while BPV is a novelty and this was hardly an overnight phenomenon that surrounding businesses should have been preparing for.
Paddy O's shock and awe over having a sales slide is telling. I think they had a bad case of tunnel vision.
1,067
Expert MemberExpert Member
1,067

PostJun 13, 2014#1596

I have no intimate knowledge of any of those cities, but I would think that there had to be restaurants or bars close enough to the Cordish Developments to at least feel threatened. Maybe not, but the historical investigation seems relevant to the situation. Were the KC and Louisville projects in areas that were that bereft of entertainment?

I find the closing of Harvest worth noting in all of this as the owner states that the new restaurant scene in STL is bloated and saturated leaving competition too steep even for a long time proven local favorite without compensating quality. At what point is our critical mass capable of supporting all of the new developments we have been seeing? Harvest vs regional restaurants is not analagous to the BPV vs other stadium bars competition but it raises some interesting questions.
2,093
Life MemberLife Member
2,093

PostJun 13, 2014#1597

A good friend of mine lives a few blocks from P&L I Kansas City
He was here last weekend and I took him by BPV on our way to The Grove. He mentioned that several bars in that part of downtown KC complained of lack of business after P&L opened. A couple closed down. In his opinion they were bars that should have closed down.

However he noted that his sleepy corner west of downtown got popular a couple years after the Cordish development opened and a few restaurants, bars, and shops opened t accommodate new residential rehab.
He thinks more people realized that nabe was there and ripe for residential and retail development after P&L opened

Every city has a different dynamic but just shows you What can happen in the long run after the initial, admittedly tough for some, changes to the status quo occur.
234
Junior MemberJunior Member
234

PostJun 15, 2014#1598

Quick update: Jamba Juice is now open at Ballpark Village.
7,810
Life MemberLife Member
7,810

PostJun 15, 2014#1599

m2tbone wrote:Quick update: Jamba Juice is now open at Ballpark Village.
That's not going to be good for my wallet.

We almost walked over today from CityGarden to check it out to see if they were open, but instead went the other direction to the downtown Park Ave Coffee.
8,155
Life MemberLife Member
8,155

PostJun 15, 2014#1600

So is it true that the Ted D's only offers the pre-packaged cups?
Read more posts (4056 remaining)
Share