urbanSTL

Does anyone get the impression that BPV has a sort of Potemkin Village quality to it?

Also remember the city wouldn't back the TIF bonds ala Kansas City, and flirtations with Centene and Stifel as office anchors probably added to some delays.

dweebe wrote: -Why build more office space when the AT&T building will soon be sitting completely empty?

I think AT&T is somewhat irrelevant. You need a big corporation to anchor a new office building. If someone is interested they would much prefer a shiny new building in BPV than the 80s era AT&T building which is going to take a ton of money to retrofit and modernize anyway. Even if it was full, the market for speculative office space in downtown doesn't look much better. Either way you need a big player or two to be interested.

arch city wrote:

roger wyoming II wrote:Should have been Rawlings. Losers.

I agree. Rawlings should have been there. Unfortunate. Perhaps Rawlings wasn't willing to pay as much as Majestic.

But doesn't Rawlings have a presence or sign in the stadium?

Actually, I'm not too concerned with Rawlings not being right there. Rawlings should be on the hi-rise office tower still to come.

But I believe we had a poster here say they knew someone who knew the CEO that said they would NEVER consider moving to the city. So that may be a non-starter.

Drove by on Monday heading to the Broadway Oyster Bar, and I thought the village looked pretty damn impressive. No doubt it's going to be packed, at least for awhile. I'm definitely interested in checking out the Fox Sports Midwest Live area. The other spots aren't really my thing. I'll stay local in the neighborhoods.

Did see a bunch of pictures from last nights opening as well as an article on RFT and it looks like it'll be one of the most dudebro-eist places, especially during Cardinals games.

We have 1/8 season tickets 10 games and occasionally eat dinner outside the stadium before a game. But usually inside. If we start eating regularly at BP Village, the big loser will be the food vendors inside the stadium. If we get used to arriving early and eating outside the stadium, we'll probably try other restaurants nearby too. Especially since we found a better place to park off Chestnut vs. Stadium Garage East.

I hear they charge a $10 per head cover charge to everyone entering the complex. Then the individual bars charge their own covers.

What is the subsidy paying for again?

Maybe $15 in cover charges before you buy your first $8 Budweiser?

Good luck with that.

Well nothing is free any ways so we'll all need to pay up wherever we go

I think the city and Cordish should try to get Schnucks to anchor an office building at BPV.
1 It would give Schnucks a lot of free advertisement and they could even have a large sign on the building.
2 I believe Schnucks would at least listen to the idea. They have a store that is doing ok if not great downtown so there not afraid of doing business downtown.

Not the largest office employer in the region but I think they would fit in great downtown.

Northside Neighbor wrote:I hear they charge a $10 per head cover charge to everyone entering the complex. Then the individual bars charge their own covers.

What is the subsidy paying for again?

Maybe $15 in cover charges before you buy your first $8 Budweiser?

Good luck with that.

I'm still unclear if the covers build on each other or not. In any case, it doesn't kick in until 9 PM. And I highly doubt the beers will be ballpark prices. They'll likely be competitive with other restaurants.

I understand why people are disappointed that this is the only development on the large parcel of land.

But I cannot understand why so many people are so eager to rip something that will most likely do very well amongst a new downtown audience.

Im open arms about BPV and i absolutely love the signage gives that part downtown a unique look. They should some signage like that on Wash Ave from Jefferson to the Eads Bridge...As far as Schnucks im not so sure if they be as persuadable as some make think they are busy trying to clean up stores and compete with the new smaller stores like Lucky's Fresh Thyme that are starting to inhibit our region.. As for Culinaria from what one of the managers told me there about 3,000 off from last year in sales so they are doing just about what they were last year.. i just think this very cold winter put a dint or near coffin in most business's..In all i give the first phase a thumbs up and some friends and i are planning on going there to check it out

I love all the new signage, too. I was there for the opening night during the concert, and I'm excited about this place. I was blown away by how many people showed up that night. Before the 9:00 opening, the line stretched all the way down Clark St. to 8th and then all the way down to Walnut, and all of this was while a thunderstorm was approaching. Inside, the place was packed. I was lucky enough to get in before capacity was reached. I'll be visiting Ballpark Village quite often, and I'm excited about the next phases of development.

m2tbone - since you've been there, can you help us to understand the cover charges and beer prices?

Northside Neighbor- It was completely free to get in Thursday night. There were no cover charges. They weren't even charging for parking in their parking lot that night. I parked at a meter on Pine and walked to BPV, but I was surprised to overhear the parking attendant tell people arriving in their lot that parking was free that night.
As for beer prices, I can't answer that for you. I didn't buy anything that night. Perhaps someone else can give further information about that, though. I was there to check out the place, but that proved to be a bit difficult that night due to the amount of people in there. I stayed until the concert was over and then headed home (had to work the next morning). I will definitely be back soon to further explore when it isn't so crowded.

5 bucks a beer. More expensive than most places but expected.

Can get a beer for $2 at the Silver Ball Room. And they have pinball. And Mario.

I can honestly say that I will probably never set foot in that place. I don't see the draw for a local city resident, I have plenty of go to south city bars for sporting events and before games I go to Soulard bars and take the shuttle to the game or MetroLink from lansdowne

I'm happy it's here, I believe it will draw new locals to spend money and become acquainted with city, and I look forward to grabbing a beer at BPV a few times before or after games this summer. From the pictures of friends I've seen, it looks like a cool environment inside.

But if you're not upset that the Cardinals and Cordish are getting upwards of $15 million in public subsidies from the city, much of it the form of TIF and other sales tax gifts, for building this phase, you're not paying attention. Since day the demolition of the old stadium was completed and the Cardinals picked up 10 acres of land next to their stadium, at least this level of development was a sure thing, done deal. The city is giving away much of the financial benefit they are due for this phase, for a restaurant development the Cardinals were going to do anyways. And it's not as if the subsidy package was put together and the city has to live with an agreement they made back at the height of projections for BPV. This deal was made very recently.

It's kind of a slap in the face to all city residents who demand and deserve better services but are told there is no funding.

Cue the people to tell me I'm being negative.

dweebe wrote:

Northside Neighbor wrote:Okay, so two basic questions. One sort of armchair quarterbacking, the other more looking forward.

First, given the huge hoopla surrounding the opening of what is basically a large themed restaurant complex, why did it take more than ten years of waiting to get this off the ground? Everything was in place and ready to go. The Cardinals have been a great team the whole time. There wasn't any question about office or residential market absorption. It's a restaurant complex, basically an extension of the stadium. So why did it take so long to do it?

The Great Recession

Northside Neighbor wrote:Second, okay, so now they are talking still about being "hopeful" to build residential and office additions to BPV. How long do you think it will be before any of that happens?

-Why build more office space when the AT&T building will soon be sitting completely empty?
-Why build a hotel when overall downtown occupancy rates are low?
The residential still baffles me. The Cardinals could spend $100,000 or so putting a sales trailer for a BPV condo tower in the corner of the parking lot and have deposits for half (or more) of the units within a week. My guess is that the DeWitts aren't real estate developers and they're afraid to jump into that deep pool.

Northside Neighbor wrote: How long do you think it will be before any of that happens? Over or under five years before they break ground on Phase 2?

My guess: residential within 2 years
Hotel: within 4 years.
Office: not until after 2020 unless they can get a monster like Enterprise Holdings or Monsanto to be a main tenant.

NN, good questions. And Dweebe, I agree with your responses.

However, I think The Great Recession was a convenient, well-timed excuse for the Cardinals. I remember that the Cardinals announced a completed agreement with the city just before the 2006 World Series win, in late October 2006. I suppose one could argue conditions started to soften in some aspects of the financial sector during 2007 before the big crash in 2008. But it seemed like the Cardinals took their time trying to secure financing for the first phase just before the bottom of the economy fell out. This is simply my opinion, of course. I thought the residential component was always a sure thing. Dweebe, your comments about the Dewitts' reluctance to proceed with residential seems to make the most sense. Because I know people who live in the suburbs and who would be the last people you'd expect to embrace city living- and they'd write a sizable deposit check and jump at the chance to buy a condo with a view of Busch Stadium.

And I am still disappointed with the way in which the city handled the entire matter. Think of the original agreements and how often the goalposts and timetables shifted. How many millions in penalties should the Cardinals have paid by now? The city would double my fines and threaten to sue me if I didn't pay the fine for peeling paint on my garage, and they'd continue to do so until I fixed my garage. But our aldermen didn't hesitate to let the Cardinals off the hook for millions of dollars in fines for their broken promises. Yes, I know I'm comparing apples to apples. And one can easily argue the Cardinals were caught by The Great Recession just like anyone else who tried to borrow money at the time. But here in St. Louis, just as it is in most places, there are rules for the rest of us, and then there are rules for people like the Dewitts. Some of us have to play by the rules, others get to rewrite the rules. That's life, I guess. I know no one said it'd be fair.

I think it's TOTALLY okay to be frustrated with the subsidies given to this development. I think it's fair to be unhappy with the way the Cardinals have handled parts of the process.

But some people are letting those frustrations cloud their judgement of the development itself. A lot of snark about chain bars and restaurants and what not. I think that's silly considering there's a big audience for those places.

If you're willing to admit the development is a good thing to have around but that you're also still frustrated by the way things have happened—well that I can't argue. That's entirely valid, IMO.

I think someone should push for a waiver of the cover fee for city residents because of the public subsidy from the city. First thought would be mayor slay but he doesn't lead.