urbanSTL

. . .Back to Ballpark village news. . .

Yeah, we got off track. Point being that colleges are totally f-cked, although I would still love to see a campus around the size of SLU Law built in BPV anyway. Even if it's only going to be there for 15 years before it closes.

I almost went to BPV last night before getting the text that our plans head changed to elsewhere. However, I was already downtown near it, and it was hopping. I know it's still the new thing, but I genuinely see this being true a lot.

It seemed very bro-y, but there's nothing wrong with that. Everyone needs a place to hang out. Downtown just got a heck of a lot more popular, and I'm super excited about that.

I went there this weekend and my opinion was that a lot of people from out of town and the western burbs will like it but overall I question the longevity without surrounding development. It’s a very mall like and generic development. Most places are not accessible from the outside. It creates very little foot traffic since you hop around from bar to bar without leaving the complex. It’s designed to keep everybody’s money inside the development. It so far has rigid borders instead of actually relating to its surrounding and bleeding into the fabric of downtown.

I am glad it’s finally open and see how it will be an asset to downtown but I will patronize other parts of the city like Wash Ave, CWE, Grove, Soulard, etc for my entertainment needs.

^yep..its not for everyone. and that's the beauty of STL, we can all pick and choose where to spend our dollars.

With BPV open as an entertainment district, I believe Wash Ave needs to refocus on becoming a residential area comprised of lofts and higher-end restaurants/retail with a few bars sprinkled in between. It was heading in this direction 5-7 years ago before it got off track. The type up business the MX is developing should be expanded down the course of the street. BPV will be much better suited for bachelor/bachelorette parties and big "bro-nights out" crowds.

The 2 areas need to complement not compete with each other.

^agreed

downtown2007 wrote:I went there this weekend and my opinion was that a lot of people from out of town and the western burbs will like it but overall I question the longevity without surrounding development. It’s a very mall like and generic development. Most places are not accessible from the outside. It creates very little foot traffic since you hop around from bar to bar without leaving the complex. It’s designed to keep everybody’s money inside the development. It so far has rigid borders instead of actually relating to its surrounding and bleeding into the fabric of downtown.

I am glad it’s finally open and see how it will be an asset to downtown but I will patronize other parts of the city like Wash Ave, CWE, Grove, Soulard, etc for my entertainment needs.

I was there on Friday night. As the type of person who reads this forum I assumed I wouldn't like it that much either.

I really really liked it though. I had a great time. I live in Soulard and usually go out around Soulard or Wash Ave. and this was another area I think that'll be added to the rotation.

One criticism everyone I talked to though agreed on was that they have to use plastic bottles and plastic cups. You can't have people standing above a crowd of other people leaning over a railing and either drop a bottle or throw a bottle and seriously hurt someone. I would not be surprised to see something like that in the next couple weeks.

downtown2007 wrote:I went there this weekend and my opinion was that a lot of people from out of town and the western burbs will like it but overall I question the longevity without surrounding development. It’s a very mall like and generic development. Most places are not accessible from the outside. It creates very little foot traffic since you hop around from bar to bar without leaving the complex. It’s designed to keep everybody’s money inside the development. It so far has rigid borders instead of actually relating to its surrounding and bleeding into the fabric of downtown.

I am glad it’s finally open and see how it will be an asset to downtown but I will patronize other parts of the city like Wash Ave, CWE, Grove, Soulard, etc for my entertainment needs.

I dropped in to see it after the game today and had pretty much these exact same thoughts. People there seemed to be enjoying it, but it looked and felt like being in a small indoor mall with a lot of alcohol. Just from being in there a few minutes (and I'm not sure if this is actually true), it seemed like almost all of the entrances to the different venues could only be accessed once you were inside the complex. If that's true, I think the current ability of BPV to make downtown "feel" more active will be limited because of its limited effect on street life. Maybe that will change in future phases, but this current phase seemed to have the effect of "sucking in" the energy and activity of the baseball crowd rather than building upon the energy to make the immediate vicinity of the stadium feel more active.

All of the venues inside Ballpark Village have outside entrances, too. There are entrances on Clark St. for Budweiser Brew House and Cardinals Nation, and there are entrances for Howl at the Moon and PBR on the other side by Drunken Fish. Lines to all of them were very long yesterday.
I watched the game inside Fox Sports Midwest Live and had a great time. It was better than just watching the game on TV at home. We got to see the between inning events from inside the stadium, such as the Cap Dance and Kiss Cam, so it almost felt like being at the game.

Curious...
How were the crowds at the traditional game day bars, like Paddy O's? Any noticeable difference? I know opening day probably isn't the best gauge.

I went down for opening day and really enjoyed myself.

Is it generic and mall like? Yeah, but it is a party zone for game day. And it does a great job with that. For example, the TV's in the Brew-house show the live feed from the stadium, so you hear everything that they hear in the stadium (including scoreboard stuff like the cap dance, kiss cam etc. No commercials).

The group that I was with, really enjoyed this, because it felt like we were actually at the game. The food at Brew House was tasty and service was good, even though the place was crazy packed.

And yes, each venue, has its own outside entrance.

I think it will do great on game day. I think it will be a hit with tourists who go to the hall of fame museum and grab a bite or drink after. AND I think an occasional city lover will venture in and enjoy it like I did!

In my opinion, the other bars (Mike Shannons) had plenty of people and were still packed during the game. As it was said before, Cities are supposed to have something for everyone, including visitors and suburbanites....

And here is the real shocker. I went in and thought I would HATE the PBR bar, but it was actually a lot of fun. Good music (country, hip hop, rock, etc) and the eye candy was an added plus.

Will BPV, replace my favorite places in the city, no, but I will be back for big games and may even watch the blues Playoffs there...

I've only heard very positive reviews from friends both first hand and via social media.

Bill Dewitt was on 920 CBS sports and said that condos around BPV are next but that they won't be moving fast on those

Knowitall wrote:Bill Dewitt was on 920 CBS sports and said that condos around BPV are next but that they won't be moving fast on those

Big mistake.

Need to get started on those ASAP.

Why is it a mistake?

moorlander wrote:I've only heard very positive reviews from friends both first hand and via social media.

My initial thoughts:

1. The center area with the big screen is pretty cool. Great place to watch any type of sporting event. Should do very well.
2. The Budweiser Brew House and the Cardinals Nation bar/restaurant can probably do well based on 81 home games alone, but that's low hanging fruit. Other than their location next to the stadium on a game day, there's really nothing that would draw me to these venues on a non-game day. Cardinals Nation seems like a more touristy version of Mike Shannons. The upstairs of the Brew House wants to be some sort of high-end club/lounge, which isn't my scene.
3. PBR is interesting. It should do well initially due to curiosity and the dancers wearing ass-less chaps. The bar is actually owned by Cordish and I would not be surprised if every 5-10 years it gets switched out with another Cordish-owned themed bar to keep things fresh.
4. We already have other piano bars in the city so Howl at the Moon is nothing new. However, the best craft beer selection in BPV is found there.

I don't want to be a Debbie Downer, but overall, I do worry that some vacancies will develop unless the rest of BPV gets built relatively soon.

dweebe wrote:[ So they now have the downtown market cornered on drunk bachelorettes parties squealing out "Margaritaville" inbetween their sipping from their foofoo drinks through penis shaped straws.

Ah yes, the highly coveted woo girl demo.

midcoaststl wrote:I went down for opening day and really enjoyed myself.

Is it generic and mall like? Yeah, but it is a party zone for game day. And it does a great job with that. For example, the TV's in the Brew-house show the live feed from the stadium, so you hear everything that they hear in the stadium (including scoreboard stuff like the cap dance, kiss cam etc. No commercials).

The group that I was with, really enjoyed this, because it felt like we were actually at the game. The food at Brew House was tasty and service was good, even though the place was crazy packed.

And yes, each venue, has its own outside entrance.

I think it will do great on game day. I think it will be a hit with tourists who go to the hall of fame museum and grab a bite or drink after. AND I think an occasional city lover will venture in and enjoy it like I did!

In my opinion, the other bars (Mike Shannons) had plenty of people and were still packed during the game. As it was said before, Cities are supposed to have something for everyone, including visitors and suburbanites....

And here is the real shocker. I went in and thought I would HATE the PBR bar, but it was actually a lot of fun. Good music (country, hip hop, rock, etc) and the eye candy was an added plus.

Will BPV, replace my favorite places in the city, no, but I will be back for big games and may even watch the blues Playoffs there...

Yeah I have no doubt it will make money and that tons of people will enjoy it. It sounds like they built in some pretty cool effects for gameday experiences. I'll probably have fun there too when I'm able to grab a drink in there next time.

I'm just saying (for the probably 1000th time someone has noted this on this thread) that it doesn't have greatest urban design to generate active and interesting street life. The venues, in my opinion, are fine for a fan zone. In terms of the urban design though, it wouldn't matter much at all what types of bars/restaurants were in there. It's great that downtown will have more spots for non-urban locals and tourists to enjoy. That doesn't mean the development had to have been non-urban in design though. Hopefully future phases will be more urban in design to maximize that location and the benefit for the city.