urbanSTL

Now that we see what the project is, can anyone explain why it needed tens of millions in subsidy?

It's a giant billboard generating ad revenue; it's a surface parking lot; and it's a restaurant/mall.

What did the subsidy do?

The level of negativity on this thread is amusing and annoying at the same time.

I am a downtown resident and I love all of the neighborhoods in the city. I dig the unique offerings that the city has to offer. AND I actually think BPV is kinda cool!

This is a CITY, which has many different things that appeal to different people. If a suburban person has issues with visiting Wash Ave, The Grove, or anywhere else in the city, but likes BPV, why is this an issue? City loving people will still go to these places and occasionally visit BPV as well.

If it is not your cup of tea, then I don't see how this affects you so much. Simply don't go. Go to where you like...

And the Dress Code is designed to keep this place from turning into a place that no one wants to go.

All I am saying is that I will still go out to eat in the CWE, Soulard, the loop and still have a drink on Wash Ave and in other City hoods, but I may also stop by BPV on gameday, or to watch a Rams game etc... It will be cool.

midcoaststl wrote:The level of negativity on this thread is amusing and annoying at the same time.

I am a downtown resident and I love all of the neighborhoods in the city. I dig the unique offerings that the city has to offer. AND I actually think BPV is kinda cool!

This is a CITY, which has many different things that appeal to different people. If a suburban person has issues with visiting Wash Ave, The Grove, or anywhere else in the city, but likes BPV, why is this an issue? City loving people will still go to these places and occasionally visit BPV as well.

If it is not your cup of tea, then I don't see how this affects you so much. Simply don't go. Go to where you like...

And the Dress Code is designed to keep this place from turning into a place that no one wants to go.

All I am saying is that I will still go out to eat in the CWE, Soulard, the loop and still have a drink on Wash Ave and in other City hoods, but I may also stop by BPV on gameday, or to watch a Rams game etc... It will be cool.

Completely agree with this!

BrickCity4470 wrote:Ummm this isn't any different from KC's P&L district or Cordish's other project's to me im completely fine with it. I really wouldn't want to be around a crying baby after 9pm nor loud kids and who actually want's to see someone's underwear .. It's not hard to show a little class if no one doesn't like it then don't go. I love Washington Ave but Wash Ave has lots of problems cause theres no parental guidance or guidance.. people piss poop fight shoot guns and do whatever they want and its very unattractive and has hurt Wash Ave...

How is Washington ave doing lately anyway? I feel is just kinda dies a little at night west past 14 street.

rawest1 wrote:

seanmcelligott644 wrote:

BrickCity4470 wrote:Ummm this isn't any different from KC's P&L district or Cordish's other project's to me im completely fine with it. I really wouldn't want to be around a crying baby after 9pm nor loud kids and who actually want's to see someone's underwear .. It's not hard to show a little class if no one doesn't like it then don't go. I love Washington Ave but Wash Ave has lots of problems cause theres no parental guidance or guidance.. people piss poop fight shoot guns and do whatever they want and its very unattractive and has hurt Wash Ave...

How is Washington ave doing lately anyway? I feel is just kinda dies a little at night west past 14 street.

It's been a very harsh, cold, quiet winter for Wash Ave, both east and west of 14th. Here's to hoping the vibrancy returns with the warm weather.

I think it will a few weeks ago I was there on a warm late Friday afternoon and it was starting to get crowed.

Northside Neighbor wrote:Now that we see what the project is, can anyone explain why it needed tens of millions in subsidy?

It's a giant billboard generating ad revenue; it's a surface parking lot; and it's a restaurant/mall.

What did the subsidy do?

I've been wondering the exact same thing for a long time. Several years late, and a few highrise buildings short.

I know for me, I don't go down to Wash Ave during the cold winter. I have plenty of places that are close / easier to get to during the winter. However, once warmer weather start, I'm down there every other weekend. I know I lot of people with this mind set too. Just my opinion, it will pick up again in a few weeks.

The dress code for the main section (Fox Sports Midwest Live) has now been relaxed to include hats and jerseys any time. This rule was already waived during any home or road STL sports event, so it was never that big of a deal, but now they're always permitted.

Individual restaurants still have their own code, but that's not abnormal.

So as usual, much adieu about nothing. That said, I still find that "tall tees" ban to be a bit racist in nature, but it's not a particularly hard rule to abide by anyways.

^ if the much adieu compelled them relax the dress code then it wasn't about nothing.

There was a large turnout tonight. Fun to see.

midcoaststl wrote:The level of negativity on this thread is amusing and annoying at the same time.

I am a downtown resident and I love all of the neighborhoods in the city. I dig the unique offerings that the city has to offer. AND I actually think BPV is kinda cool!

This is a CITY, which has many different things that appeal to different people. If a suburban person has issues with visiting Wash Ave, The Grove, or anywhere else in the city, but likes BPV, why is this an issue? City loving people will still go to these places and occasionally visit BPV as well.

If it is not your cup of tea, then I don't see how this affects you so much. Simply don't go. Go to where you like...

And the Dress Code is designed to keep this place from turning into a place that no one wants to go.

All I am saying is that I will still go out to eat in the CWE, Soulard, the loop and still have a drink on Wash Ave and in other City hoods, but I may also stop by BPV on gameday, or to watch a Rams game etc... It will be cool.

You nailed it. This isn't my cup of tea as I much prefer the character of our unique neighborhoods. However, I'd be lying if I told you I wouldn't enjoy grabbing a beer and some food there or watching a game on that obnoxious big screen.

More importantly my friends from the suburbs are VERY excited about the development. BPV will bring people and entertainment dollars to downtown and the city that otherwise wouldn't have come. Think of BPV as a safezone for suburbanites in the city. Right or wrong they are not as comfortable exploring Wash Ave, Cherokee, CWE, Soulard, Layfette Square, South Grand, etc. as most of us on this thread are. This will give them much needed exposure to the city in a place they are comfortable going. I truly believe this is a great addition and I'm all for it.

blzhrpmd2 wrote:I'll look for a better thread about Wash Ave, but my brother's a grad student who worked weekends on Wash Ave the last few years. I learned a lot from him about the nightlife scene down there.

Wanna share?

Okay, so two basic questions. One sort of armchair quarterbacking, the other more looking forward.

First, given the huge hoopla surrounding the opening of what is basically a large themed restaurant complex, why did it take more than ten years of waiting to get this off the ground? Everything was in place and ready to go. The Cardinals have been a great team the whole time. There wasn't any question about office or residential market absorption. It's a restaurant complex, basically an extension of the stadium. So why did it take so long to do it?

Second, okay, so now they are talking still about being "hopeful" to build residential and office additions to BPV. How long do you think it will be before any of that happens? Over or under five years before they break ground on Phase 2?

It took so long to build a restaurant complex, because it took a long time for the Cardinals to sacrifice their initial vision of large mixed use towers. I think there's more good in that notion than people often like to see.

The Cardinals could have built this development at any point, that's true. But this isn't what they really wanted. So they waited and waited hoping they could get off the ground with that.

Eventually they saw that wasn't going to happen and condensed and moved up some of the original plans into what we're getting today. It's not that what opened yesterday needed 10 years to be built. It's that it needed 10 years for the Cardinals and Cordish to come to terms with the idea that they couldn't get more built yet.

^Good points. It wouldn't surprise me to hear more on residential after the season has progress a bit. You think Dewitt likes to look at a parking garage? We all get up in arms about how cool it would to be to see high rises in the outfield. I bet the Cardinals would love to see that too. Who wouldn't? These things take time, especially when they aren't your core business.

And especially when, for some odd reason, our anchor companies are not following the nation-wide trend of relocating into their respective city's CBD from the suburbs.

Our anchor companies are quite comfortable in their suburban environs and, hence...very antiquated.

Another tough note is that the one corporate downtown stalwart, Peabody, has its own issues...it may not even be around in 5 years.

sirshankalot wrote:And especially when, for some odd reason, our anchor companies are not following the nation-wide trend of relocating into their respective city's CBD from the suburbs.

Our anchor companies are quite comfortable in their suburban environs and, hence...very antiquated.

I hold out hope this will change. It is my least favorite thing about St. Louis. I can't wrap my head around it but you are correct, they seem quite comfortable in their suburban digs. If you need proof take a look at the squares of glass RGA is constructing off of Chesterfield Parkway. Sigh.