I don't understand what that means. Are the bars and restaurants the different "venues"?downtown2007 wrote:5 dollar cover charge per venue and 10 for entire site after 9pm per a tweet from biz journal.
I'm curious for clarification on the cover charges as well. Are all covers only after 9pm? Is it 10 to get in and 5 to go anywhere once you're in. If you get in and then go to three bars, are you looking at 25 bucks?
I can't imagine that's quite right, but I'm not sure.
Regardless, rather than be bothered by that, I'll say this: the cover charges will stay or go based on the turnout. If the crowd can support cover charges, so be it. If not, I'm sure they'll do away with it.
I'm not someone that generally likes to pay cover, but for the most part, the establishments in BPV aren't targeted at people like me anyways. The people who I think they are targeted at not only can probably afford the cover, but probably appreciate the affect it will have on the crowd that's there.
Just have to accept that not everything is for everybody.
I can't imagine that's quite right, but I'm not sure.
Regardless, rather than be bothered by that, I'll say this: the cover charges will stay or go based on the turnout. If the crowd can support cover charges, so be it. If not, I'm sure they'll do away with it.
I'm not someone that generally likes to pay cover, but for the most part, the establishments in BPV aren't targeted at people like me anyways. The people who I think they are targeted at not only can probably afford the cover, but probably appreciate the affect it will have on the crowd that's there.
Just have to accept that not everything is for everybody.
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Here is more on the 25 story, 315 unit residential tower that will break ground next month at Power & Light:
http://www.kansascity.com/2014/03/14/48 ... aking.html
Look like its pretty swanky and I could see that doing well in BPV. Of course, KC is backing this with a 25 yr. tax abatement + $7.5 million direct subsidy. They're thinking of doing 3 more and will be starting on the rehab of the existing tower next year. So there potentially could be over 1,200 new units in that part of downtown by the end of the decade.
So I was thinking about whether it might be possible to incentivize residential tower construction at BPV in a reasonable manner.... my thoughts were that perhaps it might be feasible for the City to contribute directly to the construction and financing to a tower(s) in exchange for reinstituting an admissions tax. So for example the City would contribute $7.5 million upfront but get back more from a $1 per ticket admissions tax bringing in about $3 million a year for a period of years (and details could be adjusted according to the project scope). Cards most likely would increase ticket prices slightly to make up for it and gets the up front investment. Does this sound feasible? A good idea to explore as a potential way to speed up development?
http://www.kansascity.com/2014/03/14/48 ... aking.html
Look like its pretty swanky and I could see that doing well in BPV. Of course, KC is backing this with a 25 yr. tax abatement + $7.5 million direct subsidy. They're thinking of doing 3 more and will be starting on the rehab of the existing tower next year. So there potentially could be over 1,200 new units in that part of downtown by the end of the decade.
So I was thinking about whether it might be possible to incentivize residential tower construction at BPV in a reasonable manner.... my thoughts were that perhaps it might be feasible for the City to contribute directly to the construction and financing to a tower(s) in exchange for reinstituting an admissions tax. So for example the City would contribute $7.5 million upfront but get back more from a $1 per ticket admissions tax bringing in about $3 million a year for a period of years (and details could be adjusted according to the project scope). Cards most likely would increase ticket prices slightly to make up for it and gets the up front investment. Does this sound feasible? A good idea to explore as a potential way to speed up development?
^ Expand the Arch Grounds to not only include Lacledes Landing but BPV (think Drury family now getting into the parking garage business in hopes for a new residential tower on the landing) 
I believe you got the tax abatement carrot. In addition, isn't their some more Missouri tax incentives for future BPV phases on top of the ones already given for Phase I - 17 million or so? I don't think their is much more that can be offered outside of backing bonds out right as KC did for P&L at a cost of $12-14 million a year from there general revenues
I believe you got the tax abatement carrot. In addition, isn't their some more Missouri tax incentives for future BPV phases on top of the ones already given for Phase I - 17 million or so? I don't think their is much more that can be offered outside of backing bonds out right as KC did for P&L at a cost of $12-14 million a year from there general revenues
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Is this official? I haven't seen anything other than second hand mentions of this tweet. Stories about the project in the biz journal and PD after I first heard about had no mention of it. And as others have said the details are sketchy. What about other Cordish Live! venues.downtown2007 wrote:5 dollar cover charge per venue and 10 for entire site after 9pm per a tweet from biz journal.
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My understanding is that $10 would allow you access to all of the bars/restaurants without having to be ID'd again, and the cheaper, $5 option is there if you are only planning on visiting one of the bars/restaurants.jstriebel wrote:I'm curious for clarification on the cover charges as well. Are all covers only after 9pm? Is it 10 to get in and 5 to go anywhere once you're in. If you get in and then go to three bars, are you looking at 25 bucks?
I can't imagine that's quite right, but I'm not sure.
Regardless, rather than be bothered by that, I'll say this: the cover charges will stay or go based on the turnout. If the crowd can support cover charges, so be it. If not, I'm sure they'll do away with it.
I'm not someone that generally likes to pay cover, but for the most part, the establishments in BPV aren't targeted at people like me anyways. The people who I think they are targeted at not only can probably afford the cover, but probably appreciate the affect it will have on the crowd that's there.
Just have to accept that not everything is for everybody.
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Why would I pay $10 to go to one of these rigidly formulaic, gimmicky chain bars full of tourists when I could spend less than that and go to one of St. Louis' own, organic venues that will probably be a lot better anyway? I'm not spending money on a cover charge to get in here if I can go somewhere better in the Grove, Midtown, or Cherokee instead. But I guess visitors won't know that, will they? I suppose BPV is -their- experience more than it is our own in a lot of ways.
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Anytime I see obvious tourists in Soulard I always think "Well, there are some people with at least a half-stack of brains".
You really nailed it. Ballpark Village, at least during ball season, will be full of people who want that experience and who are willing to pay for it.Gateway City wrote:Why would I pay $10 to go to one of these rigidly formulaic, gimmicky chain bars full of tourists when I could spend less than that and go to one of St. Louis' own, organic venues that will probably be a lot better anyway? I'm not spending money on a cover charge to get in here if I can go somewhere better in the Grove, Midtown, or Cherokee instead. But I guess visitors won't know that, will they? I suppose BPV is -their- experience more than it is our own in a lot of ways.
It's decidedly not the experience someone like you (or typically me) is looking for, but I think the audience for these places very much exists. And I don't think it's all out of towners and tourists either, unless you consider people from the county (not everyone of course) and further out like St. Charles Co. to be out of towners. A lot of these people will very much enjoy the experience and be willing to pay for it.
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I suppose most of them probably aren't familiar with anything outside of Downtown anyway so it's convenient for them. Besides, lots of folks from St. Charles would probably be too scared to go to the Grove.
That's no doubt true. Lots of folks from St. Charles are too scared to go to Wash Ave, frankly. But they won't be too scared to go to Ballpark Village.Gateway City wrote:I suppose most of them probably aren't familiar with anything outside of Downtown anyway so it's convenient for them. Besides, lots of folks from St. Charles would probably be too scared to go to the Grove.
And that's why I think it will be successful even if it's not a big draw (generally) for me.
The Ballpark Village after 9pm dress codes (codes because they're actually for the establishments within) are getting a lot of negative attention. A bit of it's warranted, most of it is people complaining about whatever they can.
http://blogs.riverfronttimes.com/dailyr ... s_code.php
The tall tees ban feels definitely racist to me. The ban on jerseys and caps (on non-gamedays) seems ignorant. Everything else seems reasonable to me.
But because people like to complain expect to hear how many people would be going out to bars in athletic shorts and sweatpants and what not, as if those are actually illegitimate things to have in a dress code.
http://blogs.riverfronttimes.com/dailyr ... s_code.php
The tall tees ban feels definitely racist to me. The ban on jerseys and caps (on non-gamedays) seems ignorant. Everything else seems reasonable to me.
But because people like to complain expect to hear how many people would be going out to bars in athletic shorts and sweatpants and what not, as if those are actually illegitimate things to have in a dress code.
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Where do they get off? This place isn't the Top of the Met or the St. Louis Club. I'm not going out of my way to take an extra change of clothes with me Downtown just to get into a bull-riding cowboy bar. If they won't let me in because I have a hat on, f-ck 'em. I'll go to a different bar and they can have my money instead. This whole BPV thing is so screwy so far.
You already established you weren't going to BPV, though. You're not their target.Gateway City wrote:Where do they get off? This place isn't the Top of the Met or the St. Louis Club. I'm not going out of my way to take an extra change of clothes with me Downtown just to get into a bull-riding cowboy bar. If they won't let me in because I have a hat on, f-ck 'em. I'll go to a different bar and they can have my money instead. This whole BPV thing is so screwy so far.
Additionally, not all of these places have the same dress code. Also, on gamedays, jerseys are allowed in all places. And I believe only one level of the Budweiser Brew House has the full-time hat ban.
Again, the negative spin on this is a bit much.
How many people that wear sweats after 9 are actually planning on being out at a bar anyways?
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I don't understand why everyone is *****ing. The dress code is designed to keep the riff raff out so that the place doesn't tank. You start seeing shootings and bar brawls in there you can say goodbye to Phase II.
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I can see a no-Cubs jersey and cap ban.... that would be pretty funny if they'd have to turn them in and get loaned Cards gear for their stay. Kinda like a jacket required place.
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roger wyoming II wrote:I can see a no-Cubs jersey and cap ban.... that would be pretty funny if they'd have to turn them in and get loaned Cards gear for their stay. Kinda like a jacket required place.
I can get behind that.
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I agree with most of BPV dress code. I don't want to see people's boxers and wife beaters. Downtown should be casual but with class. I also agree with the curfew I don't want to see some of the youth issues that sometimes happens in the loop or Wash ave happen in BPV. The people BPV wants wound not show if they feel the place has to much riff raft.
Dose any one know if BPV would generate the city any tax revenue in the short term?
Dose any one know if BPV would generate the city any tax revenue in the short term?
There are no ball caps allowed at 360 at the top of the Hilton at the Ballpark, either. You simply take your hat off and get it back once you come back down to the lobby. I don't see the big deal.
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The dress code is already getting criticized nationally.
Yahoo Sports
http://ca.sports.yahoo.com/blogs/mlb-bi ... 51629.html
Minneapolis Star Tribune
http://www.startribune.com/sports/blogs/252511871.html
Deadspin a popular sports satire site has already began to criticize the dress code.
http://deadspin.com/a-proper-dress-code ... 1552244481
http://deadspin.com/new-st-louis-ballpa ... 1552078792
Yahoo Sports
http://ca.sports.yahoo.com/blogs/mlb-bi ... 51629.html
Minneapolis Star Tribune
http://www.startribune.com/sports/blogs/252511871.html
Deadspin a popular sports satire site has already began to criticize the dress code.
http://deadspin.com/a-proper-dress-code ... 1552244481
http://deadspin.com/new-st-louis-ballpa ... 1552078792
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Ummm this isn't any different from KC's P&L district or Cordish's other project's to me im completely fine with it. I really wouldn't want to be around a crying baby after 9pm nor loud kids and who actually want's to see someone's underwear .. It's not hard to show a little class if no one doesn't like it then don't go. I love Washington Ave but Wash Ave has lots of problems cause theres no parental guidance or guidance.. people piss poop fight shoot guns and do whatever they want and its very unattractive and has hurt Wash Ave...
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BingoBrickCity4470 wrote:Ummm this isn't any different from KC's P&L district or Cordish's other project's to me im completely fine with it. I really wouldn't want to be around a crying baby after 9pm nor loud kids and who actually want's to see someone's underwear .. It's not hard to show a little class if no one doesn't like it then don't go. I love Washington Ave but Wash Ave has lots of problems cause theres no parental guidance or guidance.. people piss poop fight shoot guns and do whatever they want and its very unattractive and has hurt Wash Ave...
Pretty much.sirshankalot wrote:BingoBrickCity4470 wrote:Ummm this isn't any different from KC's P&L district or Cordish's other project's to me im completely fine with it. I really wouldn't want to be around a crying baby after 9pm nor loud kids and who actually want's to see someone's underwear .. It's not hard to show a little class if no one doesn't like it then don't go. I love Washington Ave but Wash Ave has lots of problems cause theres no parental guidance or guidance.. people piss poop fight shoot guns and do whatever they want and its very unattractive and has hurt Wash Ave...
This is just your typical pick up someone else's snarky story and snark yourself journalism because that's what people like to read. And it's all overblown.WendellOPruitt wrote:The dress code is already getting criticized nationally.
Aside from a couple of minor issues, I still don't see the dress code as a big deal.