urbanSTL

^ Alot of the young people I know, know very little about the city of St. Louis. They know nothing about the unique neighborhoods and that you can live an urban lifestyle in the St. Louis region. Maybe its because major employers want to be in office parks on 270 and whatever. There is also an obsession with local media to constantly drum up crime, crime, crime and they only "positive" focus is on the Cardinals or being "family friendly", whatever the hell that means. I've heard people say they are moving to Nashville, Indianapolis, or Kansas City etc. because those towns are more vibrant and dynamic. You ask these people if they ever even been to Cherokee street or even the Grove? No! Deepest they've been in the city is probably the Loop and Forest Park obviously. Some don't even go to Washington Avenue, because their parents have been telling them since they were a kid that downtown is dangerous. Honestly, locals that actually spend time in the city and explore end up falling in love with the place. Transplants also seem to love the region way more than locals, especially people from bigger cities, oddly enough. Out of the educated, young people I know, most of the blacks go to Atlanta, DC, Houston, Dallas, other "new South" cities. Most of the whites go to Chicago, Nashville, Portland, Seattle, Austin, Denver etc. Many local leaders also seem to be in denial about the negative impact that Ferguson will have on attracting talent, bottom line is that people view St. Louis as a corrupt, dangerous, slow backwater. If local leadership doesn't think we need a major, image re-branding we are in BIG trouble, I wouldn't be surprised if the MSA shrinks this decade, after years of treading water.

The city need to brand it's self to young people in and out side the region and challenge the old myths. I been in the STL region for almost 4 years now and I have notice a lot of people in the suburbs have fears about going downtown I ran in an individual at work that are scared to go to cards games for crying out load.
I am done watching local tv news in St. Louis it just markets its self as true crime stories with out any news or updates about how the city is up and coming. (BYW is Kmov right wing I get that vib when I watch them?)

KMOV is a right wing fear mongering news station.

downtown2007 wrote:KMOV is a right wing fear mongering news station.

I can't say I've gotten the impression that they're right wing (or left wing), but they definitely seem to sensationalize crime in the city (and north county too, for that matter). They also constantly make incorrect references to downtown and the CWE when describing crimes that occur outside the boundaries of those two areas.

goat314 wrote:^ Alot of the young people I know, know very little about the city of St. Louis. They know nothing about the unique neighborhoods and that you can live an urban lifestyle in the St. Louis region. Maybe its because major employers want to be in office parks on 270 and whatever. There is also an obsession with local media to constantly drum up crime, crime, crime and they only "positive" focus is on the Cardinals or being "family friendly", whatever the hell that means. I've heard people say they are moving to Nashville, Indianapolis, or Kansas City etc. because those towns are more vibrant and dynamic. You ask these people if they ever even been to Cherokee street or even the Grove? No! Deepest they've been in the city is probably the Loop and Forest Park obviously. Some don't even go to Washington Avenue, because their parents have been telling them since they were a kid that downtown is dangerous. Honestly, locals that actually spend time in the city and explore end up falling in love with the place. Transplants also seem to love the region way more than locals, especially people from bigger cities, oddly enough. Out of the educated, young people I know, most of the blacks go to Atlanta, DC, Houston, Dallas, other "new South" cities. Most of the whites go to Chicago, Nashville, Portland, Seattle, Austin, Denver etc. Many local leaders also seem to be in denial about the negative impact that Ferguson will have on attracting talent, bottom line is that people view St. Louis as a corrupt, dangerous, slow backwater. If local leadership doesn't think we need a major, image re-branding we are in BIG trouble, I wouldn't be surprised if the MSA shrinks this decade, after years of treading water.

I 100% agree with this. It is a huge hurdle for us to get over. The perception is not the reality in St. Louis and the local media does us no favors (The crime sensationalism on local TV and it seems like the St Louis Business Journal is waging a war on downtown lately).

St Louis has more character and energy in its neighborhoods than cities its size and many larger ones. I'm tired of the same old shots people from St Louis take at the city. They are lazy and frankly wrong.

It would help if we had a transportation system that was conducive for young people in the county to get to places in the city. A metrolink system that went to the neighborhoods north and south of the Loop, Forest Park, CWE, and the stadiums or Uber that people could use to get around efficiently.

^ more rapid transit certainly would help.

^^ could you elaborate on your comment about the Biz Journal? They give a lot of coverage to downtown obviously, but I don't see any hostile aganda.

It would also help attract millenials if the city actually invested in its downtown. Downtown generates a ton of revenue for the city but gets back very little in return. It basically funds every neighborhood in the city.

People fleeing Illinois?

If StL is going down, I'd love to take Chiraq with us

^Monroe and Clinton being 2 of the 16 growing. Albeit modest gains.

And those gains are at the expense of Madison and St Clair.

Post Dispatch ran a story on Illinois local taxation boards going crazy. The article cited one Chicago exburb home owner having three different township taxing bodies alone which amazes me considering that townships is one form of local government that needed to go away a long time ago. For what it is worth, the comments from Illinois residents were over whelming in favor of getting out of dodge if you can.

St. Louis county has way too many muni's but doesn't sound a whole lot better on Illinois side if it is that bad with townships and other multiple layers of local taxing districts. Anyone with knowledge of this and if it is indeed as bad as the article made it out to be?

shimmy wrote:Not sure where exactly to post this as it has to do with Illinois, but I find it to be relevant for the city, especially for downtown. For years on this board we have lamented the growth of Clayton at the expense of downtown due to Clayton being more central to the metro's population. Due to this, growth on the Illinois side has been welcomed by many on this board because that would help re-establish the city, and downtown in-particular, as the center of the region. Well, that's not going too well. According to Census Bureau estimates, Madison and St. Clair counties have both declined in population.

Madison
2010: 269,282
2014: 266,560

St. Clair
2010: 270,056
2014: 265,729

Source: (http://www.cleveland.com/datacentral/in ... 9276370332)

Only 16 of Illinois' 102 counties are estimated to have gained population.

That's a good point. I would also add that there are big differences between the Illinois communities in the bottoms and on the bluffs. Generally speaking, communities along and near the Mississippi River bottoms like Granite City, East St. Louis, and Cahokia struggle significantly, while communities beyond the bluffs like Edwardsville, Glen Carbon, O'Fallon, Shiloh, Columbia, and Waterloo are quite prosperous. Belleville is literally stuck in the middle. It is losing people after years with a steady population around 45,000. Some West End neighborhoods aren't as nice as they once were, but downtown Belleville is probably in the best shape it's been in the last 25 years or so, there are great community events (Art on the Square, among others) centered on downtown, and the east end has a lot of newer residential and commercial development.

I also wonder how much of a barrier the struggling river communities are to further growth in Illinois. In other words, do the blight in East St. Louis and Granite City limit the appeal of the growing and generally nice communites a few miles east? I don't think that is necessarily the case, but I do hear some Missourians say "I wouldn't want to live 'over there'" even though they are not familiar with nice, growing communities like Edwardsville and Shiloh, or charming small towns like Highland and Waterloo.

That said, even the growing areas in Illinois are slow-growth compared to other states and regions. Bloomington-Normal and Champaign-Urbana have grown gradually but steadily over the years, while Springfield, Quincy, and the Carbondale-Marion area are relatively stagnant, and Decatur and Rockford are really struggling.

I think taxation is a major issue, but even Governor Rauner is going to have a tough time to make ends meet and deliver the tax cuts that people expect. Part of Illinois' problem is the number of entities with taxation power, but I don't see that changing anytime soon since people with political power aren't exactly willing to surrender it all that easily. (See also: City of Saint Louis. At least we'll have fewer aldermen in a few years, though.)

I know I'm wandering off-course and the last sentence in the previous paragraph won't bring me back on topic, but let's just say that I believe a growing Metro East is good news for downtown St. Louis and the region as whole. Unfortunately, and obviously, there seems to be multiple barriers to significant growth east of the Mississippi River.

Agreed. I think there's a balance to be struck between paving the way for growth and preserving the small town character that can be found in so many Metro East communities.

I've long thought that Fairview Heights, Swansea, and/or Shiloh should consider the development of a downtown area, or at least a 'town center' approach like the one in Wildwood that has a mix of New Urbanism with traditional suburban development. The latter two communities are especially well-poised for this type of development with Metrolink stops in their communities. (Fairview Heights has one as well, but it is situated near the western edge of the city limits.)

O'Fallon also has an opportunity to do more with its downtown. Most east-west through traffic passes through town on Old Highway 50, which was built as a two-lane bypass long before I-64 was constructed. This would give O'Fallon a chance to do more with the original Highway 50 alignment that passes through downtown. I suppose the railroad that bisects the downtown adds some character, but it also makes developing a cohesive, urban-scale downtown a bit more difficult. Maybe someday...

If I were to move to the Metro East, I'd look no further than Edwardsville. Even with the sprawl that continues into Glen Carbon toward I-270, and the sprawling SIUE campus, the downtown area is still quite charming, and there are a lot of great local establishments in and around it as well. The housing stock varies in condition, but there is potential all around downtown, and the large, historic homes on St. Louis Street are highly desirable in my opinion.

Even in Edwardsville, O'Fallon, and Shiloh, however, the growth is modest, and obviously not enough to offset the losses elsewhere in St. Clair and Madison counties. Hopefully Illinois as a whole turns the corner so the Metro East (and ultimately, St. Louis) will benefit.

^ If they open up a decent apartment project affiliated with Hofbrauhaus I'm so living there! Haufbrauhauswalk!

Chicagoans fleeing to St. Louis: Census Bureau

Here are the cities that had the highest population of people moving to St. Louis from 2009-2013:
1. Chicago: 5,029
2. Kansas City: 3,001
3. Springfield, Mo.: 1,990
4. Columbia, Mo.: 1,955
5. Dallas: 1,584
6. Washington, D.C.: 1,304
7. Atlanta: 1,022
8. Milwaukee: 927
9. Jefferson City: 868
10. Seattle: 831
And the cities that attracted the most St. Louisans from 2009-2013:
1. Chicago: 3,925
2. Springfield, Mo.: 3,338
3. Kansas City: 3,329
4. Dallas: 1,684
5. Cape Girardeau: 1,645
6. Jefferson City: 1,428
7. New York City: 1,231
8. Los Angeles: 1,222
9. Washington, D.C.: 1,066
10. Indianapolis: 1,052
The highest foreign populations that moved to St. Louis from 2009-2013 are from Asia, with 5,183 people; Europe, with 2,422 people; and Africa, with 383 people.

http://www.bizjournals.com/stlouis/morn ... 1441209640