You’re right, it’s the minority owners that live in west county to blame
It's the stagnant population and rents that don't allow most development deals to pencil.JaneJacobsGhost wrote: ↑Jun 19, 2025You’re right, it’s the minority owners that live in west county to blame
While I agree that the Cardinals/DeWitts haven't done great persay, it's do tend to agree that broader market issues are largely to blame. There's multiple stadium adjacent parking lots that have also not been developed over the last 20 years. The Cardinals are pushing against the wind.whitherSTL wrote: ↑Jun 19, 2025I’m not a DeWitt apologist, but they’re the least of your worries when it comes to downtown development.
If the STL business community was actually supportive of downtown and the city, BPV and plenty more would get developed. The Cardinals are one of the most pro-downtown large businesses as far as I'm aware.
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No, the Millenium proposal revealed that Cordish has been ready to complete BPV for a while and it’s the non-DeWitt ownership that won’t invest.
Pennant Building and 1CW proved the concept and they’d get all the tax breaks they ask for.
DT’s population is not stagnant. It’s one of the fastest growing zip codes in the region.
I have to agree to disagree as I absolutely don't accept that. When Owners of an iconic pro franchise roughly valued at 2.5 billion dollars, attracts +3 million visitors a year and is handed a prime development location, sited clear and all the incentives ready to go should be leading the charge to get more development going downtown. The fact that MO statehouse felt just a little guilty and included/handed the DeWitt's a $100 million for stadium upgrades is an insult.whitherSTL wrote: ↑Jun 19, 2025I’m not a DeWitt apologist, but they’re the least of your worries when it comes to downtown development.
Heck, you could make the argument that when it comes to sports teams it would have been way better for city to see the $100 million go down the street in order to add locker/trainer/admin facilities separate from Blues or towards CVC Dome improvement whether goal is to attract a NBA team and or secure & favor more NCAA tournaments/BattleHawks/large concert & convention events. Speculative on my part, but the outcome is I see is that the $100 million will go toward amenity upgrades in order to encourage fans to spend more in Busch stadium itself. Yes, it might garner some sale tax dollars for city if someone puts down another $20 or so more during game but not a win for downtown for organization that should be a downtown leader.
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Good points but I think what we may forget is DeWitt could have easily pulled an Atlanta Braves rip chord many years ago to Chesterfield Valley or St. Chuck. He didn’t.
^ Correct, he didn't pull out and definitely didn't pull a Stan K/Rams move on the region but that also means he made a decision w plenty of incentives attached and therefore took ownership in staying downtown. I do feel DeWitt under the BPV flag should be a much stronger advocate for downtown, was in a financial position to speculate some extra floors when he built out Class A space and now seems to content on sitting on available incentives instead of proceeding with Cardinal Way Two.. In other words, take ownership
The region as a whole needs population growth and the drivers that accompany it for any significant development to happen. Look at peer metros. Growing metros have growing downtown populations. Stagnant metros don't. Minneapolis, KC, Indy, and Charlotte are good examples.JaneJacobsGhost wrote: ↑Jun 19, 2025No, the Millenium proposal revealed that Cordish has been ready to complete BPV for a while and it’s the non-DeWitt ownership that won’t invest.
Pennant Building and 1CW proved the concept and they’d get all the tax breaks they ask for.
DT’s population is not stagnant. It’s one of the fastest growing zip codes in the region.
You are referring to one off projects with unique circumstances. Fully incentivized sites across the street from the Cardinals stadium. A fully incentivized site that overlooks a federal park with a tourist attraction that brings in millions of people a year.
We need a dozen or more developers actively seeking out and building projects. Not the 3 or 4 four we currently have. Two of which aren't properly positioned or capitalized to pull off more than the one off occasional project here and there.
What people on this forum don't seem to realize is that at scale developers minimize as much risk as they can. Downtown and Downtown West are much riskier when compared to most peer markets. Growing peer markets typically have more data points that allow a developer to confidently identify exactly where rents will land, what their absorption rate will be, what their turnover rate will be, what their exit cap rate will be, just to name a few.
Developers have to raise an insane amount of capital and provide returns. The second they don't, they are out of business. Downtown has One Cardinal Way. It is literally the only data point for new infill multifamily development. Where would you invest 150 million plus dollars ? Probably not St. Louis with options like Minneapolis, KC, Indy, and Charlotte as options, just to name a few.
FYI downtowns population increased from 3700 to 5400 in from 2010 - 2020. Downtown West 3900 in 2010 to 5110 in 2020. Impressive as a percentage not as a whole.
https://www.stlouis-mo.gov/government/d ... isonYear=0
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tl;dr
Cordish moved on the Millenium because ownership was dragging on BPV. Dewitts then immediately announced they wanted to invest in Millenium.
Cordish moved on the Millenium because ownership was dragging on BPV. Dewitts then immediately announced they wanted to invest in Millenium.
Would be cool to see our consumer brands corporate community participate in the next phase of BPV (or other part of DT) . You could have like an AB Experience, a flagship Build-a-Bear store, a Rawlings store and small factory (like a smaller Louisville Slugger experience would be perfect). Maybe Purina and Post could do something too? Idk. Just a thought. Doesn’t seem like corporate America does cool stuff for the sake of being cool anymore. It’s all bean counters now.
Rawlings already chose Westport for their big "experience", passed on BPV because they thought the rent was too high.JaneJacobsGhost wrote: ↑Jun 24, 2025Would be cool to see our consumer brands corporate community participate in the next phase of BPV (or other part of DT) . You could have like an AB Experience, a flagship Build-a-Bear store, a Rawlings store and small factory (like a smaller Louisville Slugger experience would be perfect). Maybe Purina and Post could do something too? Idk. Just a thought. Doesn’t seem like corporate America does cool stuff for the sake of being cool anymore. It’s all bean counters now.
Just can't win when you have businesses making brain dead decisions like that. And they wonder why no one knows Rawlings is STL-based. Would have had tons of free advertising and way more visitors to their store downtown but nope.
Beyond Rawlings, it's a very big joke that no other companies want to move there. Energizer and Emerson apparently passed, Post has one of the saddest headquarters for a F500 company. Yet none of them have any interests apparently in moving to what would be a very good location at BPV.
Build a Bear already has a store at their Union Station headquarters and the entire bar hall is basically an AB Experience.
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The Slugger museum and factory with the big bat is a great attraction, and this Rawlings experience was our chance at that (a big gold glove). BPV is perfectly made for it. Imagine the story right next to the massive WS trophy as you walk up seeing Busch. Would definitely sell a lot more goods. Probably one of the most frustrating outcomes in a while that it went to Westport, rather than on the doorstep of Busch Stadium. Their ribbon cutting ceremony had big Cardinals faces out there promoting it - 30 miles from Busch in what is basically an office center. I can’t get over how big of a miss it was. I’m just hoping they will decide in 10 years to redo it at BPVAuggie wrote: ↑Jun 24, 2025Rawlings already chose Westport for their big "experience", passed on BPV because they thought the rent was too high.JaneJacobsGhost wrote: ↑Jun 24, 2025Would be cool to see our consumer brands corporate community participate in the next phase of BPV (or other part of DT) . You could have like an AB Experience, a flagship Build-a-Bear store, a Rawlings store and small factory (like a smaller Louisville Slugger experience would be perfect). Maybe Purina and Post could do something too? Idk. Just a thought. Doesn’t seem like corporate America does cool stuff for the sake of being cool anymore. It’s all bean counters now.
Just can't win when you have businesses making brain dead decisions like that. And they wonder why no one knows Rawlings is STL-based. Would have had tons of free advertising and way more visitors to their store downtown but nope.
Beyond Rawlings, it's a very big joke that no other companies want to move there. Energizer and Emerson apparently passed, Post has one of the saddest headquarters for a F500 company. Yet none of them have any interests apparently in moving to what would be a very good location at BPV.
Build a Bear already has a store at their Union Station headquarters and the entire bar hall is basically an AB Experience.
Rapsodo is a StL company (they make very advanced golf/baseball/softball simulators). They would be a great company to partner with to install some kind of experience retail at BPV. They could probably come up with something creative that would do well
More developments coming soon? Wonder what their definition of soon is...
Did BPV promised to spend some more advertisement dollar for that piece? Trying to distract attention from another subpar season?
Every time I'm curious to see if there is even a tidbit of news on this thread it is a disappointment. Heck, can't even have a good running banter with everyone on what is happening next on the site is good or not. Because nothing happens.
Every time I'm curious to see if there is even a tidbit of news on this thread it is a disappointment. Heck, can't even have a good running banter with everyone on what is happening next on the site is good or not. Because nothing happens.
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I mean, there's almost certainly going to be a lockout before the 2027 season so they're probably pretty hesitant to spend any kind of capital long-term until the dust settles, poor team performance and overall macroeconomic issues aside.
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Large gold glove coming to top of the Westport tower…This would be so iconic for downtown…I just can’t get over this not being in BPV or by the stadium. This would’ve become another icon in St. Louis for people coming into the city, instead it will be at the top of an office building in Maryland Heights
Shame
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Almost feels like a symbol of the dreadful suburban mentality in this community.delmar2debaliviere2downtown wrote: ↑Nov 05, 2025
Large gold glove coming to top of the Westport tower…This would be so iconic for downtown…I just can’t get over this not being in BPV or by the stadium. This would’ve become another icon in St. Louis for people coming into the city, instead it will be at the top of an office building in Maryland Heights
Shame
Starting to think BPV phase 3 is never going to appear.
https://www.bizjournals.com/stlouis/new ... 2#cxrecs_s
Looks like Arch Apparel will be closing come February, when their lease ends.
The owner says that he is now the only employee and hasn't paid himself in 2 years and that traffic is down to less than 1 person per day. He says coming to BPV was the "worst decision of my life" and that he's "lost everything" because of it.
He blames the Cardinals drop in attendance and the city's bad reputation. The last Cardinals home game, that had an attendance of 29k, had only 1 person come into his store and buy something.
He also says Cordish's sales pitch is misleading and the increase in taxable sales is misleading because much of it is after his business hours and it doesn't guarantee people will come into his store.
All the other Arch Apparel locations have already closed, but he says the online business is doing well.
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I'd be interested to know how Baseballism is doing.
Looks like Arch Apparel will be closing come February, when their lease ends.
The owner says that he is now the only employee and hasn't paid himself in 2 years and that traffic is down to less than 1 person per day. He says coming to BPV was the "worst decision of my life" and that he's "lost everything" because of it.
He blames the Cardinals drop in attendance and the city's bad reputation. The last Cardinals home game, that had an attendance of 29k, had only 1 person come into his store and buy something.
He also says Cordish's sales pitch is misleading and the increase in taxable sales is misleading because much of it is after his business hours and it doesn't guarantee people will come into his store.
All the other Arch Apparel locations have already closed, but he says the online business is doing well.
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I'd be interested to know how Baseballism is doing.
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Outside of game days, there just isn’t a soul down there. And even at that, not enough people hang around downtown before and after games. I didn’t think their Brentwood location was great, but it shows you how dead BPV is unfortunately
I think this is a result of the decline of streetwear in the mainstream, a lackluster product and bad management.Auggie wrote: ↑Nov 14, 2025https://www.bizjournals.com/stlouis/new ... 2#cxrecs_s
Looks like Arch Apparel will be closing come February, when their lease ends.
The owner says that he is now the only employee and hasn't paid himself in 2 years and that traffic is down to less than 1 person per day. He says coming to BPV was the "worst decision of my life" and that he's "lost everything" because of it.
He blames the Cardinals drop in attendance and the city's bad reputation. The last Cardinals home game, that had an attendance of 29k, had only 1 person come into his store and buy something.
He also says Cordish's sales pitch is misleading and the increase in taxable sales is misleading because much of it is after his business hours and it doesn't guarantee people will come into his store.
All the other Arch Apparel locations have already closed, but he says the online business is doing well.
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I'd be interested to know how Baseballism is doing.
There is no reason this company ever needed three separate brick and mortar locations.
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maybe bad management but I see their products worn all around StL
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That’s literally not true. It’s the busiest district in the entire region. Revenue at ballpark village is +25% this year vs last year through June. It’s wild how some of you make definite statements out of thin airdelmar2debaliviere2downtown wrote: ↑Nov 14, 2025Outside of game days, there just isn’t a soul down there. And even at that, not enough people hang around downtown before and after games. I didn’t think their Brentwood location was great, but it shows you how dead BPV is unfortunately
More people will visit BPV on non game days this year than game days
Union Station
2024 33,920,096
2025 35,231,600 +1,311,504 +3.8%
Ballpark Village
2024 22,607,356
2025 28,283,976 +5,676,620 +25%
City Foundry
2024 27,080,367
2025 28,782,948 +1,702,581 +6.2%