These professional sports owners are just a cartel of billionaires, presumably they are engaged in a similar level of criminal activity.
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Let's discuss.
Cordish filed plans for 4 Light in Kansas City recently (293 apartments, 7400sf of in-building retail and 463 parking spaces). Plans were published by the BizJournal the day after Feds cut the interest rates by .5%. I wouldn't be surprised if Cordish, and the Cardinals, have quietly submitted plans to Planning Staff and Alderwoman Spencer for Two Cardinal Way. One Cardinal Way's website shows 28 units available of 297 (90.5%), so there's clearly demand. Only difference is the rents generated at the Light Towers are higher than the rents at One Cardinal Way, but higher rents are justifiable with more things to do in the neighborhood (bigger Ballpark Village and Gateway South means more things to do, which means higher rents are possible).
Either way, I think Cardinals/Cordish would like to get ahead of any potential development at the Millennium Hotel site and build on the success at Ballpark Village. From what I've heard, and shared on my Group a while back, Thompson Coburn was/is looking at a new building at Ballpark Village (or looking into moving into one of Centene's buildings), so that could also be on the horizon. TC moving would vacate space at US Bank Tower on Washington and open it up for a partial hotel conversion (I've seen this scenario mentioned elsewhere, but can't remember where).
Cordish dumped Hord Coplan Macht as the architect of 4 Light (HCM designed One Cardinal Way, Two and Three Light, and One Rangers Way in Arlington). Beyer Blinder Belle of NYC is the new architect of 4 Light. Judging by the design styles of One Cardinal Way, Two Light, and Three Light, it's sort of a safe bet to assume that Two Cardinal Way will probably resemble 4 Light (attached for reference). This isn't a bad thing and a stepped roof would be a good thing to have instead of another sloped roof.
I can imagine taking 4 Light's design and plopping it on the northeast parking lot at Ballpark Village with the stepped design heading west. I doubt Two Cardinal Way meets, or exceeds, the height of One. 25-stories maximum is my guess.
Lastly, it makes sense for Cordish to build an additional phase/building at Ballpark Village simultaneously with 4 Light since it means their team is concentrated on two markets that neighbor each other. Seems smart from an efficiency standpoint.
We'll see what the future holds!
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Cordish filed plans for 4 Light in Kansas City recently (293 apartments, 7400sf of in-building retail and 463 parking spaces). Plans were published by the BizJournal the day after Feds cut the interest rates by .5%. I wouldn't be surprised if Cordish, and the Cardinals, have quietly submitted plans to Planning Staff and Alderwoman Spencer for Two Cardinal Way. One Cardinal Way's website shows 28 units available of 297 (90.5%), so there's clearly demand. Only difference is the rents generated at the Light Towers are higher than the rents at One Cardinal Way, but higher rents are justifiable with more things to do in the neighborhood (bigger Ballpark Village and Gateway South means more things to do, which means higher rents are possible).
Either way, I think Cardinals/Cordish would like to get ahead of any potential development at the Millennium Hotel site and build on the success at Ballpark Village. From what I've heard, and shared on my Group a while back, Thompson Coburn was/is looking at a new building at Ballpark Village (or looking into moving into one of Centene's buildings), so that could also be on the horizon. TC moving would vacate space at US Bank Tower on Washington and open it up for a partial hotel conversion (I've seen this scenario mentioned elsewhere, but can't remember where).
Cordish dumped Hord Coplan Macht as the architect of 4 Light (HCM designed One Cardinal Way, Two and Three Light, and One Rangers Way in Arlington). Beyer Blinder Belle of NYC is the new architect of 4 Light. Judging by the design styles of One Cardinal Way, Two Light, and Three Light, it's sort of a safe bet to assume that Two Cardinal Way will probably resemble 4 Light (attached for reference). This isn't a bad thing and a stepped roof would be a good thing to have instead of another sloped roof.
I can imagine taking 4 Light's design and plopping it on the northeast parking lot at Ballpark Village with the stepped design heading west. I doubt Two Cardinal Way meets, or exceeds, the height of One. 25-stories maximum is my guess.
Lastly, it makes sense for Cordish to build an additional phase/building at Ballpark Village simultaneously with 4 Light since it means their team is concentrated on two markets that neighbor each other. Seems smart from an efficiency standpoint.
We'll see what the future holds!
Still feel like sports betting will be an aspect of the development. Probably in the middle lot. They have to wait until November to find out if that will be a possibility.
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Agree that sports betting could be a huge component on this; would think it'd be centered in the main social building. Also agree that BPV's next phase will definitely get a major kick out of the Key Rate coming in below 5% (thanks Chair Powell!) and that the FOMC's actions will spur multiple developments to initiate in the near future.
I've been aware of an intention to build, held back by economic and market forces, that the plan has been ongoing for years. It wouldn't surprise me to hear that maybe those plans are due to be tweaked by both shifts in demand and by a new architect's participation, yet that the plans for the development's expansion remain as they had already been written by the previous architect. Plus, after the Cards' poor year on the field and in the stands, the franchise needs a shot in the arm. Make it a one-two of sports betting and site buildout.
I've been aware of an intention to build, held back by economic and market forces, that the plan has been ongoing for years. It wouldn't surprise me to hear that maybe those plans are due to be tweaked by both shifts in demand and by a new architect's participation, yet that the plans for the development's expansion remain as they had already been written by the previous architect. Plus, after the Cards' poor year on the field and in the stands, the franchise needs a shot in the arm. Make it a one-two of sports betting and site buildout.
Business Journal reporting that the downtown residential market is struggling some. Apartment vacancies are up to 15% while rents have declined slightly since last year. Might be part of the reason Cordish has held off.
Cordish is irrelevant here, unlike KC. Cordish will go when the Cardinals say go. As we’ve seen, Cardinals are much better served by a measured approach which maintains their leverage.ldai_phs wrote:Business Journal reporting that the downtown residential market is struggling some. Apartment vacancies are up to 15% while rents have declined slightly since last year. Might be part of the reason Cordish has held off.
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thats Q2 2024 data, since last year the market in downtown added 384 units at the Victor and 148 at Spruce at 11th, that will drop occupancy numbers for a while as they lease up. both picked up in Q3, Victor is now around 60% and Spruce and 11th is approaching 60% with majority leased since Q2ldai_phs wrote: ↑Sep 23, 2024Business Journal reporting that the downtown residential market is struggling some. Apartment vacancies are up to 15% while rents have declined slightly since last year. Might be part of the reason Cordish has held off.
Different markets with different market conditions and considerations. Additional phases will be built at Ballpark Village when DeWitt and to a lesser extent Cordish can make sense of it, whatever that means for them. What they are doing in KC or anywhere else does not factor into their decision.
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Part of the holdup seems to be that the Cardinals really desire more office space.
You would typically not exclude. A healthy submarket almost always has some new supply coming on. As downtown population and unit count grows it will have less of an impact. You could separate out active development from stabilized building to get a better idea of a stabilized occupancy.dbInSouthCity wrote: ↑Sep 23, 2024thats Q2 2024 data, since last year the market in downtown added 384 units at the Victor and 148 at Spruce at 11th, that will drop occupancy numbers for a while as they lease up. both picked up in Q3, Victor is now around 60% and Spruce and 11th is approaching 60% with majority leased since Q2ldai_phs wrote: ↑Sep 23, 2024Business Journal reporting that the downtown residential market is struggling some. Apartment vacancies are up to 15% while rents have declined slightly since last year. Might be part of the reason Cordish has held off.
Also, there are alot of buildings in receivership that have absent ownership and very poor occupancy. I have heard as high as 40% of all downtown residential buildings. Paul Brown lofts would be a good example. Those buildings hurt downtowns occupancy and feel and really need to be stabilized. In my opinion, that is downtowns biggest issue at the moment as it related to residential apartments.
For themselves?RockChalkSTL wrote: ↑Sep 23, 2024Part of the holdup seems to be that the Cardinals really desire more office space.
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2CW and another officer tower are designed and ready to go. there were active negotiations for an anchor office tenant but unfortunately it would be downtown to downtown move and not from outside.
Paul Brown is at 70% despite all its issues, i think the feds taking it back and selling is a good step forward.STLAPTS wrote: ↑Sep 23, 2024You would typically not exclude. A healthy submarket almost always has some new supply coming on. As downtown population and unit count grows it will have less of an impact. You could separate out active development from stabilized building to get a better idea of a stabilized occupancy.dbInSouthCity wrote: ↑Sep 23, 2024thats Q2 2024 data, since last year the market in downtown added 384 units at the Victor and 148 at Spruce at 11th, that will drop occupancy numbers for a while as they lease up. both picked up in Q3, Victor is now around 60% and Spruce and 11th is approaching 60% with majority leased since Q2ldai_phs wrote: ↑Sep 23, 2024Business Journal reporting that the downtown residential market is struggling some. Apartment vacancies are up to 15% while rents have declined slightly since last year. Might be part of the reason Cordish has held off.
Also, there are alot of buildings in receivership that have absent ownership and very poor occupancy. I have heard as high as 40% of all downtown residential buildings. Paul Brown lofts would be a good example. Those buildings hurt downtowns occupancy and feel and really need to be stabilized. In my opinion, that is downtowns biggest issue at the moment as it related to residential apartments.
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Amendment 2 has a lot to do with how big these plans will be…As long as it passes, and I think it will, next phase of BPV will get up and running and be quite the investment.
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Quite frankly, I can't see Amendment 2 not passing. Both candidates for governor, Kehoe and Quade, want it to pass.
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Sports betting will have no impact, if anything it’s just back filling all the money cards are losing with the Ballys sports haircut they had to take with the tv deal.
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I’ll just be happy when the next phase finally starts moving dirt & seeing a few cranes in our skyline.
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Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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I’m not a sports gambler but I’m surprised you are against this. Why let the money go across the river? Young people are interested in going to venues where they can do this. It will make Ballpark Village much more popular. I’ve even wondered why MLB hasn’t been more proactive and let people bet throughout the game on innings/at bats in the stadium in some type of dedicated club section or similar. Baseball is the perfect sport for betting on smaller game events.dbInSouthCity wrote: ↑Sep 23, 2024Sports betting will have no impact, if anything it’s just back filling all the money cards are losing with the Ballys sports haircut they had to take with the tv deal.
And it absolutely has impact on the future phases of the development…that’s all I’m going to say.
You can bet on that stuff at the game on your phone if it’s legal in the state. You can just do it from your seat so I don’t know if they need to use space on a club.delmar2debaliviere2downtown wrote: ↑Sep 27, 2024I’m not a sports gambler but I’m surprised you are against this. Why let the money go across the river? Young people are interested in going to venues where they can do this. It will make Ballpark Village much more popular. I’ve even wondered why MLB hasn’t been more proactive and let people bet throughout the game on innings/at bats in the stadium in some type of dedicated club section or similar. Baseball is the perfect sport for betting on smaller game events.dbInSouthCity wrote: ↑Sep 23, 2024Sports betting will have no impact, if anything it’s just back filling all the money cards are losing with the Ballys sports haircut they had to take with the tv deal.
And it absolutely has impact on the future phases of the development…that’s all I’m going to say.
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You can do the same thing at the horse track, but people go for the experience. DraftKings put a sports betting annex onto Wrigley for a reason. People could bet at home but gambling is an entertainment activity. Vegas still lives on for a reason. The Cardinals could definitely sell a 703 type club experience to people who want to have a game experience where they can bet on props throughout the game in person.jshank83 wrote: ↑Sep 27, 2024You can bet on that stuff at the game on your phone if it’s legal in the state. You can just do it from your seat so I don’t know if they need to use space on a club.delmar2debaliviere2downtown wrote: ↑Sep 27, 2024I’m not a sports gambler but I’m surprised you are against this. Why let the money go across the river? Young people are interested in going to venues where they can do this. It will make Ballpark Village much more popular. I’ve even wondered why MLB hasn’t been more proactive and let people bet throughout the game on innings/at bats in the stadium in some type of dedicated club section or similar. Baseball is the perfect sport for betting on smaller game events.dbInSouthCity wrote: ↑Sep 23, 2024Sports betting will have no impact, if anything it’s just back filling all the money cards are losing with the Ballys sports haircut they had to take with the tv deal.
And it absolutely has impact on the future phases of the development…that’s all I’m going to say.
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It literally cannot be because Missouri is spent on gambling licenses. It’s trying to add one more for a casino in the ozarks via statewide constitutional amendmentgone corporate wrote: ↑Sep 23, 2024Agree that sports betting could be a huge component on this; would think it'd be centered in the main social building. Also agree that BPV's next phase will definitely get a major kick out of the Key Rate coming in below 5% (thanks Chair Powell!) and that the FOMC's actions will spur multiple developments to initiate in the near future.
I've been aware of an intention to build, held back by economic and market forces, that the plan has been ongoing for years. It wouldn't surprise me to hear that maybe those plans are due to be tweaked by both shifts in demand and by a new architect's participation, yet that the plans for the development's expansion remain as they had already been written by the previous architect. Plus, after the Cards' poor year on the field and in the stands, the franchise needs a shot in the arm. Make it a one-two of sports betting and site buildout.
The one at Wrigley is for people not in the game though isn’t it?delmar2debaliviere2downtown wrote: ↑Sep 28, 2024You can do the same thing at the horse track, but people go for the experience. DraftKings put a sports betting annex onto Wrigley for a reason. People could bet at home but gambling is an entertainment activity. Vegas still lives on for a reason. The Cardinals could definitely sell a 703 type club experience to people who want to have a game experience where they can bet on props throughout the game in person.jshank83 wrote: ↑Sep 27, 2024You can bet on that stuff at the game on your phone if it’s legal in the state. You can just do it from your seat so I don’t know if they need to use space on a club.delmar2debaliviere2downtown wrote: ↑Sep 27, 2024
I’m not a sports gambler but I’m surprised you are against this. Why let the money go across the river? Young people are interested in going to venues where they can do this. It will make Ballpark Village much more popular. I’ve even wondered why MLB hasn’t been more proactive and let people bet throughout the game on innings/at bats in the stadium in some type of dedicated club section or similar. Baseball is the perfect sport for betting on smaller game events.
And it absolutely has impact on the future phases of the development…that’s all I’m going to say.
I also have gone to the horse track to bet but I’m still watching the horse race live, not sitting in one of the lounges watching on a tv.
The way you worded it made me think you were talking about people who paid for a ticket with a seat instead going into a “club” and watching the game on tv in it instead.
If it’s for people who don’t have a ticket and want to be down there, like a sports bar, then I can get more behind it.
I think you will see the team partner with DraftKings for the example and then basically make a Sportsbook type room but you just use your phone to bet. Won’t need a license. Could use location services to see how many people bet from the location.dbInSouthCity wrote: ↑Sep 28, 2024It literally cannot be because Missouri is spent on gambling licenses. It’s trying to add one more for a casino in the ozarks via statewide constitutional amendmentgone corporate wrote: ↑Sep 23, 2024Agree that sports betting could be a huge component on this; would think it'd be centered in the main social building. Also agree that BPV's next phase will definitely get a major kick out of the Key Rate coming in below 5% (thanks Chair Powell!) and that the FOMC's actions will spur multiple developments to initiate in the near future.
I've been aware of an intention to build, held back by economic and market forces, that the plan has been ongoing for years. It wouldn't surprise me to hear that maybe those plans are due to be tweaked by both shifts in demand and by a new architect's participation, yet that the plans for the development's expansion remain as they had already been written by the previous architect. Plus, after the Cards' poor year on the field and in the stands, the franchise needs a shot in the arm. Make it a one-two of sports betting and site buildout.