The Pirates are definitely one of the worst teams in the league, but their pitching staff is Top 10. Additionally, we went up against the best pitcher in the League on Tuesday. All while our best hitter Herrera is out. Obviously not an encouraging series but it's not the end of the world
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I’m not fixated on it. I was just curious.Debaliviere91 wrote: ↑Jul 02, 2025You are both a fixating on one very specific outcome of a 3 game set that doesn’t necessarily correlate to a team being good or bad over a 162 game series. You are being very reactionary.
Of the top 10 teams in baseball:
Yankees lost 6 in a row to sub .500 teams and got shut out 3 in a row.
Blue Jays lost 8 of 9. They also got swept in a series and gave up 19 runs while scoring 2.
Rays lost 5 in a row to sub .500 teams.
Phils lost 9 of 10 including a sweep from the Pirates.
Brewers started off the season losing 4 in a row by a margin of 47 to 15.
The Mets lost 10 of 11 and played the Pirates before us and lost by a margin of 30 to 4. That’s far worse than we fared vs the Buccos.
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Fair enough. I think there’s a lot of reason for optimism. I hope they get strong support the rest of the season.JaneJacobsGhost wrote:I’m not fixated on it. I was just curious.Debaliviere91 wrote: ↑Jul 02, 2025You are both a fixating on one very specific outcome of a 3 game set that doesn’t necessarily correlate to a team being good or bad over a 162 game series. You are being very reactionary.
Of the top 10 teams in baseball:
Yankees lost 6 in a row to sub .500 teams and got shut out 3 in a row.
Blue Jays lost 8 of 9. They also got swept in a series and gave up 19 runs while scoring 2.
Rays lost 5 in a row to sub .500 teams.
Phils lost 9 of 10 including a sweep from the Pirates.
Brewers started off the season losing 4 in a row by a margin of 47 to 15.
The Mets lost 10 of 11 and played the Pirates before us and lost by a margin of 30 to 4. That’s far worse than we fared vs the Buccos.
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They sell these at Busch Stadium merch stands. Thought this forum might love these…pretty sweet
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4th place. 3 games above .500. +3run differential.
Not one qualified starting pitcher with an ERA below 4.
Not one qualified hitter with an OPS above .800
Not one qualified starting pitcher with an ERA below 4.
Not one qualified hitter with an OPS above .800
Should be selling. Mikolas and Fedde should be traded or released. Matz traded. Helsley, Maton should both be traded. Arenado should be traded if they can find a buyer.
The rest of the year should be the youth movement.
This team is one offseason away from being good, just need to make the correct moves.
The rest of the year should be the youth movement.
This team is one offseason away from being good, just need to make the correct moves.
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Romero will probably be on the block too. Nootbaar?
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If Mozeliak is calling the shots, it’s unlikely you will see more than 1 or 2 moves. He hasn’t earned nicknames like SloMo, Mozo, and Moronzliak for nothing.
Fortunately, there was a clear shift in draft strategy this year likely signaling the transition in drafting and development to Chaim Bloom’s philosophy. The Cardinals have favored ground balls over strikeouts (because groundouts are cheaper than strikeouts) since Lunhow departed and to lackluster results. This year we drafted many pitchers with high end fastballs and other high end swing and miss offerings.
Likewise, I hope Bloom has been given the reins over the trade deadline.
Fortunately, there was a clear shift in draft strategy this year likely signaling the transition in drafting and development to Chaim Bloom’s philosophy. The Cardinals have favored ground balls over strikeouts (because groundouts are cheaper than strikeouts) since Lunhow departed and to lackluster results. This year we drafted many pitchers with high end fastballs and other high end swing and miss offerings.
Likewise, I hope Bloom has been given the reins over the trade deadline.
Mikolas has a full NTC and said over the weekend that he would not waive it for any team. Fedde is more likely to be released than traded; I can't imagine anyone would want to take him on and give up something if value for him.Auggie wrote: ↑Jul 20, 2025Should be selling. Mikolas and Fedde should be traded or released. Matz traded. Helsley, Maton should both be traded. Arenado should be traded if they can find a buyer.
The rest of the year should be the youth movement.
This team is one offseason away from being good, just need to make the correct moves.
The question is who replaces him? McGreevy should be in the rotation now, yes. He's not because he's the backup for every current starting pitcher in case of injury (or as is the case this week, when someone needs to skip a start.)
Quinn Matthews is the next big prospect, but he's not shown he's ready yet. He's 2-4 with a 1.68 WHIP at Memphis this year. He's not on the 40-man yet (though obviously a spot would open up if you get rid of Fedde somehow).
Maybe you try to stretch out Graceffo? Maybe you try to flip Helsley for a serviceable starter? Who else is there? The roster has been managed into a corner.
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Enough of Miles Mikolas. I've seen enough! Take him out of the rotation and use him as a long reliever. Let Matz take his spot and have McGreevy take Fedde's spot. That will at the very least give us some chance of staying in the ballgame and maybe get a win.
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Mcgreevy is spot starting for Liberatore. He is not taking Fedde’s or Mikolas’s job.
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I think the level of rebuild being discussed here is much longer term than needed. I’m fine with planning to not be competitive this season, but we don’t need to unload everyone and be rebuilding for 3 years. Especially when we simply can’t trade guys like Arenado.
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Most of the names being discussed are goners anyway.
I would not trade Maton unless the price is right.
I would not trade Maton unless the price is right.
Fedde has been released. John Mozeliak has been so bad at his job for 10 years now. God I wish I could have his level of job security regardless of my production.
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Sure, we just traded them to other teams for garbage (see Arozarena, Gallen, Alcantara, Garcia)
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Donavan is a really good player, though not quite a star (an all star though this year). We just missed on Jordan Walker
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We missed on Jordan Walker or our terrible development program failed him?
Also, Walker is 23. People still need to chill
Also, Walker is 23. People still need to chill
Walker and Carlson were top MLB prospects. We failed them, all there is to it.
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Lol this is an absolute overreaction. He's fallen off a bit in recent years, but that doesn't change the fact that he's been one of the best execs in MLB and most of the team's constraints come from an ownership group that doesn't provide adequate monetary resources (like the team having to gut the analytical and developmental depts. in the face of COVID to keep payroll) and a principal owner that likes to be fairly active in running the team. In any case - it's just sports. None of it really matters tbh.JaneJacobsGhost wrote: ↑Jul 23, 2025Fedde has been released. John Mozeliak has been so bad at his job for 10 years now. God I wish I could have his level of job security regardless of my production.
Donovan should be traded this year. His trade value will almost certainly never be higher and he'll enter the decline phase soon. Ideally the Cardinals would have no one over 32/33 on the team.
Also should be traded: Helsley (should've been dealt last year or during the off-season), Maton (he's been a lot worse since the first couple of weeks of the season and his good performance is likely a mirage, so get rid of him while he's still worth anything, and Romero. If you can move him, Arenado needs to go. Still a decent defender but his offense is cratering and his attitude is obnoxious, plus if you're gonna go all-in on the youngsters then do so with Gorman at 3B. Also would like to see Contreras traded if possible - love him, his attitude, and his bat - but his bat can probably be replaced by Herrera without much issue and we've got Burly to actually play 1B and a glut of catchers either already in the league or in the minors. Speaking of which, could probably trade one or more of them, too.
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You’re still living in 2016. Every significant moment in John Mozeliak’s career was accomplished with the talent acquired by better baseball men (Jocketty and Lunhow).Trololzilla wrote: ↑Jul 25, 2025Lol this is an absolute overreaction. He's fallen off a bit in recent years, but that doesn't change the fact that he's been one of the best execs in MLBJaneJacobsGhost wrote: ↑Jul 23, 2025Fedde has been released. John Mozeliak has been so bad at his job for 10 years now. God I wish I could have his level of job security regardless of my production.
Mozeliak is a league-wide joke now. From making the most disastrous trades in the last 10 years of the MLB, to dismantling a once vaunted player development system, to being genuinely the among the worst communicators in the game.
But don’t ask me! John Mozeliak’s peers also say he sucks now as shown in this recent poll of MLB execs where the Cardinals front office received zero votes.
https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/627380 ... tive-vote/
If you want to blame ownership you’ll get no disagreement from me
Ownership's single biggest failure was keeping Mozeliak around for nearly 10 years too long.JaneJacobsGhost wrote: ↑Jul 25, 2025You’re still living in 2016. Every significant moment in John Mozeliak’s career was accomplished with the talent acquired by better baseball men (Jocketty and Lunhow).Trololzilla wrote: ↑Jul 25, 2025Lol this is an absolute overreaction. He's fallen off a bit in recent years, but that doesn't change the fact that he's been one of the best execs in MLBJaneJacobsGhost wrote: ↑Jul 23, 2025Fedde has been released. John Mozeliak has been so bad at his job for 10 years now. God I wish I could have his level of job security regardless of my production.
Mozeliak is a league-wide joke now. From making the most disastrous trades in the last 10 years of the MLB, to dismantling a once vaunted player development system, to being genuinely the among the worst communicators in the game.
But don’t ask me! John Mozeliak’s peers also say he sucks now as shown in this recent poll of MLB execs where the Cardinals front office received zero votes.
https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/627380 ... tive-vote/
If you want to blame ownership you’ll get no disagreement from me
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The player development side of the organization was instructing minor league pitchers to pitch to contact and not worry about strikeouts as recently as 2023. That’s honestly the most embarrassing indictment of the Cardinals FO.
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I mean, Mo was literally the director of scouting for the Cardinals for close to a decade and was responsible for drafting the likes of Pujols and Molina - it's significantly easier to build a team around multiple future HoF players. It's also not a given that either Jocketty nor Luhnow are "better baseball men" considering how hard Jocketty fell off, leading to his dismissal and mediocre performance after the Cardinals. He was definitely very aggressive with trading, but usually it meant that the Cardinals had a terrible farm system during his tenure. Luhnow came from McKinsey, so he had an analytical/consultant frame of mind and helped develop a good evaluation system but was never more than that here. He then promptly stole the system, used it for personal achievement with the Astros, and now isn't even involved in baseball anymore.JaneJacobsGhost wrote: ↑Jul 25, 2025You’re still living in 2016. Every significant moment in John Mozeliak’s career was accomplished with the talent acquired by better baseball men (Jocketty and Lunhow).
Lmao that is an absolutely egregious overreaction. No trade Mo/Girsch have made has even sniffed the "most-disastrous" trades in the MLB, not one. Sure, there's been some whiffs but no trade has been "disastrous" for the team let alone set standards for the league. I will also reiterate that the "dismantling" of the development system has a lot more to do with the contraction of MILB and financial constraints forced upon the FO by ownership in the face of COVID, which led to basically the entire analytical team and a lot of coaches being let go. Do I agree with that decision - absolutely not - but there's only so much you can say/do when ownership tells you to cut budget while prioritizing the MLB team. They should've also gotten rid of Gary LaRocque a lot sooner than they did - him hanging on as long as he did was particularly detrimental to the organization's development system but it's hard to know how much ownership was protecting one of the "old guard" in that case.Mozeliak is a league-wide joke now. From making the most disastrous trades in the last 10 years of the MLB, to dismantling a once vaunted player development system, to being genuinely the among the worst communicators in the game.
But don’t ask me! John Mozeliak’s peers also say he sucks now as shown in this recent poll of MLB execs where the Cardinals front office received zero votes.
https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/627380 ... tive-vote/
If you want to blame ownership you’ll get no disagreement from me
Will also remind you that that executive poll includes each team's entire FO, not just the leading exec. Not great at all to receive no votes, but that's different that saying his peers think he sucks - they think the organization as a whole sucks, which is fair until the re-org and re-staffing is finished. Also not sure about that Dodgers ranking considering the human trafficking, but it is what it is. At least the Cardinals don't do that.
Cardinals fans also kinda suck too - they tend to be entitled, fair-weather, gas station types who tend to believe that being communicated with above a 6th grade level is talking down to them. Let's also take into account the hypocrisy regarding analytics as one notable example - fans wanted the team to hit better after the Mabry days so they brought in Jeff Albert to improve hitting system wide. By all metrics it improved immediately and massively but the fans in town practically called for his head to the point that he felt uncomfortable and left. I've also received or seen more vitriol and ignorance from Cardinals fans at Busch Stadium itself than I have from fans of any other team regardless of locale. Remember: it's all Bread and Circuses; nothing to get that serious over.