At this stage in the season, the Cardinals may need to extend that to the entire stadium to get more than 5000-7500 people to show up.Auggie wrote: ↑Sep 08, 2025The Budweiser Terrace has $5 beer, $6 margaritas, and $5 hot dogs.DogtownBnR wrote: ↑Sep 08, 2025As we all know, the Cardinals attendance has been bad this year. I was at the game last Friday night. There was a good crowd (for this season), but the upper deck was sparse. Why not offer $5 beers & $3 hot dogs? That would get people there for a 'cheapER' party, kind of like the fans at Wrigley when the Cubs are bad. Make it a party-atmosphere with music & other things to get butts in the seats. It is going to be a while before the Cards are good again, so they are going to need to be creative.
- 3,755
They have been getting ~12-15,000 people on weekdays, 18-22k on weekends. Yesterday had 30k. Brewers will be a good draw for the last weekend as well.DogtownBnR wrote: ↑Sep 08, 2025At this stage in the season, the Cardinals may need to extend that to the entire stadium to get more than 5000-7500 people to show up.Auggie wrote: ↑Sep 08, 2025The Budweiser Terrace has $5 beer, $6 margaritas, and $5 hot dogs.DogtownBnR wrote: ↑Sep 08, 2025As we all know, the Cardinals attendance has been bad this year. I was at the game last Friday night. There was a good crowd (for this season), but the upper deck was sparse. Why not offer $5 beers & $3 hot dogs? That would get people there for a 'cheapER' party, kind of like the fans at Wrigley when the Cubs are bad. Make it a party-atmosphere with music & other things to get butts in the seats. It is going to be a while before the Cards are good again, so they are going to need to be creative.
- 3,755
The nice weather played a role this weekend & should continue to encourage people to come out, with exception of the heatwave coming.Auggie wrote: ↑Sep 08, 2025They have been getting ~12-15,000 people on weekdays, 18-22k on weekends. Yesterday had 30k. Brewers will be a good draw for the last weekend as well.
I would argue the Giants being a good travel team and the amount of people in downtown this weekend played the biggest role.DogtownBnR wrote: ↑Sep 08, 2025The nice weather played a role this weekend & should continue to encourage people to come out, with exception of the heatwave coming.Auggie wrote: ↑Sep 08, 2025They have been getting ~12-15,000 people on weekdays, 18-22k on weekends. Yesterday had 30k. Brewers will be a good draw for the last weekend as well.DogtownBnR wrote: ↑Sep 08, 2025At this stage in the season, the Cardinals may need to extend that to the entire stadium to get more than 5000-7500 people to show up.
Sunday was also a massive kids/family day with a kids giveaway, kids run the bases, etc.
- 3,755
^ Also Friday night was a triple bobblehead SGA. The 1985 team reunited for a field tribute. That team had tons of fan favorites, Ozzie, Willie & Clark to name a few. Friday night would have been a near sellout a few years ago. Saw some Giant fans, but not an overwhelming amount.
A few years ago the average game was a near sellout. And then they had 1 bad season and the fans showed they are no better than any other fan base.
No matter how much anyone wants to blame the ownership, there is no excuse at all for having lower attendance than the Colorado Rockies other than the fan base is actually not that good and only looked good because the team had a 15 year period of above 500 baseball.
The Cardinals are only 4.5 games back from the Wild Card, yet average less than 28k per game (and in actual numbers, it's more like 22k). It's an embarrassment and it can't be blamed wholly on ownership- the same ownership that bends over backwards to improve fan experience and bent over backwards to acquire players like Nolan Arenado. It's not like we have 40 wins and no noteworthy players on the roster, but the fans act like that's the reality.
No matter how much anyone wants to blame the ownership, there is no excuse at all for having lower attendance than the Colorado Rockies other than the fan base is actually not that good and only looked good because the team had a 15 year period of above 500 baseball.
The Cardinals are only 4.5 games back from the Wild Card, yet average less than 28k per game (and in actual numbers, it's more like 22k). It's an embarrassment and it can't be blamed wholly on ownership- the same ownership that bends over backwards to improve fan experience and bent over backwards to acquire players like Nolan Arenado. It's not like we have 40 wins and no noteworthy players on the roster, but the fans act like that's the reality.
- 974
This is a pretty charitable assessment of the ownerships performance over the past 10 years (we’ve won one playoff series in that time). That’s a problem and I don’t blame the fans for reacting the way they do.Auggie wrote: ↑Sep 08, 2025A few years ago the average game was a near sellout. And then they had 1 bad season and the fans showed they are no better than any other fan base.
No matter how much anyone wants to blame the ownership, there is no excuse at all for having lower attendance than the Colorado Rockies other than the fan base is actually not that good and only looked good because the team had a 15 year period of above 500 baseball.
The Cardinals are only 4.5 games back from the Wild Card, yet average less than 28k per game (and in actual numbers, it's more like 22k). It's an embarrassment and it can't be blamed wholly on ownership- the same ownership that bends over backwards to improve fan experience and bent over backwards to acquire players like Nolan Arenado. It's not like we have 40 wins and no noteworthy players on the roster, but the fans act like that's the reality.
You can’t compare us to the Rockies. It doesn’t matter if you win 40 games or 80 games. Neither are good enough and at some point, given the total cost of attending a game, long stretches of brutal St Louis summer weather, an uninteresting roster with no stars, and seemingly no investment from owners, fans aren’t going spend money there. There is no one to blame but the ownership. Period.
And please explain how this ownership bends over backwards to improve fan experience. That’s ridiculous. It’s been on a downward slide for a decade.
Over the past 16 years, the Rockies have won 1 playoff game, much less a series. In the last 10 years, the Cardinals have 9 winnings seasons to 1 losing season and 4 playoff appearances. Complaining that they have "only won one series" is exactly what I'm talking about. A normal franchise does not have the record the Cardinals have and they don't have the audacity to complain about winning "only one playoff series" in a decade. The previous decade saw 2 World Series wins, 3 World Series appearances, and multiple championship series appearances. Having a decade of winning followed by a decade of mostly still winning but in a more realistic scale does not justify 33%+ decline in attendance.Debaliviere91 wrote: ↑Sep 08, 2025This is a pretty charitable assessment of the ownerships performance over the past 10 years (we’ve won one playoff series in that time). That’s a problem and I don’t blame the fans for reacting the way they do.Auggie wrote: ↑Sep 08, 2025A few years ago the average game was a near sellout. And then they had 1 bad season and the fans showed they are no better than any other fan base.
No matter how much anyone wants to blame the ownership, there is no excuse at all for having lower attendance than the Colorado Rockies other than the fan base is actually not that good and only looked good because the team had a 15 year period of above 500 baseball.
The Cardinals are only 4.5 games back from the Wild Card, yet average less than 28k per game (and in actual numbers, it's more like 22k). It's an embarrassment and it can't be blamed wholly on ownership- the same ownership that bends over backwards to improve fan experience and bent over backwards to acquire players like Nolan Arenado. It's not like we have 40 wins and no noteworthy players on the roster, but the fans act like that's the reality.
You can’t compare us to the Rockies. It doesn’t matter if you win 40 games or 80 games. Neither are good enough and at some point, given the total cost of attending a game, long stretches of brutal St Louis summer weather, an uninteresting roster with no stars, and seemingly no investment from owners, fans aren’t going spend money there. There is no one to blame but the ownership. Period.
Are there real problems with the Cardinals, their decisions, their player development? Sure. But "the best fans in baseball" would not suddenly stop going to games unless they only show up when they're near guaranteed to make the playoffs.
Additionally, the idea that the Cardinals don't invest is laughably unserious. Committing $230M+ to one of the best 3rd basemen in the league is not an investment? Signing one of the top starting pitchers to a $75M contract is not investment? Signing the top catcher to an $87M contract is not investment? Picking up relievers like Maton and Kittridge (who both far exceeded expectations) are not investments? Again, some teams wish their ownership would have made 1 of these types of moves, much less all of them. Especially the latter ones, like Gray and Contreras, both being in eras were the Cardinals "never spend money".
You aren't serious and Cardinals fans aren't actually that great of fans. That's all there is to it.
There's lots of things that the average insulted Cardinals fan does not even realize. Things like having exit/re-entry, a very flexible bag policy, allowing all outside food and non-alcoholic drinks, allowing metal water bottles, allowing backpacks, allowing pocket knives.Debaliviere91 wrote: ↑Sep 08, 2025And please explain how this ownership bends over backwards to improve fan experience. That’s ridiculous. It’s been on a downward slide for a decade.
All of these are present at Busch but are either all not at other stadiums or are only here and there. But Cardinals fans take it for granted and act like $15 tickets is somehow prohibitively expensive.
Edit: The average cost of a ticket has also gone down 2014-2024 when considering inflation.
- 974
I still don’t understand who in their right mind would draw a comparison between the Cardinals and the Rockies. There isn’t one. They are a historically bad franchise without a culture of winning. Their fans know that. This is not the Cardinals and I’m proud of that. Winning 85 games with nothing to show for it in the playoffs isn’t “winning” to me or other Cardinals fans. Historically the Cardinals have delivered better results than a typical franchise and the fans have delivered better attendance than other franchises. That contract has been broken.Auggie wrote: ↑Sep 08, 2025Over the past 16 years, the Rockies have won 1 playoff game, much less a series. In the last 10 years, the Cardinals have 9 winnings seasons to 1 losing season and 4 playoff appearances. Complaining that they have "only won one series" is exactly what I'm talking about. A normal franchise does not have the record the Cardinals have and they don't have the audacity to complain about winning "only one playoff series" in a decade. The previous decade saw 2 World Series wins, 3 World Series appearances, and multiple championship series appearances. Having a decade of winning followed by a decade of mostly still winning but in a more realistic scale does not justify 33%+ decline in attendance.Debaliviere91 wrote: ↑Sep 08, 2025This is a pretty charitable assessment of the ownerships performance over the past 10 years (we’ve won one playoff series in that time). That’s a problem and I don’t blame the fans for reacting the way they do.Auggie wrote: ↑Sep 08, 2025A few years ago the average game was a near sellout. And then they had 1 bad season and the fans showed they are no better than any other fan base.
No matter how much anyone wants to blame the ownership, there is no excuse at all for having lower attendance than the Colorado Rockies other than the fan base is actually not that good and only looked good because the team had a 15 year period of above 500 baseball.
The Cardinals are only 4.5 games back from the Wild Card, yet average less than 28k per game (and in actual numbers, it's more like 22k). It's an embarrassment and it can't be blamed wholly on ownership- the same ownership that bends over backwards to improve fan experience and bent over backwards to acquire players like Nolan Arenado. It's not like we have 40 wins and no noteworthy players on the roster, but the fans act like that's the reality.
You can’t compare us to the Rockies. It doesn’t matter if you win 40 games or 80 games. Neither are good enough and at some point, given the total cost of attending a game, long stretches of brutal St Louis summer weather, an uninteresting roster with no stars, and seemingly no investment from owners, fans aren’t going spend money there. There is no one to blame but the ownership. Period.
Are there real problems with the Cardinals, their decisions, their player development? Sure. But "the best fans in baseball" would not suddenly stop going to games unless they only show up when they're near guaranteed to make the playoffs.
Additionally, the idea that the Cardinals don't invest is laughably unserious. Committing $230M+ to one of the best 3rd basemen in the league is not an investment? Signing one of the top starting pitchers to a $75M contract is not investment? Signing the top catcher to an $87M contract is not investment? Picking up relievers like Maton and Kittridge (who both far exceeded expectations) are not investments? Again, some teams wish their ownership would have made 1 of these types of moves, much less all of them. Especially the latter ones, like Gray and Contreras, both being in eras were the Cardinals "never spend money".
You aren't serious and Cardinals fans aren't actually that great of fans. That's all there is to it.
No one here has argued the Cardinals don’t invest in players, so I don’t know what you’re getting on about. Those investments haven’t paid off though, so it doesn’t matter. Our two biggest investments in recent years, Goldy and Nado were signed in their early 30s and we have nothing to show for it at all. The best fans in baseball will do their job when ownership does their’s. We as fans aren’t expected to keep delivering when ownership doesn’t. That’s not how it works. Your referencing previous decades as the last time we had on the field success. Think about that.
Going to a baseball game is still a costly investment of time and money for the average American family. They are going to pursue other options when the on field product isn’t good. If you think your examples provided above are legitimately ways the franchise is bending over backwards for the fan experience, you just don’t get it.Auggie wrote: ↑Sep 08, 2025There's lots of things that the average insulted Cardinals fan does not even realize. Things like having exit/re-entry, a very flexible bag policy, allowing all outside food and non-alcoholic drinks, allowing metal water bottles, allowing backpacks, allowing pocket knives.Debaliviere91 wrote: ↑Sep 08, 2025And please explain how this ownership bends over backwards to improve fan experience. That’s ridiculous. It’s been on a downward slide for a decade.
All of these are present at Busch but are either all not at other stadiums or are only here and there. But Cardinals fans take it for granted and act like $15 tickets is somehow prohibitively expensive.
Edit: The average cost of a ticket has also gone down 2014-2024 when considering inflation.
So then we agree, Cardinals fans are fair-weather fans that only show up when the team is seen as a playoff guarantee. There's nothing to be proud of in that whatsoever.Debaliviere91 wrote: ↑Sep 08, 2025I still don’t understand who in their right mind would draw a comparison between the Cardinals and the Rockies. There isn’t one. They are a historically bad franchise without a culture of winning. Their fans know that. This is not the Cardinals and I’m proud of that. Winning 85 games with nothing to show for it in the playoffs isn’t “winning” to me or other Cardinals fans. Historically the Cardinals have delivered better results than a typical franchise and the fans have delivered better attendance than other franchises. That contract has been broken.Auggie wrote: ↑Sep 08, 2025Over the past 16 years, the Rockies have won 1 playoff game, much less a series. In the last 10 years, the Cardinals have 9 winnings seasons to 1 losing season and 4 playoff appearances. Complaining that they have "only won one series" is exactly what I'm talking about. A normal franchise does not have the record the Cardinals have and they don't have the audacity to complain about winning "only one playoff series" in a decade. The previous decade saw 2 World Series wins, 3 World Series appearances, and multiple championship series appearances. Having a decade of winning followed by a decade of mostly still winning but in a more realistic scale does not justify 33%+ decline in attendance.Debaliviere91 wrote: ↑Sep 08, 2025
This is a pretty charitable assessment of the ownerships performance over the past 10 years (we’ve won one playoff series in that time). That’s a problem and I don’t blame the fans for reacting the way they do.
You can’t compare us to the Rockies. It doesn’t matter if you win 40 games or 80 games. Neither are good enough and at some point, given the total cost of attending a game, long stretches of brutal St Louis summer weather, an uninteresting roster with no stars, and seemingly no investment from owners, fans aren’t going spend money there. There is no one to blame but the ownership. Period.
Are there real problems with the Cardinals, their decisions, their player development? Sure. But "the best fans in baseball" would not suddenly stop going to games unless they only show up when they're near guaranteed to make the playoffs.
Additionally, the idea that the Cardinals don't invest is laughably unserious. Committing $230M+ to one of the best 3rd basemen in the league is not an investment? Signing one of the top starting pitchers to a $75M contract is not investment? Signing the top catcher to an $87M contract is not investment? Picking up relievers like Maton and Kittridge (who both far exceeded expectations) are not investments? Again, some teams wish their ownership would have made 1 of these types of moves, much less all of them. Especially the latter ones, like Gray and Contreras, both being in eras were the Cardinals "never spend money".
You aren't serious and Cardinals fans aren't actually that great of fans. That's all there is to it.
No one here has argued the Cardinals don’t invest in players, so I don’t know what you’re getting on about. Those investments haven’t paid off though, so it doesn’t matter. Our two biggest investments in recent years, Goldy and Nado were signed in their early 30s and we have nothing to show for it at all. The best fans in baseball will do their job when ownership does their’s. We as fans aren’t expected to keep delivering when ownership doesn’t. That’s not how it works. Your referencing previous decades as the last time we had on the field success. Think about that.
I also just don't think you are quite grasping that the "typical franchise" has 1 or 2 playoff appearances in the last 10 years, not 5, and they maybe won 1 game in them, if that.
You are also the one who said the owners don't invest: "and seemingly no investment from owners".
- 974
No. Cardinals fans will show up better than any other franchise when ownership hold up their end of the bargain or at least shows they have a plan to do so. You’re living in a fantasy if you think the title “best fans in baseball” means this is a one way contract between fans and the owners. You don’t get it.Auggie wrote: ↑Sep 08, 2025So then we agree, Cardinals fans are fair-weather fans that only show up when the team is seen as a playoff guarantee. There's nothing to be proud of in that whatsoever.Debaliviere91 wrote: ↑Sep 08, 2025I still don’t understand who in their right mind would draw a comparison between the Cardinals and the Rockies. There isn’t one. They are a historically bad franchise without a culture of winning. Their fans know that. This is not the Cardinals and I’m proud of that. Winning 85 games with nothing to show for it in the playoffs isn’t “winning” to me or other Cardinals fans. Historically the Cardinals have delivered better results than a typical franchise and the fans have delivered better attendance than other franchises. That contract has been broken.Auggie wrote: ↑Sep 08, 2025
Over the past 16 years, the Rockies have won 1 playoff game, much less a series. In the last 10 years, the Cardinals have 9 winnings seasons to 1 losing season and 4 playoff appearances. Complaining that they have "only won one series" is exactly what I'm talking about. A normal franchise does not have the record the Cardinals have and they don't have the audacity to complain about winning "only one playoff series" in a decade. The previous decade saw 2 World Series wins, 3 World Series appearances, and multiple championship series appearances. Having a decade of winning followed by a decade of mostly still winning but in a more realistic scale does not justify 33%+ decline in attendance.
Are there real problems with the Cardinals, their decisions, their player development? Sure. But "the best fans in baseball" would not suddenly stop going to games unless they only show up when they're near guaranteed to make the playoffs.
Additionally, the idea that the Cardinals don't invest is laughably unserious. Committing $230M+ to one of the best 3rd basemen in the league is not an investment? Signing one of the top starting pitchers to a $75M contract is not investment? Signing the top catcher to an $87M contract is not investment? Picking up relievers like Maton and Kittridge (who both far exceeded expectations) are not investments? Again, some teams wish their ownership would have made 1 of these types of moves, much less all of them. Especially the latter ones, like Gray and Contreras, both being in eras were the Cardinals "never spend money".
You aren't serious and Cardinals fans aren't actually that great of fans. That's all there is to it.
No one here has argued the Cardinals don’t invest in players, so I don’t know what you’re getting on about. Those investments haven’t paid off though, so it doesn’t matter. Our two biggest investments in recent years, Goldy and Nado were signed in their early 30s and we have nothing to show for it at all. The best fans in baseball will do their job when ownership does their’s. We as fans aren’t expected to keep delivering when ownership doesn’t. That’s not how it works. Your referencing previous decades as the last time we had on the field success. Think about that.
I was referring to the conversation around investment in the fan experience. Letting in metal water bottles ain’t gonna cut it.Auggie wrote: ↑Sep 08, 2025So then we agree, Cardinals fans are fair-weather fans that only show up when the team is seen as a playoff guarantee. There's nothing to be proud of in that whatsoever.Debaliviere91 wrote: ↑Sep 08, 2025I still don’t understand who in their right mind would draw a comparison between the Cardinals and the Rockies. There isn’t one. They are a historically bad franchise without a culture of winning. Their fans know that. This is not the Cardinals and I’m proud of that. Winning 85 games with nothing to show for it in the playoffs isn’t “winning” to me or other Cardinals fans. Historically the Cardinals have delivered better results than a typical franchise and the fans have delivered better attendance than other franchises. That contract has been broken.Auggie wrote: ↑Sep 08, 2025
Over the past 16 years, the Rockies have won 1 playoff game, much less a series. In the last 10 years, the Cardinals have 9 winnings seasons to 1 losing season and 4 playoff appearances. Complaining that they have "only won one series" is exactly what I'm talking about. A normal franchise does not have the record the Cardinals have and they don't have the audacity to complain about winning "only one playoff series" in a decade. The previous decade saw 2 World Series wins, 3 World Series appearances, and multiple championship series appearances. Having a decade of winning followed by a decade of mostly still winning but in a more realistic scale does not justify 33%+ decline in attendance.
Are there real problems with the Cardinals, their decisions, their player development? Sure. But "the best fans in baseball" would not suddenly stop going to games unless they only show up when they're near guaranteed to make the playoffs.
Additionally, the idea that the Cardinals don't invest is laughably unserious. Committing $230M+ to one of the best 3rd basemen in the league is not an investment? Signing one of the top starting pitchers to a $75M contract is not investment? Signing the top catcher to an $87M contract is not investment? Picking up relievers like Maton and Kittridge (who both far exceeded expectations) are not investments? Again, some teams wish their ownership would have made 1 of these types of moves, much less all of them. Especially the latter ones, like Gray and Contreras, both being in eras were the Cardinals "never spend money".
You aren't serious and Cardinals fans aren't actually that great of fans. That's all there is to it.
No one here has argued the Cardinals don’t invest in players, so I don’t know what you’re getting on about. Those investments haven’t paid off though, so it doesn’t matter. Our two biggest investments in recent years, Goldy and Nado were signed in their early 30s and we have nothing to show for it at all. The best fans in baseball will do their job when ownership does their’s. We as fans aren’t expected to keep delivering when ownership doesn’t. That’s not how it works. Your referencing previous decades as the last time we had on the field success. Think about that.
I also just don't think you are quite grasping that the "typical franchise" has 1 or 2 playoff appearances in the last 10 years, not 4, and they maybe won 1 game in them, if that.
You are also the one who said the owners don't invest: "and seemingly no investment from owners".
I think you can't label yourselves the "best fans in baseball" when you can barely outdraw the Cincinnati Reds.Debaliviere91 wrote: ↑Sep 08, 2025No. Cardinals fans will show up better than any other franchise when ownership hold up their end of the bargain or at least shows they have a plan to do so. You’re living in a fantasy if you think the title “best fans in baseball” means this is a one way contract between fans and the owners. You don’t get it.Auggie wrote: ↑Sep 08, 2025So then we agree, Cardinals fans are fair-weather fans that only show up when the team is seen as a playoff guarantee. There's nothing to be proud of in that whatsoever.Debaliviere91 wrote: ↑Sep 08, 2025I still don’t understand who in their right mind would draw a comparison between the Cardinals and the Rockies. There isn’t one. They are a historically bad franchise without a culture of winning. Their fans know that. This is not the Cardinals and I’m proud of that. Winning 85 games with nothing to show for it in the playoffs isn’t “winning” to me or other Cardinals fans. Historically the Cardinals have delivered better results than a typical franchise and the fans have delivered better attendance than other franchises. That contract has been broken.
No one here has argued the Cardinals don’t invest in players, so I don’t know what you’re getting on about. Those investments haven’t paid off though, so it doesn’t matter. Our two biggest investments in recent years, Goldy and Nado were signed in their early 30s and we have nothing to show for it at all. The best fans in baseball will do their job when ownership does their’s. We as fans aren’t expected to keep delivering when ownership doesn’t. That’s not how it works. Your referencing previous decades as the last time we had on the field success. Think about that.
The "contract" you describe is literally just how the average fair-weather teams operate everywhere. Nothing special here.
- 974
You’re acting as if as soon as the Cardinals stop winning, the fans disappear. That’s not true. During the last 10 years where we have one playoff series win, the Cardinals were in the top 3-4 of attendance like 80% of those years. Patience has run out and current attendance is reflecting a justified protest. It’s not fair weather.Auggie wrote: ↑Sep 08, 2025I think you can't label yourselves the "best fans in baseball" when you can barely outdraw the Cincinnati Reds.Debaliviere91 wrote: ↑Sep 08, 2025No. Cardinals fans will show up better than any other franchise when ownership hold up their end of the bargain or at least shows they have a plan to do so. You’re living in a fantasy if you think the title “best fans in baseball” means this is a one way contract between fans and the owners. You don’t get it.
The "contract" you describe is literally just how the average fair-weather teams operate everywhere. Nothing special here.
You can’t compare us to the Reds. They haven’t won a playoff series in literally 30 years and their ownership doesn’t invest. Their attendance simply reflects that.
- 912
I do think the Cardinals fans intentionally not going are doing so a little early on in this middling era “to make their voice heard with money”. I also think the age group that fills the stands with their family grew up with a run of Cardinals season that spoiled them a bit and they got apathetic quickly when the team wasn’t going for a WS (it wasn’t part of their fandom experience to long and hope year after year which is a learned fandom). Downtown is certainly no worse than it was right before COVID as a place to spend time but the discourse is worse. 2020 protests and emptied out downtowns that gave way to more crime and some egregious things that got put in front of people on tv and social media. The “crime is up no matter what you say” and “cities especially downtowns are unsafe for families” is just a fact for many people. Roster management didn’t quite work out and there hasn’t been preseason hopes for a contender nor a complete surprise turnaround during the last couple seasons.
I lived in a few baseball cities and am not from St. Louis. Cardinals fans are the best fans in baseball in my opinion and they will continue to be. Not a single franchise hasn’t gone through some apathetic periods including the Yankees and Red Sox.
Keep improving the area around the ballpark for fans, get creative with the fan experience, do whatever you can to connect fans with the players you are going to have, be positive and grateful for the fans, show some signs of a plan/rebuild for a contender.
Lots of factors. I think the team the last couple years had honestly been fun and played way above the actual talent on the roster. Most predictors had the Cardinals winning less than 70 games and in last place in the central. They just didn’t have enough juice but the team really performed on the field better than expected.
Enjoy the weather, support downtown businesses and see the team before you’re sitting up waiting for opening day all winter. That’s what I say
I lived in a few baseball cities and am not from St. Louis. Cardinals fans are the best fans in baseball in my opinion and they will continue to be. Not a single franchise hasn’t gone through some apathetic periods including the Yankees and Red Sox.
Keep improving the area around the ballpark for fans, get creative with the fan experience, do whatever you can to connect fans with the players you are going to have, be positive and grateful for the fans, show some signs of a plan/rebuild for a contender.
Lots of factors. I think the team the last couple years had honestly been fun and played way above the actual talent on the roster. Most predictors had the Cardinals winning less than 70 games and in last place in the central. They just didn’t have enough juice but the team really performed on the field better than expected.
Enjoy the weather, support downtown businesses and see the team before you’re sitting up waiting for opening day all winter. That’s what I say
- 974
I agree with what you’re saying generally. I think more patience would be justified from the fans if there was better communication from ownership and it looked like they had a plan. That’s not the case though. There’s been too many bad signings, too many prospects completely busted, and their isn’t a ton to be excited about in our farm system.delmar2debaliviere2downtown wrote: ↑Sep 08, 2025I do think Cardinals fans are intentionally not going a little early on in this middling era “to make their voice heard with money”. I also think the age group that fills the stands with their family grew up with a run of Cardinals season that spoiled them a bit and they got apathetic quickly when the team wasn’t going for a WS (it wasn’t part of their fandom experience to long and hope year after year which is a learned fandom). Downtown is certainly no worse than it was right before COVID as a place to spend time but the discourse is worse. 2020 protests and emptied out downtowns that gave way to more crime and some egregious things that got put in front of people on tv and social media. The “crime is up no matter what you say” and “cities especially downtowns are unsafe for families” is just a fact for many people. Roster management didn’t quite work out and there hasn’t been preseason hopes for a contender nor a complete surprise turnaround during the last couple seasons.
I lived in a few baseball cities and am not from St. Louis. Cardinals fans are the best fans in baseball in my opinion and they will continue to be. Not a single franchise hasn’t gone through some apathetic periods including the Yankees and Red Sox.
Keep improving the area around the ballpark for fans, get creative with the fan experience, do whatever you can to connect fans with the players you are going to have, be positive and grateful for the fans, show some signs of a plan/rebuild for a contender.
Lots of factors. I think the team the last couple years had honestly been fun and played way above the actual talent on the roster. Most predictors had the Cardinals winning less than 70 games and in last place in the central. They just didn’t have enough juice but the team really performed on the field better than expected.
Enjoy the weather, support downtown businesses and see the team before you’re sitting up waiting for opening day all winter. That’s what I say
Take the San Francisco Giants. They're a franchise that also had a super great window that boosted attendance, followed by a less than ideal era.Debaliviere91 wrote: ↑Sep 08, 2025You’re acting as if as soon as the Cardinals stop winning, the fans disappear. That’s not true. During the last 10 years where we have one playoff series win, the Cardinals were in the top 3-4 of attendance like 80% of those years. Patience has run out and current attendance is reflecting a justified protest. It’s not fair weather.Auggie wrote: ↑Sep 08, 2025I think you can't label yourselves the "best fans in baseball" when you can barely outdraw the Cincinnati Reds.Debaliviere91 wrote: ↑Sep 08, 2025
No. Cardinals fans will show up better than any other franchise when ownership hold up their end of the bargain or at least shows they have a plan to do so. You’re living in a fantasy if you think the title “best fans in baseball” means this is a one way contract between fans and the owners. You don’t get it.
The "contract" you describe is literally just how the average fair-weather teams operate everywhere. Nothing special here.
You can’t compare us to the Reds. They haven’t won a playoff series in literally 30 years and their ownership doesn’t invest. Their attendance simply reflects that.
From 2010 to 2016 they had 3 world series and 4 playoff appearances. Since 2016, they have 1 playoff appearance and 1 winning season (maybe this season will be their 2nd winning season!?).
Despite this, they have managed to stay in the low to mid 30,000s for attendance, this year up to 36,000, despite objectively being less succesful than the Cardinals over this same era (way less successful in fact) and having multiple big investments that simply did not or have not panned out the way they would have liked, through no fault of ownership.
This is the difference between a fan base that attends games because they like baseball and a fan base that attends games because their team happens to be good.
- 1,793
The team, by its own admission, has not tried to win a World Series since the middle of the Obama administration, despite rosters in multiple seasons that were potentially capable (2019 and 2022).
Why should any fan keep pumping money into a team that intentionally seeks to leave such fan’s dreams unfulfilled?
Why should any fan keep pumping money into a team that intentionally seeks to leave such fan’s dreams unfulfilled?
I would put the Cubs, Giants, and Rockies fans above Cardinals fans at a minimum. Mariners fans also have to be up there for the 20 years of sh*t that they went through.delmar2debaliviere2downtown wrote: ↑Sep 08, 2025I do think the Cardinals fans intentionally not going are doing so a little early on in this middling era “to make their voice heard with money”. I also think the age group that fills the stands with their family grew up with a run of Cardinals season that spoiled them a bit and they got apathetic quickly when the team wasn’t going for a WS (it wasn’t part of their fandom experience to long and hope year after year which is a learned fandom). Downtown is certainly no worse than it was right before COVID as a place to spend time but the discourse is worse. 2020 protests and emptied out downtowns that gave way to more crime and some egregious things that got put in front of people on tv and social media. The “crime is up no matter what you say” and “cities especially downtowns are unsafe for families” is just a fact for many people. Roster management didn’t quite work out and there hasn’t been preseason hopes for a contender nor a complete surprise turnaround during the last couple seasons.
I lived in a few baseball cities and am not from St. Louis. Cardinals fans are the best fans in baseball in my opinion and they will continue to be. Not a single franchise hasn’t gone through some apathetic periods including the Yankees and Red Sox.
Keep improving the area around the ballpark for fans, get creative with the fan experience, do whatever you can to connect fans with the players you are going to have, be positive and grateful for the fans, show some signs of a plan/rebuild for a contender.
Lots of factors. I think the team the last couple years had honestly been fun and played way above the actual talent on the roster. Most predictors had the Cardinals winning less than 70 games and in last place in the central. They just didn’t have enough juice but the team really performed on the field better than expected.
Enjoy the weather, support downtown businesses and see the team before you’re sitting up waiting for opening day all winter. That’s what I say
Cardinals fans just would not be able to go through a deep rebuild like other teams have gone through without having horrible attendance. I'm not saying the Cardinals don't have fans or even that they're fake or exceptionally bad, they just aren't exceptionally good like they think they are.
- 974
You’re not considering a couple of data points that make the Giants a poor comparison to the Cardinals. First of all, up until this year, the Cardinals have had slightly better attendance than the Giants. The Giants attendance has bumped up a few thousand this year, but remember, the other team in their region just left town. Additionally The Bay Area is a big market and St Louis is small market. Lastly, Oracle Park is often rated the best ballpark in baseball and has a great fan experience.Auggie wrote: ↑Sep 08, 2025Take the San Francisco Giants. They're a franchise that also had a super great window that boosted attendance, followed by a less than ideal era.Debaliviere91 wrote: ↑Sep 08, 2025You’re acting as if as soon as the Cardinals stop winning, the fans disappear. That’s not true. During the last 10 years where we have one playoff series win, the Cardinals were in the top 3-4 of attendance like 80% of those years. Patience has run out and current attendance is reflecting a justified protest. It’s not fair weather.
You can’t compare us to the Reds. They haven’t won a playoff series in literally 30 years and their ownership doesn’t invest. Their attendance simply reflects that.
From 2010 to 2016 they had 3 world series and 4 playoff appearances. Since 2016, they have 1 playoff appearance and 1 winning season (maybe this season will be their 2nd winning season!?).
Despite this, they have managed to stay in the low to mid 30,000s for attendance, this year up to 36,000, despite objectively being less succesful than the Cardinals over this same era (way less successful in fact) and having multiple big investments that simply did not or have not panned out the way they would have liked, through no fault of ownership.
This is the difference between a fan base that attends games because they like baseball and a fan base that attends games because their team happens to be good.
They benefit from really strong attendance from the opposing teams.
What’s the rebuild? Show me the plan and I’ll buy in. There isn’t one.Auggie wrote: ↑Sep 08, 2025I would put the Cubs, Giants, and Rockies fans above Cardinals fans at a minimum. Mariners fans also have to be up there for the 20 years of sh*t that they went through.delmar2debaliviere2downtown wrote: ↑Sep 08, 2025I do think the Cardinals fans intentionally not going are doing so a little early on in this middling era “to make their voice heard with money”. I also think the age group that fills the stands with their family grew up with a run of Cardinals season that spoiled them a bit and they got apathetic quickly when the team wasn’t going for a WS (it wasn’t part of their fandom experience to long and hope year after year which is a learned fandom). Downtown is certainly no worse than it was right before COVID as a place to spend time but the discourse is worse. 2020 protests and emptied out downtowns that gave way to more crime and some egregious things that got put in front of people on tv and social media. The “crime is up no matter what you say” and “cities especially downtowns are unsafe for families” is just a fact for many people. Roster management didn’t quite work out and there hasn’t been preseason hopes for a contender nor a complete surprise turnaround during the last couple seasons.
I lived in a few baseball cities and am not from St. Louis. Cardinals fans are the best fans in baseball in my opinion and they will continue to be. Not a single franchise hasn’t gone through some apathetic periods including the Yankees and Red Sox.
Keep improving the area around the ballpark for fans, get creative with the fan experience, do whatever you can to connect fans with the players you are going to have, be positive and grateful for the fans, show some signs of a plan/rebuild for a contender.
Lots of factors. I think the team the last couple years had honestly been fun and played way above the actual talent on the roster. Most predictors had the Cardinals winning less than 70 games and in last place in the central. They just didn’t have enough juice but the team really performed on the field better than expected.
Enjoy the weather, support downtown businesses and see the team before you’re sitting up waiting for opening day all winter. That’s what I say
Cardinals fans just would not be able to go through a deep rebuild like other teams have gone through without having horrible attendance. I'm not saying the Cardinals don't have fans or even that they're fake or exceptionally bad, they just aren't exceptionally good like they think they are.
Maybe you should actually pay attention to the team and the things happening around it before trying to comment on it like you are an expert.Debaliviere91 wrote: ↑Sep 08, 2025What’s the rebuild? Show me the plan and I’ll buy in. There isn’t one.Auggie wrote: ↑Sep 08, 2025I would put the Cubs, Giants, and Rockies fans above Cardinals fans at a minimum. Mariners fans also have to be up there for the 20 years of sh*t that they went through.delmar2debaliviere2downtown wrote: ↑Sep 08, 2025I do think the Cardinals fans intentionally not going are doing so a little early on in this middling era “to make their voice heard with money”. I also think the age group that fills the stands with their family grew up with a run of Cardinals season that spoiled them a bit and they got apathetic quickly when the team wasn’t going for a WS (it wasn’t part of their fandom experience to long and hope year after year which is a learned fandom). Downtown is certainly no worse than it was right before COVID as a place to spend time but the discourse is worse. 2020 protests and emptied out downtowns that gave way to more crime and some egregious things that got put in front of people on tv and social media. The “crime is up no matter what you say” and “cities especially downtowns are unsafe for families” is just a fact for many people. Roster management didn’t quite work out and there hasn’t been preseason hopes for a contender nor a complete surprise turnaround during the last couple seasons.
I lived in a few baseball cities and am not from St. Louis. Cardinals fans are the best fans in baseball in my opinion and they will continue to be. Not a single franchise hasn’t gone through some apathetic periods including the Yankees and Red Sox.
Keep improving the area around the ballpark for fans, get creative with the fan experience, do whatever you can to connect fans with the players you are going to have, be positive and grateful for the fans, show some signs of a plan/rebuild for a contender.
Lots of factors. I think the team the last couple years had honestly been fun and played way above the actual talent on the roster. Most predictors had the Cardinals winning less than 70 games and in last place in the central. They just didn’t have enough juice but the team really performed on the field better than expected.
Enjoy the weather, support downtown businesses and see the team before you’re sitting up waiting for opening day all winter. That’s what I say
Cardinals fans just would not be able to go through a deep rebuild like other teams have gone through without having horrible attendance. I'm not saying the Cardinals don't have fans or even that they're fake or exceptionally bad, they just aren't exceptionally good like they think they are.
The team is an average rotation away from being in the Wild Card. This season, they have a W% over 600 when Mikolas, Pallante, or Fedde are not starting. The offense is solid and the bullpen is disgusting even without Helsley and Maton.
I'd expect guys like JJ Wetherholt and Quinn Matthews to get a shot in MLB next year too.
The fact you somehow think there is no plan here is actually pretty hilarious but on par for a Cardinals fan. But then again, this 72-72 team feels like a 40-100 team to Cardinals fans.
Edit: For reference, this offense is 16th in runs with a $35 million black hole at 3rd base and guys like Herrera and Burleson, and recently Donovan all missing significant time.