St. Louis Cardinals

JaneJacobsGhost · PostAug 02, 2025#10012025-08-02T18:13+00:00

Tl;dr

If it’s just bread and circuses we don’t need 500 words from you on the subject.

55-56 now

Pythag is 54-57

Trade deadline grades have ranged from mediocre to poor.

Feels like the tailspin is going to continue which sucks because no matter the final record, the Cardinals can’t pick in the top-10 next draft.

PostAug 25, 2025#10022025-08-25T13:23+00:00

Cardinals brass continues to push the limits organizational ineptitude.

Star shortstop and best player, Masyn Winn, has been playing through a bum knee in a season that doesn’t matter.

And it’s not just a tweak. An MRI in early July revealed damage to the knee and the Cardinals have let him play anyway. Now he’s going to IL and getting another MRI.

delmar2debaliviere2downtown · PostAug 26, 2025#10032025-08-26T16:57+00:00

Baseball accounts officially pushing the first Cardinals under 20,000 attendance at Busch. Everyone ragging on “the best fans in baseball”. Though the falloff does not look great, there is little recognition that almost every other team except for the Yankees and Red Sox have definitely posted multiple under 20,000 days. Some teams like the Marlins, White Sox, Reds, Pirates, Brewers, Rays, As, Mariners, Royals, Guardians, Tigers, Twins, Nationals, Orioles have posted these kind of numbers (and worse) weekly for years when they are mediocre or bad. So maybe parading a little bit, when it’s actually impressive that it’s the first time in at least 20 years that it’s happened. For instance, the Royals have posted 29 home games with under 20,000 just this year and nobody blinked an eye.

So while it is bad to see it happen at Busch, this whole acting like Cardinals fans don’t support…ummm look at that stat. Actually quite impressive

Auggie · PostAug 26, 2025#10042025-08-26T18:34+00:00

It was weird last night because while actual attendance was ~12k, the suites were 61/63 occupied, Green Seats were 95% occupied, Champs Club and 703 Club were ~80% occupied. But Red Jacket had almost no one, and only 2 party suites showed up.

Ultimately, the attendance drop is because kids are back in school. But like I said at the start of the season, massive drop in attendance across the board.

I've also heard that internally, there is not that much frustration or blame with Marmol. So he is currently more than likely to return next year. So the fans won't like that.

Hopefully with a couple years of more regular revenue, ownership will feel more comfortable making bigger moves to move the team from .500 to actually a wild card contender.

rbb · PostAug 27, 2025#10052025-08-27T20:14+00:00

Honestly Marmol is doing a pretty good job given the roster he's had to work with. This team should be a lot closer to the Pirates' record than the Reds' record at this point in the year. He's not perfect, but he's not the issue, and the players seem to enjoy playing for him. I'm quite fine with giving him a chance under a Bloom-built roster.

But Chaim has to have authorization from the owners to spend and/or make big, less-safe moves. That's my bigger worry currently.

-RBB

JaneJacobsGhost · PostAug 27, 2025#10062025-08-27T21:01+00:00

You can tell pretty easily whether a fan is intelligent or not based on whether they blame Marmol for this teams’ problems the last 3-4 years

delmar2debaliviere2downtown · PostSep 05, 2025#10072025-09-05T04:47+00:00

The Anheuser Busch sign has been well lit up lately with its animations along 40. I wonder if Cardinals would ever consider putting it in Busch? Would be a really fun unique StL feature to light up with the animations when there’s a home run to go off with the fireworks and flares. Busch Stadium is a great stadium, but such an iconic St. Louis sign could bring it full circle StL with the red brick, view of the arch and the AB neon sign. Wasn’t this sign originally in Sportsman Park? It just seems odd for such an awesome sign to be on an abandoned building along the highway. Would love to see it in the outfield concourse/platforms at Busch or overlooking the stadium

JaneJacobsGhost · PostSep 05, 2025#10082025-09-05T12:13+00:00

The Cardinals don’t invest in the fan experience

dweebe · PostSep 05, 2025#10092025-09-05T13:08+00:00

JaneJacobsGhost wrote: ↑
Sep 05, 2025
The Cardinals don’t invest in the fan experience

Having been to a number of games in other cities these last two years: the Cardinals are definitely mid-pack. They've been coasting on past glory.

delmar2debaliviere2downtown · PostSep 05, 2025#10102025-09-05T13:38+00:00

The experience at Busch Stadium is pretty good…it’s been down the last couple years yes but for instance, Cincinnati is supposed to be this really good sports city and comparable to StL and the experience is rather poor compared to StL and they draw less than 20,000 multiple times a homestand (and people made a huge deal of the Cardinals doing it for the first time in 30 years this year).

I think when the team is struggling a bit, it may be a good time to invest in the fan experience. Teams go through down turns, it’s part of it. Busch Stadium is big for showing off our city though and it’s kept downtown at least surviving the last 40 years.

Things like bringing in the AB animation sign (no idea what that would take), figuring out how to get more local food options in the stadium, more pregame/postgame events at BPV, refreshing between the inning experience such as the games and take me out to the ballgame, more instances of the clydesdales and similar traditions, more perks for season ticket holders could bring some energy back to the park the next coupe years. Obviously building out more of BPV and getting a plan together for more apartments and entertainment options on the lots around the stadium would really sustain more of the crowds down there daily

As an aside the 2026 schedule shows the Cardinals going to the Cubs again on 4th of July weekend…feels like the Cardinals got the short end of the stick there

dweebe · PostSep 05, 2025#10112025-09-05T14:37+00:00

delmar2debaliviere2downtown wrote: ↑
Sep 05, 2025
The experience at Busch Stadium is pretty good…it’s been down the last couple years yes but for instance, Cincinnati is supposed to be this really good sports city and comparable to StL and the experience is rather poor compared to StL and they draw less than 20,000 multiple times a homestand (and people made a huge deal of the Cardinals doing it for the first time in 30 years this year).

I think when the team is struggling a bit, it may be a good time to invest in the fan experience. Teams go through down turns, it’s part of it. Busch Stadium is big for showing off our city though and it’s kept downtown at least surviving the last 40 years.

Things like bringing in the AB animation sign (no idea what that would take), figuring out how to get more local food options in the stadium, more pregame/postgame events at BPV, refreshing between the inning experience such as the games and take me out to the ballgame, more instances of the clydesdales and similar traditions, more perks for season ticket holders could bring some energy back to the park the next coupe years. Obviously building out more of BPV and getting a plan together for more apartments and entertainment options on the lots around the stadium would really sustain more of the crowds down there daily

As an aside the 2026 schedule shows the Cardinals going to the Cubs again on 4th of July weekend…feels like the Cardinals got the short end of the stick there

As stated before we're not going to get local foods in Busch Stadium. Delaware North wants standardization in their venues and they're not going to change.

TalkinDev · PostSep 05, 2025#10122025-09-05T15:42+00:00

^ Understand that this is how the business goes, but ironically, the way STL City and Energizer Park does the food is much more conducive to the pace and structure of a baseball game than a soccer game with no breaks in the game and constant standing. For a baseball game, even in the downtimes Busch would make for a great "Food Hall" type of experience.

dweebe · PostSep 05, 2025#10132025-09-05T16:07+00:00

TalkinDev wrote: ↑
Sep 05, 2025
^ Understand that this is how the business goes, but ironically, the way STL City and Energizer Park does the food is much more conducive to the pace and structure of a baseball game than a soccer game with no breaks in the game and constant standing. For a baseball game, even in the downtimes Busch would make for a great "Food Hall" type of experience.

The difference is Levy is open to locals and collaborations. That's why Enterprise Center and Energizer Park have all the things they do.

Auggie · PostSep 05, 2025#10142025-09-05T17:31+00:00

In recent years, the Cardinals have added Session Taco, Mayo Ketchup, Freddy's, and Crumbl Cookie. They've expanded the cheaper food/drinks up at the Budweiser Terrace, and still allow you to bring in food from outside.

In the last year, I've been to games in Baltimore and Milwaukee, and we by far had the most interactive fan experience. I think the attendance problem largely comes down to fans feeling like ownership doesn't care and has little to do with "fan experience" or even food options.

dweebe · PostSep 05, 2025#10152025-09-05T18:55+00:00

Auggie wrote: ↑
Sep 05, 2025
In recent years, the Cardinals have added Session Taco, Mayo Ketchup, Freddy's, and Crumbl Cookie. They've expanded the cheaper food/drinks up at the Budweiser Terrace, and still allow you to bring in food from outside.

In the last year, I've been to games in Baltimore and Milwaukee, and we by far had the most interactive fan experience. I think the attendance problem largely comes down to fans feeling like ownership doesn't care and has little to do with "fan experience" or even food options.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but as I understand it it's just Delaware North Sportservice people selling that stuff done in-house or brought in warmers.

With Energizer and Enterprise I thought it's actually Steve's Hot Dogs employees, Shake Shack employees etc cooking and staffing at those places.

delmar2debaliviere2downtown · PostSep 05, 2025#10162025-09-05T19:18+00:00

Auggie wrote: ↑
Sep 05, 2025
In recent years, the Cardinals have added Session Taco, Mayo Ketchup, Freddy's, and Crumbl Cookie. They've expanded the cheaper food/drinks up at the Budweiser Terrace, and still allow you to bring in food from outside.

In the last year, I've been to games in Baltimore and Milwaukee, and we by far had the most interactive fan experience. I think the attendance problem largely comes down to fans feeling like ownership doesn't care and has little to do with "fan experience" or even food options.

I agree mostly but some changes to connect with the fans more, refreshing some entertainment and give people a more iconic Busch Stadium experience consistently (for instance, more odes to Sportsman Park/Busch II for the longtime fans and Clydesdales “Fridays” or whatever) more may bring another 5-10K depending on the day. Which can make a big difference over time.

When the team is not so good, there should still be fan experience things that are reason to go to the ballpark every couple weeks. The take me out to ballgame stretch, in between inning games, the ballpark food/drink offerings have just not been refreshed much in a while despite not being necessarily deep rooted traditions. For instance, even just brining in StL local business owners/known people/native celebrities to sing take me out to the ballgame and do some of the things the Blues do with certain music choices and hype things for big moments that become associated with the stadium experience (hence my AB neon animation sign suggestion) I think would go a long way

Auggie · PostSep 05, 2025#10172025-09-05T19:22+00:00

dweebe wrote: ↑
Sep 05, 2025
Auggie wrote: ↑
Sep 05, 2025
In recent years, the Cardinals have added Session Taco, Mayo Ketchup, Freddy's, and Crumbl Cookie. They've expanded the cheaper food/drinks up at the Budweiser Terrace, and still allow you to bring in food from outside.

In the last year, I've been to games in Baltimore and Milwaukee, and we by far had the most interactive fan experience. I think the attendance problem largely comes down to fans feeling like ownership doesn't care and has little to do with "fan experience" or even food options.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but as I understand it it's just Delaware North Sportservice people selling that stuff done in-house or brought in warmers.

With Energizer and Enterprise I thought it's actually Steve's Hot Dogs employees, Shake Shack employees etc cooking and staffing at those places.

I'm pretty sure Mayo Katchup is outside employees, because they technically are not in a "food bay" per say. I could he wrong though.

At Enterprise, it depends. Steve's Hot Dogs is their employees, but Shake Shack is not, for example. I don't know at Energizer, I don't work there and I've never been since I'm not a big soccer fan.

dweebe · PostSep 05, 2025#10182025-09-05T19:53+00:00

If anything food is the last of the Cardinals problems. At this point I'd take basic hot dogs, nachos (chips and cheese only) and stale popcorn as the only food options in the entire stadium if it meant a caring front office and a decent product on the field.

Auggie · PostSep 05, 2025#10192025-09-05T20:06+00:00

dweebe wrote: ↑
Sep 05, 2025
If anything food is the last of the Cardinals problems. At this point I'd take basic hot dogs, nachos (chips and cheese only) and stale popcorn as the only food options in the entire stadium if it meant a caring front office and a decent product on the field.

It also always needs to be added that you can bring any food into Busch while neither Enterprise or Energizer allow you to.

DogtownBnR · PostSep 08, 2025#10202025-09-08T12:05+00:00

As we all know, the Cardinals attendance has been bad this year. I was at the game last Friday night. There was a good crowd (for this season), but the upper deck was sparse. Why not offer $5 beers & $3 hot dogs? That would get people there for a 'cheapER' party, kind of like the fans at Wrigley when the Cubs are bad. Make it a party-atmosphere with music & other things to get butts in the seats. It is going to be a while before the Cards are good again, so they are going to need to be creative.

JaneJacobsGhost · PostSep 08, 2025#10212025-09-08T13:08+00:00

The young cardinals demographic has been asking this question for ages. So the team built the party deck that’s blasted by sun most of the game (all game on day games) and the space is generally overrun with jimmy buffet style boomers.

Anyway, I couldn’t agree more with you. Whether it is a space in the bleachers or somewhere in left field, there should be a bigger party section.

The Cardinals obsession with a cultivating a Christian, family atmosphere at the ballpark has been a bad long term decision imo

delmar2debaliviere2downtown · PostSep 08, 2025#10222025-09-08T13:21+00:00

I’m not sure if Wrigley has had $5 beers since Haray Caray was calling. Wrigley is always top 5 in cost of beer and near top on concession cost. Busch is actually usually middle of the pack

But yes creating energy and drawing people via different reasons is possible. Hence my suggestions the other day. Get a former player or celebrity up there singing take me out to the ballgame (that’s something Wrigley does), not a 3rd grade class

DogtownBnR · PostSep 08, 2025#10232025-09-08T13:29+00:00

^I was not suggesting Wrigley does that. The $5 beer thing was an idea for Busch. The Cubs do not have to sell cheap beer/HDs to get revelers to show up. It is their culture. I'd prefer the Cardinals develop & sign players, compete for championships, but if we have to rebuild for several years, might as well make it a big party where people are having so much fun, they do not care about the results. That was my Friday night

TalkinDev · PostSep 08, 2025#10242025-09-08T15:34+00:00

This discussion made me think of a tweet I saw this morning...
102 loss Rockies draw 43,000

Might be a one off, as their average attendance is only 2,000 higher than the Cardinals, but the Rockies are perennially bad.

Auggie · PostSep 08, 2025#10252025-09-08T15:37+00:00

DogtownBnR wrote: ↑
Sep 08, 2025
As we all know, the Cardinals attendance has been bad this year. I was at the game last Friday night. There was a good crowd (for this season), but the upper deck was sparse. Why not offer $5 beers & $3 hot dogs? That would get people there for a 'cheapER' party, kind of like the fans at Wrigley when the Cubs are bad. Make it a party-atmosphere with music & other things to get butts in the seats. It is going to be a while before the Cards are good again, so they are going to need to be creative.

The Budweiser Terrace has $5 beer, $6 margaritas, and $5 hot dogs.

St. Louis Cardinals

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