You forgot number of microwavesTheWayoftheArch_V2.0 wrote: ↑Jan 07, 2025They look at median household income, number of college degrees, number of advanced degrees and a couple other metrics, IIRC.
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Probably carries the highest weighted value, haha
I just really really wish Primark would take a good, hard look at the city. Downtown or downtown west are perfect for their model and target demographic retail price point.Chris Stritzel wrote: ↑Jan 07, 2025I think Downtown will get a Dunkin' Donuts, especially as the hundreds of apartments down there are refreshed and the new ones open. Downtown will be getting an influx in new residents.
Central West End or Midtown would become home to a Crumbl cookie.
As for retailers, I think Washington Avenue could eventually pick up some stores like Woodward has in Detroit. There's no reason Downtown STL can't have a H&M and Nike.
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Never knew what happened with this Patagonia and Zara information related to the Foundry. There had to have been some smoke - https://nextstl.com/2017/02/city-foundr ... ly-others/chris fuller wrote: ↑Jan 08, 2025ok
than lets bump it up
Zara (in Skokie IL Nashville TN)
https://www.zara.com/us/
For the Trader Joe’s, I guess we could bump up StL City’s place in line or make up for our demographics with the store requester - https://www.traderjoes.com/home/contact ... st-a-store
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Patagonia was looking into (or at least rumored for) the ground floor of Chase Park Plaza on Maryland
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What's the deal with this COSM thing. Plenty of room for one of these downtown. No longer having an NFL team would be considered a big selling point!
^ Cool, a mini version of the interior of MSG Sphere. Would love to see something like this in BPV or DTW.
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Anybody hoping for Wash Ave to return to its former status as a nightlife destination can probably put those hopes to rest. Sarah Fenske interviewed Alex Oliver of Oliver Properties on the 314 podcast and he if of the opinion that nightlife doesn't belong downtown. They will pretty much have control over liquor licenses in the area as well.
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Woof, not sure I agree with that one. Nightlife makes a city “fun” to visitors and attracts young people to areas where it is more abundant.
I would be okay creating better connections between downtown and soulard via clean up, better sidewalks, lightning and landscaping, and a wonderful Broadway streetcar that I dream of, and focusing nightlife efforts in that part of downtown (BPV, Broadway/4th street district) but I don’t think we should root out downtown nightlife. The one thing downtown has going for it is visitors for events - whether sports games, concerts, conventions. More nightlife encourages these people to hang around downtown for longer and spend money and makes a better impression as a “fun” city, driving in more tourism, visitors, and thus vibrancy downtown.
Nightlife doesnt mean night clubs, as those aren’t even popular anymore outside of basically Miami and NYC. A mix of patio bars, taprooms, bar and grills, breweries, cocktail lounges, wine bars, small live music bars throughout all of downtown would only make life for residents, workers, and visitors better downtown.
I would be okay creating better connections between downtown and soulard via clean up, better sidewalks, lightning and landscaping, and a wonderful Broadway streetcar that I dream of, and focusing nightlife efforts in that part of downtown (BPV, Broadway/4th street district) but I don’t think we should root out downtown nightlife. The one thing downtown has going for it is visitors for events - whether sports games, concerts, conventions. More nightlife encourages these people to hang around downtown for longer and spend money and makes a better impression as a “fun” city, driving in more tourism, visitors, and thus vibrancy downtown.
Nightlife doesnt mean night clubs, as those aren’t even popular anymore outside of basically Miami and NYC. A mix of patio bars, taprooms, bar and grills, breweries, cocktail lounges, wine bars, small live music bars throughout all of downtown would only make life for residents, workers, and visitors better downtown.
Downtown wants less nightlife and Clayton wants more. What backwards world am I living in?GoHarvOrGoHome wrote: ↑Mar 11, 2025Anybody hoping for Wash Ave to return to its former status as a nightlife destination can probably put those hopes to rest. Sarah Fenske interviewed Alex Oliver of Oliver Properties on the 314 podcast and he if of the opinion that nightlife doesn't belong downtown. They will pretty much have control over liquor licenses in the area as well.
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Sarah did her best to dig deeper into what Alex was saying, but he was pretty firm that he doesn't like drinking establishments open late as it attracts crime. He cited the recent shooting outside of Wheelhouse and blamed the decline of the Landing on nightlife. Surprisingly he never mentioned Reign, which I feel would have been the obvious example.
I do still think that his investments will be overall positive for Wash Ave, I hope he has a little flexibility though to at least allow traditional bar and restaurant concepts to operate with 1:30 licenses (IE I really hope the Flannery's space gets revived as another Irish Bar)
It would be a shame to see the sidewalks of Wash Ave mostly rolled up after 11pm
I do still think that his investments will be overall positive for Wash Ave, I hope he has a little flexibility though to at least allow traditional bar and restaurant concepts to operate with 1:30 licenses (IE I really hope the Flannery's space gets revived as another Irish Bar)
It would be a shame to see the sidewalks of Wash Ave mostly rolled up after 11pm
I worked in security in Indianapolis overnight and we definitely would have issues pretty much every Friday and Saturday night with bars closing at 3 AM. All the drunks get pushed out onto the street and start ***** with everything.
There's merit to this argument, especially if you want to make downtown a living neighborhood.
There's merit to this argument, especially if you want to make downtown a living neighborhood.
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I would present a counter argument - Wash Ave at it's height, say 2009, was attracting tons of people to live nearby and in the new lofts. It was the hot place in the city, in a virtuous cycle. Then the bars started closing, new bars were mostly not allowed, and what has since happened to Wash Ave? The market has completely stagnated.
The lofts were built for people who wanted to be close to the action, and instead of moving somewhere else when growing tired of the action, they just tried to shut down the action. Today the street is just as loud as it was before, still plenty of loitering and cruising, but without the fun nightlife.
IMO Downtown should be a place for everything. If there is one place in the city for nightlife, downtown makes the most sense.
The lofts were built for people who wanted to be close to the action, and instead of moving somewhere else when growing tired of the action, they just tried to shut down the action. Today the street is just as loud as it was before, still plenty of loitering and cruising, but without the fun nightlife.
IMO Downtown should be a place for everything. If there is one place in the city for nightlife, downtown makes the most sense.
I'm not really arguing in favor or against. I'm just saying that downtown Indianapolis definitely had some issues with drunks after the bars closed and that there is merit to his points. I would have to be more educated on the issue to hold an actual position.GoHarvOrGoHome wrote: ↑Mar 12, 2025I would present a counter argument - Wash Ave at it's height, say 2009, was attracting tons of people to live nearby and in the new lofts. It was the hot place in the city, in a virtuous cycle. Then the bars started closing, new bars were mostly not allowed, and what has since happened to Wash Ave? The market has completely stagnated.
The lofts were built for people who wanted to be close to the action, and instead of moving somewhere else when growing tired of the action, they just tried to shut down the action. Today the street is just as loud as it was before, still plenty of loitering and cruising, but without the fun nightlife.
IMO Downtown should be a place for everything. If there is one place in the city for nightlife, downtown makes the most sense.
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Theory: Limit downtown liquor licenses to midnight/1 a.m. and extend licenses in other, outlying neighborhoods to 2 a.m./3 a.m. so that the party disperses across the city as the night/morning progresses.
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I'll also add that all of Downtown's new construction residential of the past decade has been adjacent to 3am nightlife options. Small sample size, but still relevant.
The pipeline of young people who like going out to a certain bar then deciding to live nearby is real.
The pipeline of young people who like going out to a certain bar then deciding to live nearby is real.
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Don’t think that would work; it may in midtown as it’s not as residential as soulard and Lafayette sqBlack02AltimaSE wrote: ↑Mar 12, 2025Theory: Limit downtown liquor licenses to midnight/1 a.m. and extend licenses in other, outlying neighborhoods to 2 a.m./3 a.m. so that the party disperses across the city as the night/morning progresses.
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Downtown needs to be an everything neighborhood to work. We need year round, all day activity. Office workers, residential, tourists, sporting events and concerts, restaurants, and nightlife. Again, not every nightlife spot will be a Miami club from the 80s. We don’t have to make Washington Ave into Broadway in Nashville. But it can’t just be void of places for people to go out after 10 pm.
I’m okay with “controlling” the liquor licenses if that means we are cognizant of creating mixed nightlife and drinking establishments for variety of options and closing times, but it would be negative for downtown for residential developers to try to root out nightlife spots and any late night activity. Part of that is what makes a city, a city. That’s what people want in urban centers at least to an extent- the people living there and visiting there want nightlife. Otherwise, they would likely choose a small town, exurb, quiet suburb etc.
I’m okay with “controlling” the liquor licenses if that means we are cognizant of creating mixed nightlife and drinking establishments for variety of options and closing times, but it would be negative for downtown for residential developers to try to root out nightlife spots and any late night activity. Part of that is what makes a city, a city. That’s what people want in urban centers at least to an extent- the people living there and visiting there want nightlife. Otherwise, they would likely choose a small town, exurb, quiet suburb etc.
Late night dance bars have always been the first to place a stake in areas which see future gentrification. Typically these are not mainstream bars like Wheelhouse, BPV or Reign. In the late 80's-early 90's Twist, 1227, Evolution and Tangerine lead the charge on Washington Ave. The Grove saw the same thing with Novaks, Attitudes and others in the late 90's-early 2000's. Right now, Mississippi Underground is setting the same trend on the North RIverfront. These types of bars draw a younger, adventurous clientele who embrace underground music in an urban environment. The crowds are diverse and accepting of all individuals. The bro/karen idiots who cause problems do not hang at these places and disruptive issues are not anywhere near what the mainstream places encounter.
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If by "nightlife" he means a casino and hotel tearing everything down, then maybe. I know this isn't you saying this, but . . . holy cow, some people. The Landing was nightlife. I'm not sure how nightlife would make nightlife decline.GoHarvOrGoHome wrote: ↑Mar 12, 2025[ . . . ] and blamed the decline of the Landing on nightlife.
https://www.stltoday.com/news/local/bus ... bde62.html
City is putting $100k more into the downtown retail incentive program, Greater STL Inc to put in $250k more.
The program was created last year and aided 11 businesses out of three 40 that applied.
City is putting $100k more into the downtown retail incentive program, Greater STL Inc to put in $250k more.
The program was created last year and aided 11 businesses out of three 40 that applied.
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Bella's Frozen Yogurt will be converting itself into a coffee shop over the next few months. Same people, just changing concepts
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This program has been a failure and waste of money. One of its few successes is closing and moving to Delmer, The Passport BarAuggie wrote: ↑May 16, 2025https://www.stltoday.com/news/local/bus ... bde62.html
City is putting $100k more into the downtown retail incentive program, Greater STL Inc to put in $250k more.
The program was created last year and aided 11 businesses out of three 40 that applied.
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Seems like getting any sustainable downtown retail is just impossible for us. What programs are being successful in other cities?