urbanSTL

Potential high rises (actual real high rises) under construction in the next 4 years -

- Albion 
- AHM in Downtown West 
- Millennium tower
- BPV Phase III 

That is about 2 decades worth of high rise construction for the city in 4 years 

My initial thoughts are positive, although I'd still like to see the Millennium saved and integrated into the overall project. Lots more to see and learn on this one, but this could be great.

Any mention of the architect?

framer wrote: ↑

Feb 19, 2025

My initial thoughts are positive, although I'd still like to see the Millennium saved and integrated into the overall project. Lots more to see and learn on this one,  but this could be great.

Any mention of the architect?

Would love to see all of this new development while at the same time keep the Millennium Tower, but we know that is not feasible. 

That being said, I watched the old Arena get imploded (that was painful)  so I'm sure I can watch the Millennium come down in the name of progress.

As a possible skyline changer I’m having a margarita to this.


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its Cordish. 

Cara last year proposed a bill that this site be taken via eminent domain ( to this date nobody is sure why and she hasnt explained it either)  as the Mayor was instructing SLDC to work with GAPF to develop a plan.  nobody is really sure why Cara has no involvement with ATT tower while Alder Aldridge was getting a tour with the developer. 

Exactly. God the Tishuara hate is so unnecessary here. You don’t need to infect this thread with mayoral politics as well.

^ agreed that the Tishaura hate is not necessary here, matguy. likewise, DB, can we not drag the propaganda into every f*cking thread? Cara's bill was in response to the owner not being responsive, not unlike in the Railway case. why is it okay for Tishaura to pursue ED but not okay for Cara to propose it? don't be a hypocrite.

A few thoughts on the chosen proposal...

• The selection of Cordish will certainly raise some eyebrows at the City level as Cordish, and the Cardinals, have a massive incentive district already approved at Ballpark Village. The total dollar amount invested in Ballpark Village (so far) is $360 Million (or $310 Million less than this proposal). The City, or some in it, are likely going to have questions for Cordish for how they'll be able to deliver this project in a decent amount of time while Ballpark Village has been ongoing for over 19 years at this point and is only half developed. Yes, we're all aware that a phase 3 is likely on the horizon, but the City is going to want some guarantees out of this and I don't blame them one bit.
• The inclusion of skyline changing tower (45-stories) in this initial concept is significant. It shows that Cordish knows the value of having unobstructed views of the Arch Grounds and will likely capitalize on that view. As a result, I expect the rents in this tower to be among the highest in the region, maybe even meeting the rents 3 Light gets in KC. I do expect that this component would be the first to be cut down in height, but as it presently stands, it shows an ambitious angle that few have presented in St. Louis in decades.
• Additionally, this gives us a look at what the future of Downtown St. Louis will be like once you get the big vacant buildings (AT&T and Railway) knocked out. You might still need to deal with the Chemical Building and the former Crowne Plaza, but projects like this will be more common once you take care of the huge vacant buildings. 
• The office space component is interesting in itself as Cordish is also pursuing office (and Thompson Coburn) at Ballpark Village. This makes me wonder if TC will instead look at this development instead of Ballpark Village. While Ballpark Village has restaurants and a transit connection built into it, this new project offers a world-class view of the Arch and the ability to slap your own rooftop sign on the office building fronting the postcard shot from the East Riverfront.
• I do wish Cordish would swing its relationship with Loews to include a Loews Hotel at this site. They already have the Live! By Loews at Ballpark Village, but that shouldn't stop them from trying to go for the main Loews. They have both a Live! and standard Loews at their development in Arlington Texas.
• Based on the building design alone, this looks like a Lamar Johnson Collaborative design. It gives me "One Fulton Market" (https://theljc.com/projects/170-n-green) vibes. Considering Cordish has used Hord Coplan Macht for many of their projects, including One Cardinal Way, and how they moved on to Beyer Blinder Belle for 4 Light in Kansas City, it would make sense if they went with a different architect here.
• I'm curious what the timeline for this project looks like. There doesn't appear to be any specifics yet (besides overall scope and project cost), but we do know that the Arch Park Foundation still has the property under contract, this project goes before the LCRA next week, the Preservation Board will likely need to review this proposal, Board of Adjustment will need to approve the height variance, the FAA might need to approve the new building height, and so on. While demolition activity might be able to start in the Spring, it wouldn't surprise me if Cordish waited until next year to proceed with actual construction.
• We can always find reason to inject politics into projects like this, but I strongly believe both Tishaura and Cara are both excited about this opportunity. It's more about the image you want to give to our visitors and be a catalyst for downtown's redevelopment (something both of them want). I'm sure the same can be said by a majority of the Aldermen and other City officials. It doesn't take much of a brain to recognize the revenue opportunity this project presents for the City. Property, sales and earnings tax revenues generated by this project will far exceed most all new projects done in the City in recent years.

When the RFP first was announced, I didn't expect such a response. So, this is huge positive. Looking forward to watching construction whenever I come back to visit.

Chris Stritzel wrote: ↑

Feb 19, 2025

A few thoughts on the chosen proposal...

• The selection of Cordish will certainly raise some eyebrows at the City level as Cordish, and the Cardinals, have a massive incentive district already approved at Ballpark Village. The total dollar amount invested in Ballpark Village (so far) is $360 Million (or $310 Million less than this proposal). The City, or some in it, are likely going to have questions for Cordish for how they'll be able to deliver this project in a decent amount of time while Ballpark Village has been ongoing for over 19 years at this point and is only half developed. Yes, we're all aware that a phase 3 is likely on the horizon, but the City is going to want some guarantees out of this and I don't blame them one bit.
• The inclusion of skyline changing tower (45-stories) in this initial concept is significant. It shows that Cordish knows the value of having unobstructed views of the Arch Grounds and will likely capitalize on that view. As a result, I expect the rents in this tower to be among the highest in the region, maybe even meeting the rents 3 Light gets in KC. I do expect that this component would be the first to be cut down in height, but as it presently stands, it shows an ambitious angle that few have presented in St. Louis in decades.
• Additionally, this gives us a look at what the future of Downtown St. Louis will be like once you get the big vacant buildings (AT&T and Railway) knocked out. You might still need to deal with the Chemical Building and the former Crowne Plaza, but projects like this will be more common once you take care of the huge vacant buildings. 
• The office space component is interesting in itself as Cordish is also pursuing office (and Thompson Coburn) at Ballpark Village. This makes me wonder if TC will instead look at this development instead of Ballpark Village. While Ballpark Village has restaurants and a transit connection built into it, this new project offers a world-class view of the Arch and the ability to slap your own rooftop sign on the office building fronting the postcard shot from the East Riverfront.
• I do wish Cordish would swing its relationship with Loews to include a Loews Hotel at this site. They already have the Live! By Loews at Ballpark Village, but that shouldn't stop them from trying to go for the main Loews. They have both a Live! and standard Loews at their development in Arlington Texas.
• Based on the building design alone, this looks like a Lamar Johnson Collaborative design. It gives me "One Fulton Market" (https://theljc.com/projects/170-n-green) vibes. Considering Cordish has used Hord Coplan Macht for many of their projects, including One Cardinal Way, and how they moved on to Beyer Blinder Belle for 4 Light in Kansas City, it would make sense if they went with a different architect here.
• I'm curious what the timeline for this project looks like. There doesn't appear to be any specifics yet (besides overall scope and project cost), but we do know that the Arch Park Foundation still has the property under contract, this project goes before the LCRA next week, the Preservation Board will likely need to review this proposal, Board of Adjustment will need to approve the height variance, the FAA might need to approve the new building height, and so on. While demolition activity might be able to start in the Spring, it wouldn't surprise me if Cordish waited until next year to proceed with actual construction.
• We can always find reason to inject politics into projects like this, but I strongly believe both Tishaura and Cara are both excited about this opportunity. It's more about the image you want to give to our visitors and be a catalyst for downtown's redevelopment (something both of them want). I'm sure the same can be said by a majority of the Aldermen and other City officials. It doesn't take much of a brain to recognize the revenue opportunity this project presents for the City. Property, sales and earnings tax revenues generated by this project will far exceed most all new projects done in the City in recent years.

When the RFP first was announced, I didn't expect such a response. So, this is huge positive. Looking forward to watching construction whenever I come back to visit.

Thanks for the comments & insights Chris. Definitely a game-changer for Downtown! Can't imagine there will be many against this project. 

I hope the city says no demolition until the full project is funded and guaranteed somehow.  Kirkwood allowed the handsome Commerce Bank building in downtown Kirkwood on a prominent Lindbergh corner to be torn down.  Then the apartment complex approved for the site fell through, and the city is stuck with a chain link fenced empty lot in the middle of town with For Sale signs on it.  

The LCRA board approved up to 90% tax abatement for up to 20 years last August September. 

Chris mentions the slow timeline of BPV but is that the fault of Cordish or the Cardinals? Cordish has been making good progress on other projects such as P&L over in KC so they seem to have a track record.

Reminds me a bit of the Hudson Building in Detroit in terms of size and scope. I've been saying for a while that if cities like Detroit, Milwaukee, and Cleveland can build modern new skyscrapers, St. Louis can too, we just need a developer to go do it. So hopefully this is ours.

If they start demolition by April as Wither says, that would be insane and I'm all here for it.

As for Cordish, I think this would definitely mean that the Cardinals are who's holding up BPV, but it also seems like their major holdup is office space and getting a tenant. So I'm interested to see exactly how much office space they want in this development. I can't imagine more than 300k sf, my guess would be 150k sf.

Looks like a great plan and we'll beyond what my expectations were. But as others have said, we have seen big plans before that go nowhere. So we can't celebrate yet. But this is a massive positive step forward.

I think choosing Cordish says a lot. They want BPV to succeed, they want the connection to the arch. The rest are all on board as well. It is a win win for all.of them and the city.
The food hall isn't so interesting ... as I would think this would fuel and feed (no pun intended) the arch visitors and crowds. There is no dining along the arch grounds and other than Carmine's, Ruth Cris, and Starbucks (especially with the Covid closures of Calicos and the demise of Hardee's, Bread Co, TGIF and others along Keiner Plaza... they need this.

pdm_ad wrote: ↑

Feb 19, 2025

Chris mentions the slow timeline of BPV but is that the fault of Cordish or the Cardinals? Cordish has been making good progress on other projects such as P&L over in KC so they seem to have a track record.

Cardinals are to blame, but Cordish is connected to them with Ballpark Village. Some might be skeptical of there ability to get it done based on that project's slow track record. I do think Cordish has proved itself in Kansas City with their increasingly aggressive building schedule. I think Ballpark Village would've been fully developed by now if Cordish was the only one connected to it.

urban_dilettante wrote: ↑

Feb 19, 2025

^ agreed that the Tishaura hate is not necessary here, matguy. likewise, DB, can we not drag the propaganda into every f*cking thread? Cara's bill was in response to the owner not being responsive, not unlike in the Railway case. why is it okay for Tishaura to pursue ED but not okay for Cara to propose it? don't be a hypocrite.

Because the owner of millenium was being responsive and actively working to sell it and the owner of railway wasn’t.

responsive to whom? if the Jones admin was in talks with the owner, they should have shared that info. the property wasn't listed for sale until after ED was floated. you're really contorting yourself to make this look like some kind of blunder on Cara's part, which it clearly wasn't. it was impelling at best and benign at worst.

“We are in favor of moving forward with an eminent domain resolution,” said Zach Wilson, vice president of economic development incentives at the St. Louis Development Corporation at last month’s meeting. “Anywhere else this would be prime real estate to be developed immediately.”

It appears the city’s posture may be working. Since the possibility of eminent domain first came up in March, the property has been listed for sale with commercial real estate firm JLL leading the efforts to sell the property.

https://www.stlpr.org/economy-business/2024-04-23/st-louis-millennium-hotel-eminent-domain-threats-development

The people buying it were in contact with the owner since 2023.    

^ and who had access to that information? and was there any kind of contract?