urbanSTL

ldai_phs wrote: ↑

Feb 07, 2025

Jallen26 wrote:

addxb2 wrote: ↑

Feb 06, 2025

Ironically, this much detail didn’t convince me that they can get it done. Just makes it seem like even more of a challenge.


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There is absolutely zero chance that this project is completed at the current scale they have proposed. Will either be significantly pared back or return to market in five years.

What is this developers track record? As I recall, nothing similar but do they have partners now?. It’s hard to have faith when bigger well funded developers couldn’t make it work.

They have done some great projects including conversions of older industrial assets to multi-family, just nothing of this complexity. There is just not a lot of confidence from folks that I have talked to that they can secure the capital to get this rolling. I bet it get scaled back significantly, but I’ll always root for someone who makes a bet on St. Louis.

https://www.thegoldmangroup.com/portfolio

Anything is possible & I say they have a legit shot at getting it done they seem confident. Rather be optimistic than doubtful


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Remember that basically half of the total cost will be covered with tax credits and incentives.

Jallen26 wrote: ↑

Feb 07, 2025

ldai_phs wrote: ↑

Feb 07, 2025

Jallen26 wrote:
There is absolutely zero chance that this project is completed at the current scale they have proposed. Will either be significantly pared back or return to market in five years.

What is this developers track record? As I recall, nothing similar but do they have partners now?. It’s hard to have faith when bigger well funded developers couldn’t make it work.

They have done some great projects including conversions of older industrial assets to multi-family, just nothing of this complexity. There is just not a lot of confidence from folks that I have talked to that they can secure the capital to get this rolling. I bet it get scaled back significantly, but I’ll always root for someone who makes a bet on St. Louis.

https://www.thegoldmangroup.com/portfolio

What if they capital secured already?

dbInSouthCity wrote:

Jallen26 wrote: ↑

Feb 07, 2025

ldai_phs wrote: ↑

Feb 07, 2025

What is this developers track record? As I recall, nothing similar but do they have partners now?. It’s hard to have faith when bigger well funded developers couldn’t make it work.

They have done some great projects including conversions of older industrial assets to multi-family, just nothing of this complexity. There is just not a lot of confidence from folks that I have talked to that they can secure the capital to get this rolling. I bet it get scaled back significantly, but I’ll always root for someone who makes a bet on St. Louis.

https://www.thegoldmangroup.com/portfolio

What if they capital secured already?

How much committed capital do they have?

Just wondering the same thing. How much of the overall project cost will be paid for through tax credits? What are the abatements, etc. worth?

I seem to remember these being pretty high...which actually gives me more hope that this will actually happen.

i have no doubt that he will ask for the max amount which is 30 years at 90% 

Welp. Probably worth it.

Black02AltimaSE wrote: ↑

Feb 06, 2025

Is it just me, or is the top of the building ill-suited for a rooftop pool?

The very top is pretty much full of utilities but one of those upper balconies could hold a long, skinny pool. You could potentially do a really cool infinity pool up there.

-RBB

JaneJacobsGhost wrote: ↑

Feb 07, 2025

Welp. Probably worth it.

Agreed, we should be throwing the kitchen sink at the CBD right now. 

Absolutely worth it. If we can get downtown clicking and vibrant again it likely outright solves our regional growth problems.

Jallen26 wrote: ↑

Feb 07, 2025

JaneJacobsGhost wrote: ↑

Feb 07, 2025

Welp. Probably worth it.

Agreed, we should be throwing the kitchen sink at the CBD right now. 

I appreciate that you feel that way but “we” means, for the most part, SLPS students and faculty. And those folks have frankly sacrificed enough.

Do you throw the kitchen sink at DT? What portion of your entertainment budget do you allocate downtown? Do you live, work or employ DT?

JaneJacobsGhost wrote:

Jallen26 wrote: ↑

Feb 07, 2025

JaneJacobsGhost wrote: ↑

Feb 07, 2025

Welp. Probably worth it.

Agreed, we should be throwing the kitchen sink at the CBD right now. 

I appreciate that you feel that way but “we” means, for the most part, SLPS students and faculty. And those folks have frankly sacrificed enough.

Do you throw the kitchen sink at DT? What portion of your entertainment budget do you allocate downtown? Do you live, work or employ DT?

They have a massive budget, dwindling students, terrible management, and refuse to acknowledge they need a restructuring.

I appreciate responsible use of incentives but even 10% taxes on this redeveloped building would be more for the school district than 100% of what it delivers today.

JaneJacobsGhost wrote:

Jallen26 wrote: ↑

Feb 07, 2025

JaneJacobsGhost wrote: ↑

Feb 07, 2025

Welp. Probably worth it.

Agreed, we should be throwing the kitchen sink at the CBD right now. 

I appreciate that you feel that way but “we” means, for the most part, SLPS students and faculty. And those folks have frankly sacrificed enough.

Do you throw the kitchen sink at DT? What portion of your entertainment budget do you allocate downtown? Do you live, work or employ DT?

If your of the opinion that we shouldn’t fund the incentives, why not just make that case instead of this?

Personally I wouldn’t be ok with funding this level of incentives if SLPS had a funding issue, but they don’t.

Because I’m tired of people who don’t invest sh*t in DT pontificating on how the city should allocate other taxpayer’s money DT

I don’t know who here is pontificating. People are just sharing their opinions on an Internet forum. Neither you nor I know anyone’s personal investment downtown either.

If you’re against the incentive, just state your case.

Debaliviere91 wrote:

JaneJacobsGhost wrote:

Jallen26 wrote: ↑

Feb 07, 2025

Agreed, we should be throwing the kitchen sink at the CBD right now. 

I appreciate that you feel that way but “we” means, for the most part, SLPS students and faculty. And those folks have frankly sacrificed enough.

Do you throw the kitchen sink at DT? What portion of your entertainment budget do you allocate downtown? Do you live, work or employ DT?

If your of the opinion that we shouldn’t fund the incentives, why not just make that case instead of this?

Personally I wouldn’t be ok with funding this level of incentives if SLPS had a funding issue, but they don’t.

Incentives would just be redirecting the incremental increase. No reduction in what SLPS receives today?

I already said it’s probably worth it.

If it becomes law, I believe that the "Revitalizing Missouri Downtowns and Main Streets Act" could provide up to $50 million per year, but this project may need to compete with RRX for this one if it starts running behind and RRX gets expedited. I didn't read the full text, does anyone know whether a project like this could qualify over multiple years, or would it be a one-time subsidy?

Also, I think it is potentially eligible for up to $80 million in state and federal historic tax credits.

That could mean that about 1/3 to 1/2 of the funding ($100-$150 million) funded by tax credits alone. I'm not saying that's bad, just pointing it out.

Doesn't it already have 100mil assigned? 

Auggie wrote: ↑

Feb 06, 2025

As normal DB one ups the Business Journal lmao.

Do they have any idea what retailers they will pursue? And what is their idea in demand for this? Seems like they're going for pretty high luxary.

Actually he did not one up them, this was also described in the BJ Article.

TheWayoftheArch_V2.0 wrote: ↑

Feb 08, 2025

Okay, maybe someone can clarify for me, but do the incentives awarded in 2023 and the decision to issue industrial bonds by the city up to 330mil still apply?  If they do, then the money is pretty much secured, right? 

The ordinance for the prior 2022-2023 plan (residential/hotel/office) providing for 15 yr. tax abatement most likely would still apply but SLDC/LCRA could determine the current plan is too substantially different and requires a new process with recommended different terms.  I don't think a bill for IRB has been passed but most likely it would be if one was sought.  

southcitygent wrote: ↑

Feb 08, 2025

Auggie wrote: ↑

Feb 06, 2025

As normal DB one ups the Business Journal lmao.

Do they have any idea what retailers they will pursue? And what is their idea in demand for this? Seems like they're going for pretty high luxary.

Actually he did not one up them, this was also described in the BJ Article.

Lol