Anyone know how the Target is doing? I really like it and go there often.
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We use it to avoid weaving down to Hampton or dealing with Brentwood. Like it a lot. Way bigger inside than the exterior would make you believe. And they sell wine...which is helpful.
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I shop there as well. It is one mile from my house. And, last night it was open and Chouteau was clear.
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The demographics for a Trader Joe’s in the city just aren’t there. I don’t see that happening anytime soon.
A TJ Maxx or Marshall’s wouldn’t surprise me, but that would be in a South City strip mall, so I’m not super excited about that.
I could see something like a Zara in the CWE.
Regarding the Target, I go there frequently and it seems reasonably busy. Target overall is struggling mightily as a retailer, so that does make me nervous.
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A TJ Maxx or Marshall’s wouldn’t surprise me, but that would be in a South City strip mall, so I’m not super excited about that.
I could see something like a Zara in the CWE.
Regarding the Target, I go there frequently and it seems reasonably busy. Target overall is struggling mightily as a retailer, so that does make me nervous.
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There are a few sites that fit Trader Joes demographics that they are actively looking at. I wouldn't be surprised to see one announced in the next couple of years.Debaliviere91 wrote: ↑Jan 07, 2025The demographics for a Trader Joe’s in the city just aren’t there. I don’t see that happening anytime soon.
A TJ Maxx or Marshall’s wouldn’t surprise me, but that would be in a South City strip mall, so I’m not super excited about that.
I could see something like a Zara in the CWE.
Regarding the Target, I go there frequently and it seems reasonably busy. Target overall is struggling mightily as a retailer, so that does make me nervous.
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I’ve heard differently from my contacts in grocery, but I hope you’re right.STLAPTS wrote:There are a few sites that fit Trader Joes demographics that they are actively looking at. I wouldn't be surprised to see one announced in the next couple of years.Debaliviere91 wrote: ↑Jan 07, 2025The demographics for a Trader Joe’s in the city just aren’t there. I don’t see that happening anytime soon.
A TJ Maxx or Marshall’s wouldn’t surprise me, but that would be in a South City strip mall, so I’m not super excited about that.
I could see something like a Zara in the CWE.
Regarding the Target, I go there frequently and it seems reasonably busy. Target overall is struggling mightily as a retailer, so that does make me nervous.
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I would imagine those locations that might fit are probably in the midtown/CWE corridor which is heavy with competition.
You've got Fresh Thyme, Schnucks, Whole foods and Straubs already in place in the one area that would meet the criteria. I think the Grand Target has a market as well. Would love to see one in the Grove, at either end, preferably in a new mid rise build.
You've got Fresh Thyme, Schnucks, Whole foods and Straubs already in place in the one area that would meet the criteria. I think the Grand Target has a market as well. Would love to see one in the Grove, at either end, preferably in a new mid rise build.
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What is the demographic criteria? Downtown/Downtown West would be my absolute ideal but I understand those might not have demographics yet, though I could see us getting there within the decade.Debaliviere91 wrote: ↑Jan 07, 2025I’ve heard differently from my contacts in grocery, but I hope you’re right.STLAPTS wrote:There are a few sites that fit Trader Joes demographics that they are actively looking at. I wouldn't be surprised to see one announced in the next couple of years.Debaliviere91 wrote: ↑Jan 07, 2025The demographics for a Trader Joe’s in the city just aren’t there. I don’t see that happening anytime soon.
A TJ Maxx or Marshall’s wouldn’t surprise me, but that would be in a South City strip mall, so I’m not super excited about that.
I could see something like a Zara in the CWE.
Regarding the Target, I go there frequently and it seems reasonably busy. Target overall is struggling mightily as a retailer, so that does make me nervous.
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Could the Soulard/Lafayette Square/Fox Park/Benton Park radius meet it? Little competition and density is definitely there. There’s some great sites that would be perfect for it. This would probably be my realistic preference.
Other areas I’m curious about -
Delmar Loop/Debaliviere
South Kingshighway/Chippewa area
The Grove/east Dogtown
Say Trader Joe's in this forum and everyone starts twitching like an addict jonesing for a fix, lol.
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I’m not even a huge Trader Joe’s fan, but I want one in the city bc it is the current young person’s “this is a nice walkable neighborhood to live in” type name brand that we need some more of in the city to convince people to move/stay in our more urban areas.
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They look at median household income, number of college degrees, number of advanced degrees and a couple other metrics, IIRC.
Wonder if Aldi's would be a good fit for downtown, any thoughts? Have to have our TJs fix as well as being a professed cult member but believe Aldi's has been slowly changing there format and a big/strong enough national grocer that they have the means to commit for a while, as more projects adding residents can be built out.
Always assumed TJ Maxx/Ross just as much about population density/number of shoppers as much as demographic in my clueless speculation of how retail works.
Always assumed TJ Maxx/Ross just as much about population density/number of shoppers as much as demographic in my clueless speculation of how retail works.
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Aldi’s would be a better fit demographically downtown. But we just aren’t there in terms of residential population in that area for a larger format grocery.
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There are 10,000+ in Downtown/Downtown West. Forget it’s greater density and even the population within 1, 3 and 5 miles. I mean I’m just thinking about towns of that size I know and they would have more distributor grocery than a small scale Schnucks and Dollar General X. I do like that San Cafe and Cobblestone have added to the food market scene downtown and I enjoy shopping at those the most. But, most towns that size have more national retail/grocery than Downtown/Downtown West (though less local restaurants, bars, etc).Debaliviere91 wrote: ↑Jan 07, 2025Aldi’s would be a better fit demographically downtown. But we just aren’t there in terms of residential population in that area for a larger format grocery.
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I think Downtown will get a Dunkin' Donuts, especially as the hundreds of apartments down there are refreshed and the new ones open. Downtown will be getting an influx in new residents.
Central West End or Midtown would become home to a Crumbl cookie.
As for retailers, I think Washington Avenue could eventually pick up some stores like Woodward has in Detroit. There's no reason Downtown STL can't have a H&M and Nike.
Central West End or Midtown would become home to a Crumbl cookie.
As for retailers, I think Washington Avenue could eventually pick up some stores like Woodward has in Detroit. There's no reason Downtown STL can't have a H&M and Nike.
Downtown and DT West are at about 10K people now. If trends follow trends, 15k in 2030 and 20K in 2040, which would be a rez density of 10K ppl/sq mi in 2040.
https://www.cushmanwakefield.com/-/media/cw/americas/united-states/insights/research-report-pdfs/2019/va_retail_sq-ft-per-capita_apr2019_final.pdf
Interesting report (precovid) from Cushman shows 125 SF of retail per household seems "best fit." Say DT hits 7500 residents in 2030. (Assume avg household size approx. 2 people = 3750). 3750*125= 500,000 SF of retail. (Plus the 55,000 workers here during the day, and visitors)...
Interesting report (precovid) from Cushman shows 125 SF of retail per household seems "best fit." Say DT hits 7500 residents in 2030. (Assume avg household size approx. 2 people = 3750). 3750*125= 500,000 SF of retail. (Plus the 55,000 workers here during the day, and visitors)...
I believe Detroit incentives those national retailers to set up shop downtown. Unfortunately, St. Louis elected leaders feel that there is little need to do those kind of things downtown. In my opinion, the presence of more retailers would defintely attract more residents and visitors.Chris Stritzel wrote: ↑Jan 07, 2025I think Downtown will get a Dunkin' Donuts, especially as the hundreds of apartments down there are refreshed and the new ones open. Downtown will be getting an influx in new residents.
Central West End or Midtown would become home to a Crumbl cookie.
As for retailers, I think Washington Avenue could eventually pick up some stores like Woodward has in Detroit. There's no reason Downtown STL can't have a H&M and Nike.
Agreed. Extremely unfortunate. Incentives are a small cost for the ongoing benefit that results.goat314 wrote: ↑Jan 07, 2025I believe Detroit incentives those national retailers to set up shop downtown. Unfortunately, St. Louis elected leaders feel that there is little need to do those kind of things downtown. In my opinion, the presence of more retailers would defintely attract more residents and visitors.Chris Stritzel wrote: ↑Jan 07, 2025I think Downtown will get a Dunkin' Donuts, especially as the hundreds of apartments down there are refreshed and the new ones open. Downtown will be getting an influx in new residents.
Central West End or Midtown would become home to a Crumbl cookie.
As for retailers, I think Washington Avenue could eventually pick up some stores like Woodward has in Detroit. There's no reason Downtown STL can't have a H&M and Nike.
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2nd or 3rd time you've posted that link.
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The most successful (AKA healthy and vibrant in 2025) urban retail nodes I've seen in my travels around the midwest are typically downtown adjacent instead of in the heart of the CBD as was the norm in the 20th century.
- Minneapolis has the North Loop Warehouse District
- Des Moines has the East Village
- KC has the Crossroads
- Charlotte has the South End
- Chicago has the Fulton Market
- Omaha has the Old Market
Detroit also has billionaires willing to put their companies downtown and send their employees there to work, some even give raises to offset the city's earnings tax.
Corporate investment is the biggest difference between STL and Detroit.
Corporate investment is the biggest difference between STL and Detroit.
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I will always hold Market Street and Chestnut would have been our chance at a grand retail boulevard along with the Gateway Mall from the Arch to Union Station but we fumbled that with our development along it. It would’ve been on another level
Be that as it may, I agree that strengthening the connectivity along Wash Ave, Locust and Olive from the Arch to City Park area, even all the way out to Grand Center District would give us a very strong walkable stretch for residents and tourists. Lots of things from downtown to CWE, it’s just about filling in gaps and making it feel safe and beautiful.
Be that as it may, I agree that strengthening the connectivity along Wash Ave, Locust and Olive from the Arch to City Park area, even all the way out to Grand Center District would give us a very strong walkable stretch for residents and tourists. Lots of things from downtown to CWE, it’s just about filling in gaps and making it feel safe and beautiful.