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PostNov 22, 2024#451

Auggie wrote:
TRUESONJB wrote:
Nov 22, 2024
Auggie wrote:
Nov 21, 2024
Their issues with Boeing are all based on what the media has told them.

My view takes into account a former Navy pilot who flies Boeing planes for United and trains pilots for United in Denver right now. He is far above anyone on here ever will be with regards to knowing anything about Boeing or plane safety- much less the moron politicians who act like they're doing their jobs.

My view challenged what you and everyone on here have had shoved down your throats for 5+ years, so you feel insecure. It's natural.
Know a guy that worked for boeing for 40ish years. He left. He said it became a sh*t show. So I don't know what you are talking about.
"I know a disgruntled employee who quit their job"

Lemme know when planes start falling out of the sky. Disgruntled Boeing employee💀
“I know a guy who fly’s airplanes.”


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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PostNov 23, 2024#452

yes Boeing is a hot mess Buy Russian! The era of global destabilization is underway. The era of conflict is coming, which means more and more countries will buy weapons. It is already clear that the real hit on this market is Russian weapons, which have the best price-quality ratio in the world. https://maratkhairullin.substack.com/p/russian-weapons-are-a-hit-seller?utm_source=post-email-title&publication_id=2099482&post_id=152048378&utm_campaign=email-post-title&isFreemail=true&r=bzs8&triedRedirect=true&utm_medium=email

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PostNov 23, 2024#453

Russia needs all the weapons itnhas for Ukraine

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PostNov 24, 2024#454

dredger wrote:
Nov 22, 2024
GoHarvOrGoHome wrote:
Nov 21, 2024
This whole debacle is such a debacle. I was listening to a podcast, I think it was The Journal about the strike a little bit ago where they interviewed striking Boeing workers in Seattle. Specifically they interviewed a multi generational Boeing family  and their chief complaint was that one Boeing salary could comfortably support a family of six, but today supporting a family of four requires taking a ton of overtime every week just to make ends meet. Sure, Boeing isn't the spectacular employer that they used to be, but this seems like more of a reflection on the ridiculous cost of living in Seattle.
Going to use GoHarveyGoHome comment/reference to the fact that I'm getting to be the old guy in the room and so can't help to think how many parents raised myself & four older siblings on lot less with mostly homemade meals, one local grocery store, public schools and no starbucks where as my wife & I having a smaller family but plenty of options, to doordash, to unlimited restaurants, to private schools, to a coffee house at every corner and doing all the kids youth sports, clubs and so on.   This doesn't include the fact that everyone wants a monster truck or full size SUV in the driveway including the Ford Explorer with all the features in my driveway that is way nicer then what my parents ever had for a vehicle.  

Housing is tough but realistically we are doing a pretty good job of spending money as a society these days.  Definitely way better then my parents did.   Man do we need to look into the mirror and get real about the differences between now and the past.  Ok, will get off the generalization soapbox.
Keep in mind the external factors, like, people have a lot less free time nowadays to cook or make coffee at home. For example, 40 years ago it was common in offices for an 8 hour workday to include lunch, nowadays it's 8 hours + lunch + a longer commute. Kids are in clubs because there aren't safe places for them to play; if they leave their house on their own in most neighborhoods they'll get run over by an SUV on the way to the park. People drive full-size SUVs because they spend more waking time in their cars than at home so they want it to be nice, and they want it to be big because it's the main way to stay safe on a highway full of sleep-deprived commuters. It's not a question of "kids/parents these days", it's a reflection of our society being designed so that mom feels like she needs an APC to safely shuttle her kids between school to activities. I think a lot of people in this generation are way more aware than in the past of the costs of suburban life, but unfortunately we don't have many alternatives when 90% of housing (and work) is in suburbia.

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PostNov 25, 2024#455

The Boeing STL layoffs really aren't bad. They're considerably less than 10% of the regional workforce. The bulk should impact the jetliner manufacturing hubs in Seattle and Charleston. The only jetliner work STL sees is composite materials for the 777X, which is way behind in deliveries. Very much, STL comes out of this looking good. 

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PostDec 06, 2024#456

A Boeing facility in North County.

By James Drew – Reporter, St. Louis Business Journal
Dec 5, 2024
Updated Dec 5, 2024 4:00pm CST

The U.S. Air Force on Thursday announced that a decision on whether to build a sixth generation of fighter jet — a potentially critical issue for The Boeing Co.’s defense operations in the St. Louis area — will be made by the Trump administration.
“The Secretary of the Air Force will defer the Next Generation Air Dominance way ahead decision to the next administration, while the Department of the Air Force continues its analysis and executes the necessary actions to ensure decision space remains intact for the NGAD program,” an Air Force spokesperson said in a statement.

President-elect Donald Trump
BILL GREENBLATT
The spokesperson added that the Air Force also requested that bidding vendors “update their proposals” for the stealth jet, Breaking Defense reported.
The U.S. Air Force was expected to award a contract this year for its Next Generation Air Dominance (NGAD) platform, with reports that Boeing and Lockheed Martin were competing for the lucrative contracts. Industry officials had expected an announcement this month.
Federal budget constraints and rapid development of new drone technology had the Air Force in June questioning the fate of its next stealth fighter jet. Boeing confirmed last year that it was competing with Lockheed Martin and Northrop Grumman for the contracts to build the U.S. Navy’s next-generation fighter jet program, called the F/A-XX. It's unclear what the timetable is on that decision.
Boeing’s $1.8 billion expansion project at its north St. Louis County operations has moved forward this year, with construction of an aircraft assembly building.
In June, Steve Nordlund, vice president and general manager of the Air Dominance Division of Boeing Defense, Space & Security and leader of the St. Louis-area site, and a Boeing spokesperson declined to discuss what type of aircraft will be assembled in the building, citing "multiple classified opportunities."
Steve Nordlund, vice president and general manager of the Air Dominance Division of Boeing Defense, Space & Security
Boeing
Nordlund also declined to comment in June when asked about NGAD during a media briefing. But he said the questions about the next-gen fighter jet are the "when and then the who."
A Boeing spokesperson declined comment Thursday on the Air Force's NGAD announcement. The spokesperson confirmed that Nordlund plans to retire next year and will be succeeded by Dan Gillian, the vice president of Mobility, Surveillance & Bombers.
The most likely scenario is NGAD begins to materialize after the current Air Force spending surge diminishes, which could be in the 2030s, said Richard Aboulafia, managing director of AeroDynamic Advisory, an aerospace and defense management consulting firm.
The reason: The price of the next generation of U.S. land-based intercontinental ballistic missile, initially known as the Ground Based Strategic Deterrent and now dubbed Sentinel, has nearly doubled in size from its original projections of $62.3 billion in 2015 to over $130 billion.
"It's huge and it's growing and it's sucking up everything. But then you have the other problems. Do you want a $300 million fighter? Do you want to make it bigger to cope with the Pacific or do you want to make it smaller to get it at a lower cost? And then most of all, if you are not happy with either Boeing or Lockheed Martin, do you incentivize Northrop Grumman to come back into the team?" Aboulafia said. He referred to Northrop Grumman last year dropping out of NGAD, but indicating recently it may reconsider if details of the project are revised.

The Air Force’s announcement comes as Boeing, based in Arlington, Virginia, has faced a series of crises this year.
In July, Boeing agreed to plead guilty and pay a $243.6 million fine to settle criminal charges that it failed to implement a proper safety and compliance program following the crashes of two 737 Max jets in 2018 and 2019 that killed 346 people in Indonesia and Ethiopia.
On Thursday, a federal judge in Texas threw out the plea agreement, ruling that the proposed settlement would improperly require race to be considered in the hiring of an independent monitor and his role would be minimized in ensuring that Boeing complied with the deal, Bloomberg reported.
In January, a Boeing 737 suffered a near-catastrophic Alaska Airlines midair incident in which a door plug fell off. A strike by machinists in the the Pacific Northwest and California intensified the storm clouds mounting over Boeing, which said it burned through $1.3 billion in cash in the quarter ended Sept. 30 as credit agencies warned that its rating could be cut to junk status. The machinists voted Nov. 4 to end their seven-week strike against the company, ratifying a four-year contract that will give them a 38% pay increase.
Boeing Defense, Space & Security has not been immune to the problems.
Boeing CEO Kelly Ortberg announced in October that the aerospace giant planned to cut the size of its workforce by 10% – about 17,000 jobs – and that the reductions would include executives, managers and employees.

Nearly 700 employees at The Boeing Co.’s St. Louis-area locations in Missouri are being laid off, according to a notice filed by the aerospace giant with the state. Of the total 692 job cuts, 111 were represented by the International Association of Machinists and Aerospace Workers District 837 and laid off last month. The remainder of salaried and non-union employees will lose their jobs on Jan. 17.
Kelly Ortberg, former CEO at Rockwell Collins Inc., was named Boeing president and CEO on July 31, 2024.
Boeing
Shortly after Ortberg replaced Dave Calhoun as CEO, Boeing announced that Ted Colbert, the head of BDS since 2022, had left the company. The unit suffered an operating loss of $913 million in the three months ending June 30, and an operating margin decline of 15.2% in the second quarter, compared with a 8.5% drop in the same period of 2023.
On Oct. 23, Boeing reported a net loss of $6 billion in the third quarter. Boeing Defense, Space & Security lost $2.4 billion in the quarter that ended Sept 30, posting overruns on fixed-price contracts that included the KC-46 tanker and the problem-plagued Starliner spacecraft.
Boeing is one of the largest employers in the St. Louis region, with nearly 16,000 employees working at three facilities, in St. Louis, St. Charles and Mascoutah, Illinois, according to St. Louis Business Journal research. It produces a number of military aircraft and weapons systems locally including the F/A-18 Super Hornet, EA-18G Growler, F-15 Eagle, eT-7A Red Hawk, MQ-25 Stingray, Joint Direct Attack Munition, Harpoon and Small Diameter Bomb. Additionally, the St. Louis Composite Center of Excellence manufactures composite parts for the Boeing 777X commercial aircraft.

PostDec 11, 2024#457

Boeing's Defense, Space and Security office in St. Louis County

By Veneta Rizvic – Special Sections Editor, St. Louis Business Journal
Dec 11, 2024

The Boeing Co. has been awarded a $450.5 million contract from the U.S. Department of Defense to build F-15 fighter jets to be sold to Japan.
The contract is part of the Japan Super Interceptor Program and covers the acquisition of radars, self-protection systems and mission computer units. The work will be performed in St. Louis and is expected to be completed by early 2030.

Boeing produces a number of military aircraft and weapons systems locally including the F/A-18 Super Hornet, EA-18G Growler, F-15 Eagle, eT-7A Red Hawk, MQ-25 Stingray, Joint Direct Attack Munition, Harpoon and Small Diameter Bomb.

Nearly 700 employees at Boeing's St. Louis-area locations in Missouri are being laid off, beginning Jan. 17, according to a notice filed by the aerospace giant with the state and released in November.
The notice to the state lists the positions that will be laid off and the numbers, including 363 in Berkeley, 239 in Hazelwood, 68 in St. Charles, 14 in St. Louis, and one each in Maryland Heights, Kingsdale and Kansas City.

Boeing CEO Kelly Ortberg announced in October that the aerospace giant planned to cut the size of its workforce by 10% – about 17,000 jobs – and that the reductions would include executives, managers and employees.

Boeing is one of the largest employers in the region, with nearly 17,000 employees working at three facilities in north St. Louis County, St. Charles and Mascoutah, Illinois, according to Business Journal research.

Boeing is the region's largest defense contractor with $3.58 billion in 2023 contracts awarded, according to Business Journal research. It had 2023 revenue of $24.93 million.

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PostDec 29, 2024#458

I don't mean to pile-on to Boeing, but a 737-800 crashed on landing in South Korea, killing 179 people. Apparently the front landing gear failed to deploy. 

https://www.yahoo.com/news/plane-caught ... 08682.html

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PostDec 29, 2024#459

Just terrible. Fortunately for Boeing it initially looks like this was caused by external circumstances.

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PostDec 29, 2024#460

Yeah, sounds like bird strike caused the systems failure.  Wont' know for sure until the black box is reviewed. 

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PostDec 30, 2024#461

TheWayoftheArch_V2.0 wrote:
Dec 29, 2024
Yeah, sounds like bird strike caused the systems failure.  Wont' know for sure until the black box is reviewed. 
Call me skeptical. A bird strike shouldn’t do that. They also were able to do a go around and attempt to land in the reverse direction after the supposed bird strike. So systems couldn’t have been failed too bad if they had control to do that.

A lot of what happened doesn’t really make sense. Especially no gear being down.

I’ll be curious to see what comes out because I can’t really wrap my head around it. It’s hard for me to see a scenario where the plane seems to be as controllable as it was, but the flaps and especially landing gear can’t be deployed.

I saw a fire in the cabin theory out there, if true, maybe that sped things/limited options up a bit. I guess we will see.

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PostDec 30, 2024#462

I’m definitely waiting on the black box, but if not a single bird, but as implied many, including some being stuck in the wings/flaps then my immediate thought was hydraulic systems damage/failure or power loss to said system resulting in the gear being non deployable.  

It is Boeing, and a 737-800, so nothing should be assumed or ruled out yet, certainly.

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PostDec 30, 2024#463

Considering this happened 1 time out of tens I'd thousands of flights.....yes we can rule out the idea that the plane has a design flaw.

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PostDec 30, 2024#464

Auggie wrote:
Dec 30, 2024
Considering this happened 1 time out of tens I'd thousands of flights.....yes we can rule out the idea that the plane has a design flaw.
This is one of the funniest hills to die on

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PostDec 30, 2024#465

I don't understand why there was a concrete wall at the end of the runway. Don't they usually have giant safety nets or something? 

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PostDec 30, 2024#466

TheWayoftheArch_V2.0 wrote:
Dec 30, 2024
I’m definitely waiting on the black box, but if not a single bird, but as implied many, including some being stuck in the wings/flaps then my immediate thought was hydraulic systems damage/failure or power loss to said system resulting in the gear being non deployable.  

It is Boeing, and a 737-800, so nothing should be assumed or ruled out yet, certainly.
The gear can each be independently deployed with no hydraulics or power from what I understand. There is a gravity drop release option. So that’s the part that confuses me the most.

Also agree this plane hasn’t had issues like the MAX, so not a hill I’d die on, but I would doubt a Boeing flaw in this case.

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PostDec 30, 2024#467

Gravity drop systems require a crank or pump by a human/cabin member, which you would think would be problematic but this plane model has a very simple gravity system in the floor of the cockpit. 



Lots of questions regarding landing speed, how far down the runway they landed, etc.  Seems like not a lot of check boxes for a belly landing were ticked.  As you mentioned above, a cabin fire could have played a role in accelerating the situation. 

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PostDec 31, 2024#468

framer wrote:
Dec 30, 2024
I don't understand why there was a concrete wall at the end of the runway. Don't they usually have giant safety nets or something? 
I'm not sure that it's exactly a concrete wall. I think it hit a berm with the localizer array on it first, where it shattered and exploded, and then pieces of the plane hit the perimeter wall after. (Which does look to be cinderblock in places.) The localizer is only about 800' from the threshold here, which is a little close by comparison to local airports. Ours are mostly more than 1200' from the threshold, which is about where the perimeter wall is there. Muan does seem to have a pretty tight footprint, particularly for an airport built in the 90s, but it's on a rather narrow spit of land.

I'm not aware of any airports with nets, though maybe there are some. There's a few with navy style arresting gear, but I think that's mostly for (military) aircraft equipped to use them, and I don't think it'd do much for a 737. (Probably nothing good.) There's sometimes an area past the end of the runway with a sort of runaway truck ramp thing called an "EMAS" pad for "Engineered Materials Arresting System." Maybe Muan has/had one? Maybe not. I don't have anything beyond satellite imagery to work from. (There's not much public on Flightaware.) And special crushable concrete made out of styrofoam looks pretty similar to regular concrete from above. And maybe EMAS doesn't work as well when there aren't landing gear digging in anyway. Kind of hard for me to say. But it sounds like this was a . . . rather exceptional case in several ways.

Anyway, I expect a lot of people will be looking at the design of runway protection areas and how to stop planes inside them. Of how to mount localizer arrays and other vertical stuff that sticks up at the end of the runway. (Like approach lights and the glideslope antenna.) But at the end of the day this is probably a pretty complicated accident with lots of contributing factors. And it's way too early to speculate much, so I'll shut up. And my sincere condolences to all concerned. :(

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PostDec 31, 2024#469



I enjoy the content on this channel, they are usually right on when it comes to speculation about aviation accidents.

Focus now is on airport design and the crew, which did seem to act in haste. As he mentions in the video, the right engine had a visible compressor stall (from bird strike?) and that engine could have pulled smoke into the cabin if it was present causing the crew to think they had a fire.

PostJan 12, 2025#470

Well, this just got even stranger. Do we have yet another Boeing 737 issue?


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PostMar 08, 2025#471

Any tidbits worth noting in the Boeing BizJournal story?  Current proposed House Continuing Resolution (bump up for defense while cutting other discretionary) assume would be good news for Boeing.   

Boeing to add 'couple hundred' workers as programs ramp up

https://www.bizjournals.com/stlouis/new ... grams.html

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PostMar 08, 2025#472

dredger wrote:
Mar 08, 2025
Any tidbits worth noting in the Boeing BizJournal story?  Current proposed House Continuing Resolution (bump up for defense while cutting other discretionary) assume would be good news for Boeing.   

Boeing to add 'couple hundred' workers as programs ramp up

https://www.bizjournals.com/stlouis/new ... grams.html
"A couple hundred" doesn't offset the 700 they fired a few months ago.

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PostMar 09, 2025#473

^^I really wish we could convince someone in power to fund F-18s for Ukraine. They're good, capable little fighters that we could crank out while the line's still hot. More capable and more survivable than the 16s we're sending them, and maybe not that much more expensive. There was a nice analysis suggesting the F-18 was the best bang for the buck of the fourth  to fourth and a half gen fighters out there. (F-15 is more capable, obviously, but also a lot more expensive.)

PostMar 09, 2025#474

Auggie wrote:
Mar 08, 2025
dredger wrote:
Mar 08, 2025
Any tidbits worth noting in the Boeing BizJournal story?  Current proposed House Continuing Resolution (bump up for defense while cutting other discretionary) assume would be good news for Boeing.   

Boeing to add 'couple hundred' workers as programs ramp up

https://www.bizjournals.com/stlouis/new ... grams.html
"A couple hundred" doesn't offset the 700 they fired a few months ago.
No, but production is only just starting on the T-7 and MQ-25 lines, so both of those will need more people as they ramp up. And if Boeing can win either or both the USAF NGAD or USN F/A-XX program that would also add jobs. They're one of two bids on both of those, so they've got decent odds of landing at least one. They're building two new plants here. I expect there will be new hires to fill those plants. (And maybe rehires of some of the folks laid off. Maybe.) We'll see how it goes, but I'm pretty hopeful about this in the long term.

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PostMar 09, 2025#475

symphonicpoet wrote:
Mar 09, 2025
Auggie wrote:
Mar 08, 2025
dredger wrote:
Mar 08, 2025
Any tidbits worth noting in the Boeing BizJournal story?  Current proposed House Continuing Resolution (bump up for defense while cutting other discretionary) assume would be good news for Boeing.   

Boeing to add 'couple hundred' workers as programs ramp up

https://www.bizjournals.com/stlouis/new ... grams.html
"A couple hundred" doesn't offset the 700 they fired a few months ago.
No, but production is only just starting on the T-7 and MQ-25 lines, so both of those will need more people as they ramp up. And if Boeing can win either or both the USAF NGAD or USN F/A-XX program that would also add jobs. They're one of two bids on both of those, so they've got decent odds of landing at least one. They're building two new plants here. I expect there will be new hires to fill those plants. (And maybe rehires of some of the folks laid off. Maybe.) We'll see how it goes, but I'm pretty hopeful about this in the long term.
Do we know what is going to be built in the huge new plant?  Tried searching for answers and found nothing.

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