Yeah, what it needs is a complete worker takeover to kick out all the cheapskate c-suiters that prioritize profits over safety.framer wrote: ↑Sep 13, 2024Just what Boeing needs right now: A strike.
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The Boeing 777-9, the sole Boeing current commercial airplane with locally-made parts, stopped at St. Louis Lambert International Airport Monday, June 26, so workers could tour the finished product for the first time.
Jim Drew
By James Drew – Reporter, St. Louis Business Journal
Nov 15, 2024
The Boeing Co. (NYSE: BA) is laying off 111 union workers in the St. Louis area, citing a delay in the first delivery of the 777X commercial aircraft until 2026 instead of 2025.
The employees left work Thursday after they were informed about being laid off. They will be paid until Jan. 17 and also retain their health benefits until then, said Tom Boelling, president of the International Association of Machinists and Aerospace Workers District 837.
Of the 111 workers, 104 are assembly mechanics and seven are process mechanics who paint parts. Most of them worked on manufacturing composite parts for the 777X, which is assembled at the Boeing factory in Everett, Washington, among those shut down by the recent strike.
“On the 777X, they’ll just slow it down to a crawl. They’ve done that before, where they mainly have a skeleton crew just to keep it going so it doesn’t totally stop,” Boelling said Friday.
About 30 of the assembly mechanics worked on the F-15 fighter jet program, Boelling said. Remaining workers on the 777X will be transferred to backfill the loss of those 30 F-15 assembly mechanics, he said.
Boelling said he heard speculation that about 50 first-line shop managers are being laid off. A Boeing spokesperson declined to provide any numbers on layoffs. "We are not providing details regarding the numbers of employees impacted at each site location,” the spokesperson said in an email.
Boeing CEO Kelly Ortberg announced in October that the aerospace giant planned to cut the size of its workforce by 10% – about 17,000 jobs – and that the reductions would include executives, managers and employees.
Kelly Ortberg, CEO of The Boeing Co.
The Boeing Co.
Boeing is one of the largest employers in the region, with nearly 16,000 employees working at three facilities in north St. Louis County, St. Charles and Mascoutah, Illinois, according to Business Journal research.
In his October announcement about the jobs cuts, Ortberg also announced Boeing would delay first delivery of the 777X until 2026 instead of 2025. He cited "challenges we have faced in development, as well as from the flight test pause and ongoing work stoppage."
Boeing machinists in the Pacific Northwest and California voted Nov. 4 to end their seven-week strike against the aerospace giant, ratifying a four-year contract that will give them a 38% pay increase.
IAM has about 270 members that work on the 777X program at its operations in north St. Louis County. Production was slowed because of Covid-19, but worked had ramped up since the end of the pandemic and was supposed to increase further in February 2025, Boelling said.
Boeing officials said they couldn’t find spots on defense programs for the 111 workers being laid off, Boelling said. Boeing Defense, Space & Security recognized pre-tax earnings charges of $2 billion in the third quarter that included the T-7A trainer aircraft and the MQ-25 un-crewed refueling drone. Both programs have struggled with production issues.
Boelling said he’s optimistic that Boeing will call back many of the 111 laid-off workers before Jan. 17, when they’re off the payroll. Of the 104 assembly mechanics laid off, 48 are still on probation, which Boeing defines as four months and that Boeing has invested in their training, he added.
The aviation and defense giant, based in Arlington, Virginia, has had a year of one crisis after another, starting in January with the near-catastrophic Alaska Airlines midair incident in which a door plug fell off. The strike intensified the storm clouds mounting over Boeing, which said it burned through $1.3 billion in cash in the quarter ended Sept. 30 as credit agencies warned that its rating could be cut to junk status.
Boeing produces a number of military aircraft and weapons systems locally including the F/A-18 Super Hornet, EA-18G Growler, F-15 Eagle, eT-7A Red Hawk, MQ-25 Stingray, Joint Direct Attack Munition, Harpoon and Small Diameter Bomb.
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Ugh Boeing is laying off 2500 nationally, including 700 in St Louis. Devastating.
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I was wondering about that. The status of that project is unclear to me. I’m doubting we are getting an additional 500 jobs from Boeing based on their current state.dbInSouthCity wrote:So a net of -200?
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Feels like a lot is riding on the popularity of the Eagle II
A lot of the Boeing hate is also riding on extremely exaggerated bad media coverage. Pretty crazy how largely non-existent safety issues have caused so many issues for them.
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No. But my cousin is a United pilot who actually flies Boeing planes.
The entire Boeing fiasco happened because of two planes with badly trained pilots crashing planes they didn't know how to fly and shouldn't have been flying in the first place.
The last time a Boeing place crashed was in China in March of 2022 and the last Boeing plane to crash in America was in July 2021. They aren't falling out of the sky and there's no actual design flaw.
If there was an actual design flaw- the entire reason Boeing started dealing with this animosity back in 2019- then you would have seen more crashes than two crashes in two under-developed countries with shotty pilot standards.
Even the big Alaska Airlines thing was more a showing of how sturdy Boeing planes are that they can have a hole ripped in them and still be able to land safely. But of course it was spun as *another* example of why you should hate Boeing.
It would take 121 Boeing crashes per year just to tie our gun deaths, for reference. And we are at like 0.25 crashes per year this decade, and that crash killed 0.
Boeing's leadership is full of incompetent people who were pushed into positions they were not yet ready for. I truly hope they can turn things around for the sake of everyone whose livelihoods depend on the company. Boeing started going south over a decade ago, based on what I've heard.Auggie wrote: ↑Nov 21, 2024No. But my cousin is a United pilot who actually flies Boeing planes.
The entire Boeing fiasco happened because of two planes with badly trained pilots crashing planes they didn't know how to fly and shouldn't have been flying in the first place.
The last time a Boeing place crashed was in China in March of 2022 and the last Boeing plane to crash in America was in July 2021. They aren't falling out of the sky and there's no actual design flaw.
If there was an actual design flaw- the entire reason Boeing started dealing with this animosity back in 2019- then you would have seen more crashes than two crashes in two under-developed countries with shotty pilot standards.
Even the big Alaska Airlines thing was more a showing of how sturdy Boeing planes are that they can have a hole ripped in them and still be able to land safely. But of course it was spun as *another* example of why you should hate Boeing.
It would take 121 Boeing crashes per year just to tie our gun deaths, for reference. And we are at like 0.25 crashes per year this decade, and that crash killed 0.
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This whole debacle is such a debacle. I was listening to a podcast, I think it was The Journal about the strike a little bit ago where they interviewed striking Boeing workers in Seattle. Specifically they interviewed a multi generational Boeing family and their chief complaint was that one Boeing salary could comfortably support a family of six, but today supporting a family of four requires taking a ton of overtime every week just to make ends meet. Sure, Boeing isn't the spectacular employer that they used to be, but this seems like more of a reflection on the ridiculous cost of living in Seattle.
During this chaotic time at Boeing, I wonder if hard decisions are being made about the future of their focus on Seattle. Building planes will continue to be a very labor intensive progress, especially in the face of increased government scrutiny. STL has the talent pool and infrastructure to maybe take over production of a plane or two eventually. Our cost of living is not likely to skyrocket anytime soon so these workers will be available at a deep discount compared to Seattle. I hope our regional leadership is at least having these discussions with Boeing.
Unfortunately this dynamic will probably benefit the Charleston plant more than STL as the union doesn't have a presence (and they are already building commercial planes there) but our COL is still cheaper than Charleston and we still have plenty of space on the north side of the airport to expand operations
During this chaotic time at Boeing, I wonder if hard decisions are being made about the future of their focus on Seattle. Building planes will continue to be a very labor intensive progress, especially in the face of increased government scrutiny. STL has the talent pool and infrastructure to maybe take over production of a plane or two eventually. Our cost of living is not likely to skyrocket anytime soon so these workers will be available at a deep discount compared to Seattle. I hope our regional leadership is at least having these discussions with Boeing.
Unfortunately this dynamic will probably benefit the Charleston plant more than STL as the union doesn't have a presence (and they are already building commercial planes there) but our COL is still cheaper than Charleston and we still have plenty of space on the north side of the airport to expand operations
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While this layoff is a huge loss for the region (one step forward 3 steps back), I would hope that Boeing can get back on track in the near future. If they do, I would expect STL to gain back those jobs and then some. The industry has always seen these fluctuations. While this one is a bit more unusual, since Boeing has been killed in the media and the strike added to their pain, the hope would be when the dust settles and they right the ship, these jobs will return. Somebody in the know, please correct me if my analysis is off.
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I have the same thought, I think once Boeing gets back on track, those jobs will return. But for now they need to cut costs. Of course there management of Boeing has fault for the issues of the planes, however the union overplayed their hand with a company in distress and I'm sure that was a factor that made the cuts more necessary. Maybe if the union hadn't asked for such a high increases, then job cuts would've been ~5% of the total employees, not 10%.DogtownBnR wrote: ↑Nov 21, 2024While this layoff is a huge loss for the region (one step forward 3 steps back), I would hope that Boeing can get back on track in the near future. If they do, I would expect STL to gain back those jobs and then some. The industry has always seen these fluctuations. While this one is a bit more unusual, since Boeing has been killed in the media and the strike added to their pain, the hope would be when the dust settles and they right the ship, these jobs will return. Somebody in the know, please correct me if my analysis is off.
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Boeing intentionally misled foreign airlines/pilots about the training requirements for the Max which led to the crashes. Boeing plead guilty to the criminal charges arising from the crashes and has since failed to meet the requirements of its plea. With all due respect, your cousin doesn’t know wth he is talking about.Auggie wrote: ↑Nov 21, 2024No. But my cousin is a United pilot who actually flies Boeing planes.
The entire Boeing fiasco happened because of two planes with badly trained pilots crashing planes they didn't know how to fly and shouldn't have been flying in the first place.
The last time a Boeing place crashed was in China in March of 2022 and the last Boeing plane to crash in America was in July 2021. They aren't falling out of the sky and there's no actual design flaw.
If there was an actual design flaw- the entire reason Boeing started dealing with this animosity back in 2019- then you would have seen more crashes than two crashes in two under-developed countries with shotty pilot standards.
Even the big Alaska Airlines thing was more a showing of how sturdy Boeing planes are that they can have a hole ripped in them and still be able to land safely. But of course it was spun as *another* example of why you should hate Boeing.
It would take 121 Boeing crashes per year just to tie our gun deaths, for reference. And we are at like 0.25 crashes per year this decade, and that crash killed 0.
Word of someone who actually flies planes > lawmakers who want to appear like they're doing their jobJaneJacobsGhost wrote: ↑Nov 21, 2024Boeing intentionally misled foreign airlines/pilots about the training requirements for the Max which led to the crashes. Boeing plead guilty to the criminal charges arising from the crashes and has since failed to meet the requirements of its plea. With all due respect, your cousin doesn’t know wth he is talking about.Auggie wrote: ↑Nov 21, 2024No. But my cousin is a United pilot who actually flies Boeing planes.
The entire Boeing fiasco happened because of two planes with badly trained pilots crashing planes they didn't know how to fly and shouldn't have been flying in the first place.
The last time a Boeing place crashed was in China in March of 2022 and the last Boeing plane to crash in America was in July 2021. They aren't falling out of the sky and there's no actual design flaw.
If there was an actual design flaw- the entire reason Boeing started dealing with this animosity back in 2019- then you would have seen more crashes than two crashes in two under-developed countries with shotty pilot standards.
Even the big Alaska Airlines thing was more a showing of how sturdy Boeing planes are that they can have a hole ripped in them and still be able to land safely. But of course it was spun as *another* example of why you should hate Boeing.
It would take 121 Boeing crashes per year just to tie our gun deaths, for reference. And we are at like 0.25 crashes per year this decade, and that crash killed 0.
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Your typical Ad Hominem response.Auggie wrote:Word of someone who actually flies planes > lawmakers who want to appear like they're doing their jobJaneJacobsGhost wrote: ↑Nov 21, 2024Boeing intentionally misled foreign airlines/pilots about the training requirements for the Max which led to the crashes. Boeing plead guilty to the criminal charges arising from the crashes and has since failed to meet the requirements of its plea. With all due respect, your cousin doesn’t know wth he is talking about.Auggie wrote: ↑Nov 21, 2024No. But my cousin is a United pilot who actually flies Boeing planes.
The entire Boeing fiasco happened because of two planes with badly trained pilots crashing planes they didn't know how to fly and shouldn't have been flying in the first place.
The last time a Boeing place crashed was in China in March of 2022 and the last Boeing plane to crash in America was in July 2021. They aren't falling out of the sky and there's no actual design flaw.
If there was an actual design flaw- the entire reason Boeing started dealing with this animosity back in 2019- then you would have seen more crashes than two crashes in two under-developed countries with shotty pilot standards.
Even the big Alaska Airlines thing was more a showing of how sturdy Boeing planes are that they can have a hole ripped in them and still be able to land safely. But of course it was spun as *another* example of why you should hate Boeing.
It would take 121 Boeing crashes per year just to tie our gun deaths, for reference. And we are at like 0.25 crashes per year this decade, and that crash killed 0.
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So far I'm the only one who doesn't just regurgitate what you read on every news website ever reported by people who have no idea what they're talking about. No one here had an argument.Debaliviere91 wrote: ↑Nov 21, 2024Your typical Ad Hominem response.Auggie wrote:Word of someone who actually flies planes > lawmakers who want to appear like they're doing their jobJaneJacobsGhost wrote: ↑Nov 21, 2024
Boeing intentionally misled foreign airlines/pilots about the training requirements for the Max which led to the crashes. Boeing plead guilty to the criminal charges arising from the crashes and has since failed to meet the requirements of its plea. With all due respect, your cousin doesn’t know wth he is talking about.
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"Boeing pled guilty" yea no sh*t they were being tried by a government that was threatening to stop awarding them contracts and had already decided to ground a completely safe aircraft because 2 bad pilots crashed their planes.
But no keep believing what they distract you with while real problems just keep getting worse.
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Auggie folks on this thread are pointing out their issues with Boeing and explaining why. You’re regurgitating a viewpoint from some guy no one here knows who happens to fly a plane for a living.Auggie wrote:So far I'm the only one who doesn't just regurgitate what you read on every news website ever reported by people who have no idea what they're talking about. No one here had an argument.Debaliviere91 wrote: ↑Nov 21, 2024Your typical Ad Hominem response.Auggie wrote: Word of someone who actually flies planes > lawmakers who want to appear like they're doing their job
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"Boeing pled guilty" yea no sh*t they were being tried by a government that was threatening to stop awarding them contracts and had already decided to ground a completely safe aircraft because 2 bad pilots crashed their planes.
But no keep believing what they distract you with while real problems just keep getting worse.
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Their issues with Boeing are all based on what the media has told them.Debaliviere91 wrote: ↑Nov 21, 2024Auggie folks on this thread are pointing out their issues with Boeing and explaining why. You’re regurgitating a viewpoint from some guy no one here knows who happens to fly a plane for a living.Auggie wrote:So far I'm the only one who doesn't just regurgitate what you read on every news website ever reported by people who have no idea what they're talking about. No one here had an argument.Debaliviere91 wrote: ↑Nov 21, 2024Your typical Ad Hominem response.
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"Boeing pled guilty" yea no sh*t they were being tried by a government that was threatening to stop awarding them contracts and had already decided to ground a completely safe aircraft because 2 bad pilots crashed their planes.
But no keep believing what they distract you with while real problems just keep getting worse.
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My view takes into account a former Navy pilot who flies Boeing planes for United and trains pilots for United in Denver right now. He is far above anyone on here ever will be with regards to knowing anything about Boeing or plane safety- much less the moron politicians who act like they're doing their jobs.
My view challenged what you and everyone on here have had shoved down your throats for 5+ years, so you feel insecure. It's natural.
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We have multiple members of this forum, myself included, who either work at Boeing or have contacts at Boeing. In terms of what the media and politicians are reporting, it’s not as if is just completely baseless like your saying.Auggie wrote:Their issues with Boeing are all based on what the media has told them.Debaliviere91 wrote: ↑Nov 21, 2024Auggie folks on this thread are pointing out their issues with Boeing and explaining why. You’re regurgitating a viewpoint from some guy no one here knows who happens to fly a plane for a living.Auggie wrote: So far I'm the only one who doesn't just regurgitate what you read on every news website ever reported by people who have no idea what they're talking about. No one here had an argument.
"Boeing pled guilty" yea no sh*t they were being tried by a government that was threatening to stop awarding them contracts and had already decided to ground a completely safe aircraft because 2 bad pilots crashed their planes.
But no keep believing what they distract you with while real problems just keep getting worse.
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My view takes into account a former Navy pilot who flies Boeing planes for United and trains pilots for United in Denver right now. He is far above anyone on here ever will be with regards to knowing anything about Boeing or plane safety- much less the moron politicians who act like they're doing their jobs.
My view challenged what you and everyone on here have had shoved down your throats for 5+ years, so you feel insecure. It's natural.
What about the numerous whistleblowers who literally were working on planes at Boeing? Surely that’s a better source than yours? How do you explain that?
Again, your only argument is to attack the character of those making the argument, all the while you’re expecting others to take the character of your source at face value.
Going to use GoHarveyGoHome comment/reference to the fact that I'm getting to be the old guy in the room and so can't help to think how many parents raised myself & four older siblings on lot less with mostly homemade meals, one local grocery store, public schools and no starbucks where as my wife & I having a smaller family but plenty of options, to doordash, to unlimited restaurants, to private schools, to a coffee house at every corner and doing all the kids youth sports, clubs and so on. This doesn't include the fact that everyone wants a monster truck or full size SUV in the driveway including the Ford Explorer with all the features in my driveway that is way nicer then what my parents ever had for a vehicle.GoHarvOrGoHome wrote: ↑Nov 21, 2024This whole debacle is such a debacle. I was listening to a podcast, I think it was The Journal about the strike a little bit ago where they interviewed striking Boeing workers in Seattle. Specifically they interviewed a multi generational Boeing family and their chief complaint was that one Boeing salary could comfortably support a family of six, but today supporting a family of four requires taking a ton of overtime every week just to make ends meet. Sure, Boeing isn't the spectacular employer that they used to be, but this seems like more of a reflection on the ridiculous cost of living in Seattle.
Housing is tough but realistically we are doing a pretty good job of spending money as a society these days. Definitely way better then my parents did. Man do we need to look into the mirror and get real about the differences between now and the past. Ok, will get off the generalization soapbox.
Back to St. Louis and Boeing. Region will be just fine as the incoming admin/Congress is doing a great job, for better or worse depending on individual opinions, of promising ever more defense spending. I wonder if we will actually see a trillion dollar defense budget within the next couple of years.
Know a guy that worked for boeing for 40ish years. He left. He said it became a sh*t show. So I don't know what you are talking about.Auggie wrote: ↑Nov 21, 2024Their issues with Boeing are all based on what the media has told them.Debaliviere91 wrote: ↑Nov 21, 2024Auggie folks on this thread are pointing out their issues with Boeing and explaining why. You’re regurgitating a viewpoint from some guy no one here knows who happens to fly a plane for a living.Auggie wrote:
So far I'm the only one who doesn't just regurgitate what you read on every news website ever reported by people who have no idea what they're talking about. No one here had an argument.
"Boeing pled guilty" yea no sh*t they were being tried by a government that was threatening to stop awarding them contracts and had already decided to ground a completely safe aircraft because 2 bad pilots crashed their planes.
But no keep believing what they distract you with while real problems just keep getting worse.
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My view takes into account a former Navy pilot who flies Boeing planes for United and trains pilots for United in Denver right now. He is far above anyone on here ever will be with regards to knowing anything about Boeing or plane safety- much less the moron politicians who act like they're doing their jobs.
My view challenged what you and everyone on here have had shoved down your throats for 5+ years, so you feel insecure. It's natural.
"I know a disgruntled employee who quit their job"TRUESONJB wrote: ↑Nov 22, 2024Know a guy that worked for boeing for 40ish years. He left. He said it became a sh*t show. So I don't know what you are talking about.Auggie wrote: ↑Nov 21, 2024Their issues with Boeing are all based on what the media has told them.Debaliviere91 wrote: ↑Nov 21, 2024Auggie folks on this thread are pointing out their issues with Boeing and explaining why. You’re regurgitating a viewpoint from some guy no one here knows who happens to fly a plane for a living.
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My view takes into account a former Navy pilot who flies Boeing planes for United and trains pilots for United in Denver right now. He is far above anyone on here ever will be with regards to knowing anything about Boeing or plane safety- much less the moron politicians who act like they're doing their jobs.
My view challenged what you and everyone on here have had shoved down your throats for 5+ years, so you feel insecure. It's natural.
Lemme know when planes start falling out of the sky. Disgruntled Boeing employee
