Had senior leaders in from Charlotte and Minneapolis Monday. We have GOT to get some traction on Railway Exchange, the adjacent garage, and Chemical. Standing outside to watch the eclipse we have a review of Railway, the back of Chemical, and several boarded up windows in 909 Chestnut. Later we walked the two block to dine at Union 30 (great dinner) but walking by all of these places is very depressing. No one made comments, but have an office right smack by these is deflating. I try and be a booster .... my peers from the burbs have zero interest in having a downtown location for us.
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"Amrit Gill said they were a week away from closing on a construction loan when the pandemic hit and markets froze." 
Wow. I liked the blend of hotel and apartments they had planned.STLrainbow wrote: ↑Apr 10, 2024"Amrit Gill said they were a week away from closing on a construction loan when the pandemic hit and markets froze."
This is listed for sale for $9M. I always wanted residential conversion and really wanted to buy or rent here in the early 2000s when residential conversion was first discussed. Hopefully it goes to good hands!
https://www.loopnet.com/Listing/721-777 ... /36171878/
https://www.loopnet.com/Listing/721-777 ... /36171878/
Seems like the Chemical will continue to deteriorate until St. Louis eliminates the two-stair building requirement. Ironic that a supposed fire safety code could lead to demolition by neglect of one of our most important historic high rises.
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^ There should be a way to nimbly fast track around any hold ups or bureaucratic snafus in order to get things done. I'm not suggesting we completely abandon any "safety" concerns but it's often a deal breaker. Save all the rules for government built public housing and take a more hands off approach for private endeavors.
Just think about this, from about 1870 to 1920 an entire teeming city was built essentially by hand with very little oversight, by drunken immigrants. Now we can barely maintain a build that's ALREADY built.
The bureaucracy is the killer of the human spirit. It's all very sad.
Just think about this, from about 1870 to 1920 an entire teeming city was built essentially by hand with very little oversight, by drunken immigrants. Now we can barely maintain a build that's ALREADY built.
The bureaucracy is the killer of the human spirit. It's all very sad.
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This.leeharveyawesome wrote: ↑Jul 09, 2025^ There should be a way to nimbly fast track around any hold ups or bureaucratic snafus in order to get things done. I'm not suggesting we completely abandon any "safety" concerns but it's often a deal breaker. Save all the rules for government built public housing and take a more hands off approach for private endeavors.
Just think about this, from about 1870 to 1920 an entire teeming city was built essentially by hand with very little oversight, by drunken immigrants. Now we can barely maintain a build that's ALREADY built.
The bureaucracy is the killer of the human spirit. It's all very sad.
Could not have said it better myself.leeharveyawesome wrote: ↑Jul 09, 2025^ There should be a way to nimbly fast track around any hold ups or bureaucratic snafus in order to get things done. I'm not suggesting we completely abandon any "safety" concerns but it's often a deal breaker. Save all the rules for government built public housing and take a more hands off approach for private endeavors.
Just think about this, from about 1870 to 1920 an entire teeming city was built essentially by hand with very little oversight, by drunken immigrants. Now we can barely maintain a build that's ALREADY built.
The bureaucracy is the killer of the human spirit. It's all very sad.
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The rules exist because the haphazard nature of the construction of these building by “drunk immigrants” (and children btw) led to them burning down. A lot. And killing scores of people.
Another illustration of our failed education system. The United States, especially its cities, were complete s**tholes until the at least the New Deal
Another illustration of our failed education system. The United States, especially its cities, were complete s**tholes until the at least the New Deal
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C'mon man. The entirety of CWE and everything around Forest Park and everything around Tower Grove and the Ville and Lafayette Square, almost the entire city was built decades before the New Deal. Was there crowded issues and pollution and sewer issues, of course. I would argue that the sh*t hole started to develop AFTER the New Deal and then was fully cemented after the Great Society. C'mon manJaneJacobsGhost wrote: ↑Jul 09, 2025The rules exist because the haphazard nature of the construction of these building by “drunk immigrants” (and children btw) led to them burning down. A lot. And killing scores of people.
Another illustration of our failed education system. The United States, especially its cities, were complete s**tholes until the at least the New Deal
Yeah, and sh*t holes compared to where? Like London, Paris, Mexico City, Tokyo, etc. were better/safer/cleaner during those eras? I'm not saying we need to revert to those pre-war standards (duh?) but the red-taping of America gives the distinct impression that government doesn't work. I can't help but feel that's part of why people don't have faith in institutions; it's not even that most people consciously think about it, like they might about local gov's, universities, etc -- but when all you see is stasis/decay with slight improvements everywhere, it's easy to think things aren't "getting better"
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Yes, you would argue that because you are an ignoramous.leeharveyawesome wrote: ↑Jul 09, 2025I would argue that the sh*t hole started to develop AFTER the New Deal and then was fully cemented after the Great Society. C'mon manJaneJacobsGhost wrote: ↑Jul 09, 2025The rules exist because the haphazard nature of the construction of these building by “drunk immigrants” (and children btw) led to them burning down. A lot. And killing scores of people.
Another illustration of our failed education system. The United States, especially its cities, were complete s**tholes until the at least the New Deal
Retvrn!
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To sum all this nonsense up. We do need some building codes and returning to the standards of the early 1900s would lead to a lot of issues.
There are regulations that probably don’t make sense in the modern day, like the 2 stair requirement for the Chemical building that hinder development.
Easy enough.
There are regulations that probably don’t make sense in the modern day, like the 2 stair requirement for the Chemical building that hinder development.
Easy enough.
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Is it nonsense? We have a poster saying America is a sh*thole because of civil rights.
Seems to me that the resident forum trad-boy fascists should be called out as such.
Seems to me that the resident forum trad-boy fascists should be called out as such.
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Well it’s nonsense in terms of the topic of this thread (The development of the Chemical Building).JaneJacobsGhost wrote:Is it nonsense? We have a poster saying America is a sh*thole because of civil rights.
Seems to me that the resident forum trad-boy fascists should be called out as such.
We could update some codes to speed along development while not reverting all the way back the standards of the early 1900s and seeing the negative externalities from those standards. It really is that simple.
I would have thought that Chemical would have been grandfathered in and not required 2 staircases? And what's stopping the BOA from passing a variance for it to make it exempt from that regulation?
Probably requires a more active alder who cares about activating a dead corner in prime location.Auggie wrote: ↑Jul 09, 2025I would have thought that Chemical would have been grandfathered in and not required 2 staircases? And what's stopping the BOA from passing a variance for it to make it exempt from that regulation?
A little sales history recap:
The building sold for $3 million in 2015 while in foreclosure.
Morgan Communities purchased the building for $4 million in 2017.
Restoration STL almost purchased the building for $5 million in 2020.
Campo purchased the building for $5 million in March 2022.
Campo listed the building for sale for $12 million in April 2024.
Campo dropped the price to $9 million in June 2025.
Property taxes are about $75,000 a year.
The building sold for $3 million in 2015 while in foreclosure.
Morgan Communities purchased the building for $4 million in 2017.
Restoration STL almost purchased the building for $5 million in 2020.
Campo purchased the building for $5 million in March 2022.
Campo listed the building for sale for $12 million in April 2024.
Campo dropped the price to $9 million in June 2025.
Property taxes are about $75,000 a year.
This was Cara Spencer's ward until very recently...bwcrow1s wrote: ↑Jul 09, 2025Probably requires a more active alder who cares about activating a dead corner in prime location.Auggie wrote: ↑Jul 09, 2025I would have thought that Chemical would have been grandfathered in and not required 2 staircases? And what's stopping the BOA from passing a variance for it to make it exempt from that regulation?
That is the least surprising thing I have ever heard. Hopefully the new Alder actually does her job correctly.
Chemical building was in Cara’s ward for all of three years, post-redistricting. The building sat vacant under multiple alders and Mayors for decades. Most notably, Jack Cotar who obviously didn’t have enough muscle to pull it over the line although supported many mega-projects downtown.Auggie wrote:That is the least surprising thing I have ever heard. Hopefully the new Alder actually does her job correctly.
Your disdain for her is really just hilarious at times.
And I’m sure the new Alderwoman will, backed by Cara herself.
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I mean hasn’t the building had an off and on development plan in various stages for most of the past 10 years that just keeps falling though?
"A city board last year was to consider tax abatement for the Chemical redevelopment, including a sales tax exemption on construction materials. But the Board of Aldermen, which gets final say on such incentives, has not considered such a request, according to a review of bills filed and considered.
The area's alderwoman, Cara Spencer, didn't immediately respond to questions."
It's almost like the area's alderwoman wasn't too concerned about pushing to get the requested tax breaks to try and get the development going. Hopefully the new alderwoman sees downtown and the vacant buildings as a bit of a higher priority and works with new ownership to get the necessary incentives to make a redevelopment plan work.
She should follow the footsteps of downtown's other Alderman, who is much more involved in redevelopment projects, even going as far as touring them. Would be a breath of fresh air.
The area's alderwoman, Cara Spencer, didn't immediately respond to questions."
It's almost like the area's alderwoman wasn't too concerned about pushing to get the requested tax breaks to try and get the development going. Hopefully the new alderwoman sees downtown and the vacant buildings as a bit of a higher priority and works with new ownership to get the necessary incentives to make a redevelopment plan work.
She should follow the footsteps of downtown's other Alderman, who is much more involved in redevelopment projects, even going as far as touring them. Would be a breath of fresh air.
It's so interesting how you think actual real criticism is "disdain". Her former ward features 3 well known vacant and delapidating buildings (Lemp, Chemical, and Millennium), yet she was absent amid the massive movement and plans on one of them, and never talked about or made any fuss about the other two. Just reflects poorly, that's all there is to it. It's not my fault she didn't do her job correctly, it's not yours either.addxb2 wrote: ↑Jul 09, 2025Chemical building was in Cara’s ward for all of three years, post-redistricting. The building sat vacant under multiple alders and Mayors for decades. Most notably, Jack Cotar who obviously didn’t have enough muscle to pull it over the line although supported many mega-projects downtown.Auggie wrote:That is the least surprising thing I have ever heard. Hopefully the new Alder actually does her job correctly.
Your disdain for her is really just hilarious at times.
And I’m sure the new Alderwoman will, backed by Cara herself.
The new alderwoman's STLPR interview was far more interesting and forward thinking than a single thing Cara Spencer has ever said, so I actually do think she will be a lot better for the 8th Ward.
Yes, that's absolutely what happened. The alderwoman was too lazy to bring forward a bill for tax abatement. Something she has done hundreds of times before. Odd how the extensive reporting which included feedback from both proposed developers didn't uncover this information. Aldridge is the alderman two blocks west and could've introduced the legislature himself also if that were the case.
The Gills lost financing to the pandemic. Anchor Point Hotel LLC didn't have the financing for this project and obviously didn't have the financing to complete Mark Twain either as reported last week. They both (Gills + Anchor Point) had extensive incentive programs regardless of whether every document was completed at the time they decided to back off the project.
The Gills lost financing to the pandemic. Anchor Point Hotel LLC didn't have the financing for this project and obviously didn't have the financing to complete Mark Twain either as reported last week. They both (Gills + Anchor Point) had extensive incentive programs regardless of whether every document was completed at the time they decided to back off the project.