There are sections in the code that outline building adjacency, material properties and fire ratings, as well as allowable openings and their restrictions an placement. Fire safety is very well covered in the code. Many of the codes that exist today are based on major fires of the past. The mid 1800s saw massive wide spread fires (STL 1849, Chicago 1871) due to building adjacencies and material combustibility. Like I said, most codes are reactionary and stem from loss of life and property.quincunx wrote: ↑Jul 16, 2025Wish we could consider these risks and liabilities against those created by building a car-oriented built environment.
Like a house had a fire on my block, and it spread to the house next to it which is a few feet away. You can mitigate that risk by mandating that houses be spread apart, but that means more driving and the dangers that come with it.
So did those engineers say what it would take to meet all the requirements? Is it too costly or is it something that simply cannot be done? If it is possible, this seems like a good project of GSL to step in, add the staircase or whatever they need to do, then sell it to a developer that can now rehab it.stlnative wrote: ↑Jul 16, 2025Seattle has had a single stair exception for awhile. Yes, Austin did just approve single stair a few months ago. But they all come with limitations. Seattle is 3 stories, and up to 6 with additional conditions. Austin is up to 5 stories. Clearly those code exceptions would still not work on this building. St. Louis City also has code exceptions for single stair buildings. Ch. 25.20.020 Section 101 704.2 Alternate to Second Stair.
704.2
Alternate to Second Stair. An existing building shall be allowed to have a single stair provided it complies with all of the following conditions:
1. The entire building shall be fully sprinklered, all rooms and spaces with no exceptions. (obtainable)
2. Floor area shall be 10,000 square feet or less per floor. (obtainable)
3. The window sill height on the top floor shall be 100 feet or less from the lowest level of Fire Department vehicle access. (un-obtainable)
4. Standby power, light, and emergency systems are required in all buildings having occupied floors located more than 75 feet above the lowest level of Fire Department vehicle access. (obtainable)
5. Public corridors shall have a two hour fire rated construction in a straight line with no turns. All tenant separation wall, partitions, and floor/ceiling assemblies shall be a minimum of two-hour fire-rated construction. (obtainable)
6. The entire building shall have a complete fire alarm system. (obtainable)
7. Groups above the fifth floor shall be limited to B, M, R, S-1 and S-2. H Group occupancies shall not be allowed in the building. (obtainable)
8. Atriums and communicating stairs are not allowed in the building. (obtainable)
9. Stair enclosure shall be a minimum two hour fire rated construction with mechanical pressurization and automatic fire detection systems powered by an approved standby power system and a standpipe and hose connections at each floor. Stair shall be constructed of steel, steel pan, concrete or acceptable non-combustible construction. (un-obtainable)
10. All public corridors shall have emergency and exit lighting. (obtainable)
11. Stair shall discharge directly to the exterior or be connected to an exterior exit by a two-hour fire-rated exit access corridor enclosure. (obtainable)
12. The basement, if used for any purpose other than mechanical equipment or storage, must have two means of egress. (obtainable)
I would want nothing more than to save this beautiful building, its well deserving of a refresh and stabilization for another 100 years, but we can't disregard life safety. Making a point about how no one has died in a fire there yet, so no need for improvements, is a pretty poor way to consider human life. What happens when all of the requirements are relaxed for this, a fire happens, and there's a large loss of life because occupants couldn't get past an obstacle on their only way out? Who's to blame? Who goes to jail? No one is willing to take this liability. No developer, architect, engineer or city official will sign off on that risk.
I've talked to some structural engineers who have evaluated the building on some previous iterations, and as beautiful as the existing cast iron stair is, its not suitable for occupancy and needs extensive repair, if even possible.
While I don't have any knowledge of the building, it seems as though the second staircase is the biggest hangup. If it had two, it would already be complete - based on what I read here and elsewhere, but there may be more to it, of course.
Another item that complicates the stair and its code compliance is that it is a winder stair and doesn't have proper mid landings. While stunningly beautiful, it creates a big hazard for occupants needing to egress quickly. They are tripping hazards since the tread width is inconsistent and only gets as small as a few inches on the inner portion of the tread and could create a pile up in the only stair.
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^just cause I was curious what that looked like. *Flashback (https://nextstl.com/2017/09/chemical-bu ... ent-begin/)
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Does anyone know if the floor plans are on the webs? I tried googling it. If the common halls do not abut the rear exterior walls, maybe they could sacrifice a unit on both ends of each floor and punch thru to newly constructed stair towers? I'm just an urbanist sitting at a laptop, surely this has already been considered/determined unfeasible by the experts, but seems it's worth asking...johnnyqnola wrote: ↑Jul 16, 2025I haven't seen the floor plans, but can it be assumed that previous potential developers have determined it's not feasible to add 1 or 2 external stair towers? Slapped on the back of the building and connected to common hallways? May not result in a handsome addition, but if it would save the winding stairs - and the whole building - who cares if the back/alley side is a little uglier?
Restoration STL was only one week away from securing the construction loan before COVID hit. Seems like they must have developed a solution?
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I was legally allowed to go through this building the other day. Going through it during the day gives a much different impression than the nighttime urban exploration videos. It really needs a good bath inside (especially the first floor, condo model on 12, and the penthouse level), but it's not like I thought it was (in a good way). Honestly, the worst part of the building are the dead pigeons, mountains of pigeon sh*t, and trash/urine bottles from the one building resident (who wasn't there during my visit).
Some views for your viewing pleasure. Didn't realize the rooftop pool at Hotel Saint Louis is level with the roof of the Chemical.
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Some views for your viewing pleasure. Didn't realize the rooftop pool at Hotel Saint Louis is level with the roof of the Chemical.
Ha, ya don't say!?
BTW, if I'm in the office and I see people on the roof, I usually try to take a picture. Ya know, just in case.
BTW, if I'm in the office and I see people on the roof, I usually try to take a picture. Ya know, just in case.
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You caught me with the look of disgust knowing I just walked up 17 floors of stairs on a 90 degree morning.Tim wrote: ↑Jul 28, 2025Ha, ya don't say!?
BTW, if I'm in the office and I see people on the roof, I usually try to take a picture. Ya know, just in case.20250725_113630(0).jpg
It's a complete tragedy if this building doesn't get renovated, ASAP! What beautiful views of the DT.
It's also holding that intersection back. You have OPO, Arcade, and Laclede's Gas all activated and contributing and then the black hole that is Chemical. Even going down the street a bit, you have retail space in a not-terrible garage that could maybe be filled with a couple hundreds extra residents.courtland wrote: ↑Jul 28, 2025It's a complete tragedy if this building doesn't get renovated, ASAP! What beautiful views of the DT.
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The group I walked through the building for decided not to proceed with an offer, but I was told today that the building is under contract by someone. Hopefully this group is the one who breaks the curse and gets this one done.
^Uh-oh, that's usually not a good sign. Are you able to give any more details about them?
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$135m plan for 108 apartments and 120 room hotel
Developers are from Nevada and Colorado and locally led by Jay Simon of Metropolitan Build
Developers are from Nevada and Colorado and locally led by Jay Simon of Metropolitan Build
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what about something about a staircase (in the back or somewhere) that needed to be added in order to move on with any re-do?
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Great news!
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Wonderful news! Sounds like a solid conversion plan too! Does anyone know if the Hotel Saint Louis people are involved with this at all? I remember that they were not happy about this building remaining vacant and seemed to want to do something about it.
Hope this one goes through - over 20 years since the first proposal
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Does the announcement coincide with the State's approval of the tax credit bill related to AT&T & Downtown STL vacant buildings?
Yes, they said they could benefit from $20 million in tax credits through it.DogtownBnR wrote:Does the announcement coincide with the State's approval of the tax credit bill related to AT&T & Downtown STL vacant buildings?
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Good news! Hope this is a harvester of things to come with regards to development of vacant buildings Downtown. Get those done, build some momentum & hopefully we'll see some new developments down the road once the long vacant properties are all done.