If AA wants to keep a club it definitely would be in a new space in the new construction.
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Personally i would think they should make T2 the international arrival terminal. Keep T1 all domestic to streamline the layout, so no need for customs and such.STLinCHI wrote: ↑Nov 10, 2023Looks like D is staying. Really think T2 is going to be a consolidated rental car facility.
There might be some issues with that that concept that i am unawares but from a surface level it makes sense.
STLinCHI, What makes you think D is staying? I understand that the existing concourses A, B, C & D (in black) are gone and replaced by single linear concourse.
Reminds of my Delta connecting flight through Salt Lake City, SLC, new terminal this past week
Reminds of my Delta connecting flight through Salt Lake City, SLC, new terminal this past week
I am pretty sure D will be gone. I can't think of any reasonable reason to keep it. It is old and in just as bad of shape as the rest of T1dredger wrote: ↑Nov 11, 2023STLinCHI, What makes you think D is staying? I understand that the existing concourses A, B, C & D (in black) are gone and replaced by single linear concourse.
Reminds of my Delta connecting flight through Salt Lake City, SLC, new terminal this past week
Think bigger for Terminal 2! It’s a huge economic development opportunity. The Boeing Center for Innovation in Aviation has a good ring to it. Geospatial and Aviation go hand in hand. Let’s give startups some space in a real airport. Convert the structure to four floors of office space.
The shading key indicates A,B and C will be demolished. D is not shaded the same. We definitely need a consolidated rental facility and a T-2 set-up would eliminate the need for shuttles, optimizing vehicular traffic movement at the terminal. The existing T-2 garage seems sized about right to handle multiple rental car operators, similar to many other airports around the world. Land currently utilized by rental lots could then be redeveloped and the airport could collect rental revenue it currently misses. A hotel would be nice but I suspect building a tower may be impossible due to flight path alignment with the newer runway.dredger wrote: ↑Nov 11, 2023STLinCHI, What makes you think D is staying? I understand that the existing concourses A, B, C & D (in black) are gone and replaced by single linear concourse.
Reminds of my Delta connecting flight through Salt Lake City, SLC, new terminal this past week
Ok.. we are all way ahead of ourselves.
This is just a conceptual drawing that has no real plans in stone.
Until the airport gets the actual artists renderings from all and any architects bidding on the complex... forget the speculations... really.
Everything in the old airport T1 will be torn down except for the historic domes to be reconfigured. All garages, all concourses ... everything will be gone.
T2 is still in limbo planning. I can see it being used for possible charter flights and a consolodtaed rental car center sorely needed connected to the big terminal bu shuttles or train.
The new terminal will be long... possibly one of the longest linear terminals in the country.
As for I70... MODOT is going to completely redo the entire airport complex portion of the freeway with the new terminal plans. MODOT has already ear marked that and will be part of the planning. NO more easy on off exit ramps ... most likely all new entrances from the West/ Cypress Road is what I understand.
Let's just wait ...
This is just a conceptual drawing that has no real plans in stone.
Until the airport gets the actual artists renderings from all and any architects bidding on the complex... forget the speculations... really.
Everything in the old airport T1 will be torn down except for the historic domes to be reconfigured. All garages, all concourses ... everything will be gone.
T2 is still in limbo planning. I can see it being used for possible charter flights and a consolodtaed rental car center sorely needed connected to the big terminal bu shuttles or train.
The new terminal will be long... possibly one of the longest linear terminals in the country.
As for I70... MODOT is going to completely redo the entire airport complex portion of the freeway with the new terminal plans. MODOT has already ear marked that and will be part of the planning. NO more easy on off exit ramps ... most likely all new entrances from the West/ Cypress Road is what I understand.
Let's just wait ...
I wouldn’t want that to be where T2 is. Put it on the Boeing side. T2 space needs to be something convenient for passengers. Rental cars, hotel type thing. You really could do both. Rebuild the garage big enough to hold all rental cars. Put an hotel in where T2 is. Office space for locals can go about anywhere on property.addxb2 wrote: ↑Nov 11, 2023Think bigger for Terminal 2! It’s a huge economic development opportunity. The Boeing Center for Innovation in Aviation has a good ring to it. Geospatial and Aviation go hand in hand. Let’s give startups some space in a real airport. Convert the structure to four floors of office space.
^ Agree w Jshank83. This will also be a huge opportunity to have on airport hotel, more on airport parking and consolidated rental car location. As a frequent biz traveler these are all huge amenities. More importantly for Lambert, parking and adding on airport hotel will add more revenue at relatively low risk, decent return on investment.
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The new terminal renderings will offer a much more details. Like I said this is all preliminary.
The new terminal will have 62 to 70 gates (depending on final architecture.
The new terminal will have 62 to 70 gates (depending on final architecture.
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Agree. I don't see Airport adjacency being of significant value to a startup or Boeing unless we are talking manufacturing of aircraft which there are several sites on the north side of the airport that are ideal for that purpose.jshank83 wrote: ↑Nov 11, 2023I wouldn’t want that to be where T2 is. Put it on the Boeing side. T2 space needs to be something convenient for passengers. Rental cars, hotel type thing. You really could do both. Rebuild the garage big enough to hold all rental cars. Put an hotel in where T2 is. Office space for locals can go about anywhere on property.addxb2 wrote: ↑Nov 11, 2023Think bigger for Terminal 2! It’s a huge economic development opportunity. The Boeing Center for Innovation in Aviation has a good ring to it. Geospatial and Aviation go hand in hand. Let’s give startups some space in a real airport. Convert the structure to four floors of office space.
I still think if could i would put a consolidated rental car facility at the SW Corner where I170 meets I70 and add a metrolink stop for it as well.
Airport Hotel is a smart addition but the terminal is tailor made for loading aircraft so its hard to imagine an alternate use for it without MAJOR renovations or total demo.
SO international gates still make the most sense to me. It stream lines the design of T1 because you would no longer need C&BP in both places. A few issues with T2 as international terminal remain like could it handle bigger aircraft, and programming the inflow to customs and just generally do we have enough International arrivals to justify a terminal of this size. Still its what i would be inclined to do with it.
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Agree very much with @matguy70 that we must be patient for future renderings before we have a solid idea as to what the future holds.
Reminder that a whole lot of variables remain in flux. The biggest one, perhaps, is Boeing's bids for the NGAD/FA-XX and related Loyal Wingman Drone contracts. Note that the Brownleigh site at the NE corner of the airport would be occupied by Boeing completely for new manufacturing and development, recognizing already that they intend to have a Phantom Works expansion on the site already. Schematics for the airport's expansion had envisioned that area being a consolidated center for air cargo operations, and that no other sites on the airport grounds have been proposed as a new cargo operations center. Should Boeing win even a part of the contract (knock wood), the Brownleigh site would be fully taken, and air cargo would have to go somewhere else. Only after all of that would we begin to see actual renderings emerge. So, keep an eye out for what the Air Force and Navy intend, with knowledge that only afterwards will we see renderings for STL.
Reminder that a whole lot of variables remain in flux. The biggest one, perhaps, is Boeing's bids for the NGAD/FA-XX and related Loyal Wingman Drone contracts. Note that the Brownleigh site at the NE corner of the airport would be occupied by Boeing completely for new manufacturing and development, recognizing already that they intend to have a Phantom Works expansion on the site already. Schematics for the airport's expansion had envisioned that area being a consolidated center for air cargo operations, and that no other sites on the airport grounds have been proposed as a new cargo operations center. Should Boeing win even a part of the contract (knock wood), the Brownleigh site would be fully taken, and air cargo would have to go somewhere else. Only after all of that would we begin to see actual renderings emerge. So, keep an eye out for what the Air Force and Navy intend, with knowledge that only afterwards will we see renderings for STL.
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Maybe build a hotel where T2 is and keep parts of the existing building for international flights. It would be cool to have a roof top restaurant and observation deck to watch the airplanes. They could also build a small exposition hall and meeting space that is bigger than the old B concourse meeting area currently.
There is ZERO chance Southwest signs off on having international arrivals in separate terminal. The entire point of this is to get everyone under one roof to make it easier for everyone. No one wants to have to tow planes from T2 to the new terminal to board them. Plus the expense to run two terminals after we just built a new one would be a waste.STLEnginerd wrote: ↑Nov 13, 2023Agree. I don't see Airport adjacency being of significant value to a startup or Boeing unless we are talking manufacturing of aircraft which there are several sites on the north side of the airport that are ideal for that purpose.jshank83 wrote: ↑Nov 11, 2023I wouldn’t want that to be where T2 is. Put it on the Boeing side. T2 space needs to be something convenient for passengers. Rental cars, hotel type thing. You really could do both. Rebuild the garage big enough to hold all rental cars. Put an hotel in where T2 is. Office space for locals can go about anywhere on property.addxb2 wrote: ↑Nov 11, 2023Think bigger for Terminal 2! It’s a huge economic development opportunity. The Boeing Center for Innovation in Aviation has a good ring to it. Geospatial and Aviation go hand in hand. Let’s give startups some space in a real airport. Convert the structure to four floors of office space.
I still think if could i would put a consolidated rental car facility at the SW Corner where I170 meets I70 and add a metrolink stop for it as well.
Airport Hotel is a smart addition but the terminal is tailor made for loading aircraft so its hard to imagine an alternate use for it without MAJOR renovations or total demo.
SO international gates still make the most sense to me. It stream lines the design of T1 because you would no longer need C&BP in both places. A few issues with T2 as international terminal remain like could it handle bigger aircraft, and programming the inflow to customs and just generally do we have enough International arrivals to justify a terminal of this size. Still its what i would be inclined to do with it.
I personally think T2 is getting torn down. They just haven’t decided what will be built in its place yet. The only realistic option if you are going to leave it up is to make it event/conference space. If you gut it and make it one big room, that could be divided, it wouldn’t be too bad. You could also make it a rental car center, but it’s probably too big a space for that.
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Agreed - T2 would make a great convention/event space with partitioning.jshank83 wrote: ↑Nov 15, 2023I personally think T2 is getting torn down. They just haven’t decided what will be built in its place yet. The only realistic option if you are going to leave it up is to make it event/conference space. If you gut it and make it one big room, that could be divided, it wouldn’t be too bad. You could also make it a rental car center, but it’s probably too big a space for that.
Wouldn't the CPB area (really, the whole building connecting T2 with D where the Wingtips Lounge is) make for an alright rental car center? It's just as close to the garage and already has a pretty large exterior door and more than enough space for rental counters.
If they demolish the garage and rebuild it, it probably would work for rental cars. I’m not sure the building is exactly the setup you would want but it is already there so the cost savings of just converting it might be worth keeping it. There might be a way to divide it for rental car and conference space.Trololzilla wrote: ↑Nov 15, 2023Agreed - T2 would make a great convention/event space with partitioning.jshank83 wrote: ↑Nov 15, 2023I personally think T2 is getting torn down. They just haven’t decided what will be built in its place yet. The only realistic option if you are going to leave it up is to make it event/conference space. If you gut it and make it one big room, that could be divided, it wouldn’t be too bad. You could also make it a rental car center, but it’s probably too big a space for that.
Wouldn't the CPB area (really, the whole building connecting T2 with D where the Wingtips Lounge is) make for an alright rental car center? It's just as close to the garage and already has a pretty large exterior door and more than enough space for rental counters.
In theory, with the lower level expansion coming the downstairs could be rental car counters and that leaves the upstairs for convention/conference space.
So I guess there are a couple options.
Lots of good stuff in this, probably most exciting…
“Christina Semmel, spokeswoman for Lufthansa, said in an email Thursday that “We are absolutely keen to expand the service to more days per week.”
“We are evaluating this prospect and determining what is the right timing to do this,” she said.
Semmel said she was unable to answer a question about whether additional financial support would be necessary to continue the route at the end of the current agreement.
“By all expectations, the route will continue to be highly successful after the incentive program ends,” said Tony Wyche, spokesman for Greater St. Louis.”
St. Louis, Kansas City working to land state money for international flights
https://www.stltoday.com/news/local/bus ... a72e0.html
“Christina Semmel, spokeswoman for Lufthansa, said in an email Thursday that “We are absolutely keen to expand the service to more days per week.”
“We are evaluating this prospect and determining what is the right timing to do this,” she said.
Semmel said she was unable to answer a question about whether additional financial support would be necessary to continue the route at the end of the current agreement.
“By all expectations, the route will continue to be highly successful after the incentive program ends,” said Tony Wyche, spokesman for Greater St. Louis.”
St. Louis, Kansas City working to land state money for international flights
https://www.stltoday.com/news/local/bus ... a72e0.html
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Does anyone have any idea when United is going to restart the SFO route?
We have been hearing they are happy and want to add flights for how long now? I’ll believe it when I see it.addxb2 wrote: ↑Nov 18, 2023Lots of good stuff in this, probably most exciting…
“Christina Semmel, spokeswoman for Lufthansa, said in an email Thursday that “We are absolutely keen to expand the service to more days per week.”
“We are evaluating this prospect and determining what is the right timing to do this,” she said.
Semmel said she was unable to answer a question about whether additional financial support would be necessary to continue the route at the end of the current agreement.
“By all expectations, the route will continue to be highly successful after the incentive program ends,” said Tony Wyche, spokesman for Greater St. Louis.”
St. Louis, Kansas City working to land state money for international flights
https://www.stltoday.com/news/local/bus ... a72e0.html
That said, I think this does present an opportunity for another airline to come and start flights in while Lufthansa screws around. If things are as good as they say they are that means there is demand that needs to be filled. Wouldn’t be the worst idea for someone else to jump on it before Lufthansa moves to 5x a week. Which maybe wouldn’t be in the cards if they already had added flights.
So my one little optimistic thought it maybe this means we get a 2nd airline faster than we would have. But we’ll see how it plays out
What is the green area between the terminal and the concourse supposed to be?jshank83 wrote: ↑Nov 09, 2023I hadn’t seen this drawing yet. Apparently will have 3 widebody gates.
Link
https://www.flystl.com/uploads/document ... educed.pdf
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^The key says the light green color is "non-aeronautical development." I don't have any inside information, but if I had to guess, I'd bet it will be office space, conference, rooms, and landside communications. Corridors and escalators. That overlaps pretty closely with the present C/D security checkpoint, which used to be a nice open two-story almost lobby like area with plants and the Spirit of St. Louis replica currently in the history museum back in the day. And the Lindbergh conference room is in there and much of the old Ambasador's club. The lower floor, where much of the office space is now, is going to require a near complete redesign for the new baggage return and customs and so forth. I'd bet they move the landside administrative offices out of there and put them in the green area you're talking about. Hard to be sure, but that's my guess. If they plan to retain the stub of D for Metrolink access, it'd be kind of cool to restore and reopen the two story atrium that used to be there. Maybe even find a plane to hang there again.
Good news A321XLR can make it to STL from Dublin.
Bad news I expected enough range to hit cities like Paris, London, etc also and it looks like that probably isn’t likely.
Bad news I expected enough range to hit cities like Paris, London, etc also and it looks like that probably isn’t likely.
St. Louis also makes an appearance on Iceland Air’s aspirational route map. Nothing confirmed but nice to see STL is on their radar.
** There was some discussion on airliners that this might be KC but it’s too far east when considering placement of Denver, Chicago, and Minneapolis on this map. It really looks like Quincy, Illinois but since that’s impossible… I’m going with St. Louis.
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** There was some discussion on airliners that this might be KC but it’s too far east when considering placement of Denver, Chicago, and Minneapolis on this map. It really looks like Quincy, Illinois but since that’s impossible… I’m going with St. Louis.
Negotiations with airlines could be done next summer. Almost a year earlier than originally anticipated. Would be nice to see things get moving quicker than expected.
After reaching agreements, Lambert could begin its approval and 18-month design processes
https://www.bizjournals.com/stlouis/new ... -2023.html
After reaching agreements, Lambert could begin its approval and 18-month design processes
https://www.bizjournals.com/stlouis/new ... -2023.html