St. Louis Lambert Int. Airport [airline/hub/operations/info]

codymartinpianist · PostNov 29, 2023#81762023-11-29T13:55+00:00

Forgive me if this has already been mentioned...I haven't seen it anywhere in my scrolling of this [incredible] thread!

Looking back at the old C customs facility...does anybody remember where exactly arriving passengers reentered the C concourse after clearing customs? I can see the stairwell (escalator?) that they took down there on the north side of the concourse, and I know they were required to re-screen and reenter the concourse because it wasn't connected to the nonsecure area. But I have no idea where exactly they reentered. Anybody know?

jshank83 · PostNov 29, 2023#81772023-11-29T15:21+00:00

codymartinpianist wrote: ↑
Nov 29, 2023
Forgive me if this has already been mentioned...I haven't seen it anywhere in my scrolling of this [incredible] thread!

Looking back at the old C customs facility...does anybody remember where exactly arriving passengers reentered the C concourse after clearing customs? I can see the stairwell (escalator?) that they took down there on the north side of the concourse, and I know they were required to re-screen and reenter the concourse because it wasn't connected to the nonsecure area. But I have no idea where exactly they reentered. Anybody know?

I have floor plans. I’ll try to remember to look tonight if no one else answers.

codymartinpianist · PostNov 29, 2023#81782023-11-29T16:23+00:00

jshank83 wrote: ↑
Nov 29, 2023
codymartinpianist wrote: ↑
Nov 29, 2023
Forgive me if this has already been mentioned...I haven't seen it anywhere in my scrolling of this [incredible] thread!

Looking back at the old C customs facility...does anybody remember where exactly arriving passengers reentered the C concourse after clearing customs? I can see the stairwell (escalator?) that they took down there on the north side of the concourse, and I know they were required to re-screen and reenter the concourse because it wasn't connected to the nonsecure area. But I have no idea where exactly they reentered. Anybody know?
I have floor plans. I’ll try to remember to look tonight if no one else answers.

yes, please!

jshank83 · PostNov 30, 2023#81792023-11-30T02:02+00:00

codymartinpianist wrote: ↑
Nov 29, 2023
Forgive me if this has already been mentioned...I haven't seen it anywhere in my scrolling of this [incredible] thread!

Looking back at the old C customs facility...does anybody remember where exactly arriving passengers reentered the C concourse after clearing customs? I can see the stairwell (escalator?) that they took down there on the north side of the concourse, and I know they were required to re-screen and reenter the concourse because it wasn't connected to the nonsecure area. But I have no idea where exactly they reentered. Anybody know?

This is the apron level floor plan from 2016 so I don't know if things were changed since it was customs and I never personally went thru them so this is 100% my guessing by the arrows. I assume those are baggage belts on either side where I have 2 arrows. There is an elevator by C28 (box with x) so that and those stairs might be where they went back up instead.

symphonicpoet · PostNov 30, 2023#81802023-11-30T08:20+00:00

^That's always been my read of the plans. I've still never cleared customs here and I've been flying internationally off and on since the 90s, so . . . I'm just guessing too. But I've been through a lot of customs halls, and there's a certain logic to them that you kind of have to follow. Passport control would have to be the counters just to the right of the plans, so you'd claim your bags at either of the two big carousels on the right. The counters in the middle are probably customs and agricultural inspection. The little stub ended carousel on the top at the left end of things should be where you recheck if you're connecting. Not sure if security would also have been in the hall with the question marks, but that seems likely. That or it was at the top of the stairs, but they usually like to keep it in the basement in the customs halls where I've connected, and there's not a lot of space upstairs. I figure the fact that it's in the grey color of the vacant customs hall and not the pink of the emergency exits (or the corridors elsewhere) is a bit of a hint. The way the plan is laid out even implies that its square footage is a part of the 31K of the customs hall figure. Anyway, I agree with your reading.

codymartinpianist · PostNov 30, 2023#81812023-11-30T13:13+00:00

symphonicpoet wrote: ↑
Nov 30, 2023
^That's always been my read of the plans. I've still never cleared customs here and I've been flying internationally off and on since the 90s, so . . . I'm just guessing too. But I've been through a lot of customs halls, and there's a certain logic to them that you kind of have to follow. Passport control would have to be the counters just to the right of the plans, so you'd claim your bags at either of the two big carousels on the right. The counters in the middle are probably customs and agricultural inspection. The little stub ended carousel on the top at the left end of things should be where you recheck if you're connecting. Not sure if security would also have been in the hall with the question marks, but that seems likely. That or it was at the top of the stairs, but they usually like to keep it in the basement in the customs halls where I've connected, and there's not a lot of space upstairs. I figure the fact that it's in the grey color of the vacant customs hall and not the pink of the emergency exits (or the corridors elsewhere) is a bit of a hint. The way the plan is laid out even implies that its square footage is a part of the 31K of the customs hall figure. Anyway, I agree with your reading.

Gotcha...that all makes total sense. It's really interesting to look at an older customs layout like this that relies heavily on staircases rather than escalators...I feel like almost every modern secure corridor has an escalator down/up to the FIS.

symphonicpoet · PostDec 01, 2023#81822023-12-01T06:54+00:00

^Really? It's been a few years, but I recall lots of stairs in Chicago's T5. (Dark, narrow stairs into the basement.) Don't really remember escalators in LAX either. (That also felt pretty grim, to be fair. Not Heathrow stinky moldy grim, but grim.) I also won't guarantee those aren't escalators. The escalators between the T1 ticket counters and the T1 screening area and baggage claim look different, but in T2 it all looks the same; like stairs. I spend very little time in T2, so I can't quite recall. Is it stairs between the upper departure level and the lower arrival level? (And the vertical connections to the gates in the T2 customs hall also appear to be stairs.) I'm flying international again in February. I'll try to remember to watch more closely. Heck, thinking back I seem to recall even in Shanghai's brand new terminal I was hiking up stairs immediately after arrival. There are plenty of escalators there, mind, but immediately after arrival we were funnelled into a narrow stair tower kind of operation with passport control on a landing that still had bare concrete floors and still smelled like construction dust. Maybe it wasn't quite finished, to be fair. It looked kind of half-assed. Things definitely looked and smelled hastily built and poorly constructed.

Anyway, I don't think I'd blink at stairs. I sort of expect customs to be bleak, no matter where I go, and I'm pleasantly surprised when it isn't. (The T2 customs hall looks nice from the pictures I've seen. Those were after a remodel maybe ten years ago now.)

RuskiSTL · PostDec 06, 2023#81832023-12-06T02:27+00:00

Anyone been on the FRA flight lately?

I did it for the first time in September and I have to say it was really disappointing. The plane was so old and had so many problems. But mainly I'm worried because even in September the flight was freezing. I just booked for mid January and I'm worried if I made a mistake

Have they been sending the same shoddy planes? Or have they been decent of late?

jshank83 · PostDec 06, 2023#81842023-12-06T05:57+00:00

RuskiSTL wrote: ↑
Dec 06, 2023
Anyone been on the FRA flight lately?

I did it for the first time in September and I have to say it was really disappointing. The plane was so old and had so many problems. But mainly I'm worried because even in September the flight was freezing. I just booked for mid January and I'm worried if I made a mistake

Have they been sending the same shoddy planes? Or have they been decent of late?

I think all their 330s are around the same age. Doesn’t mean some aren’t worn more than others but I’d guess most are similar.

JaneJacobsGhost · PostDec 06, 2023#81852023-12-06T14:58+00:00

I’ve heard the same comment. St. Louis put its best foot forward for Lufthansa. It would be a shame to learn Lufthansa hasn’t done the same.

jeffrk · PostDec 06, 2023#81862023-12-06T15:24+00:00

RuskiSTL wrote: ↑
Dec 06, 2023
Anyone been on the FRA flight lately?

I did it for the first time in September and I have to say it was really disappointing. The plane was so old and had so many problems. But mainly I'm worried because even in September the flight was freezing. I just booked for mid January and I'm worried if I made a mistake

Have they been sending the same shoddy planes? Or have they been decent of late?

We flew the STL-FRA flight in late October, and the FRA-STL return in mid-November. We have a few nits to pick with Lufthansa, but the equipment (A333 both ways) was just fine.

matguy70 · PostDec 06, 2023#81872023-12-06T23:36+00:00

Hmmm. strange.

We have flown 7 times back and forth since last summer. The planes have always been nice and clean. Great service to boot. I watch flightradar24 every week / day they fly and the planes are all 7-15 years old - no older ever. The same planes are used on different USA routes as well. Now, there was a plane "issue/shortage/substitute" with them using the A340 last month (the four engine) which is a bit older - but again, we have never experienced an older plane or had amenity issues at all. The flight in the sky right now is D-AIKM (the oldest plane they use on the route I have seen)... it is 15 years old (Feb 2008 released) and the oldrest aircraft they fly to/from STL. That aircraft I have not flown on the route. Yet on last Sunday the aircraft was only 7 years of age. But again, most US based carriers are averaging much older TATL aircraft than that of Lufthansa.

Sorry to hear you had trouble and hope you let them know.

I look at it like this... fly any airline domestic and get an aircraft from 1999 to brand new - ANY airline - United having the oldest fleet - then Delta. I fly Southwest every month and can have a 20 year old aircraft that needs a little attention to a brand new 800-MAX. The sane I can say on any other airline as a flight watcher. Took Iberia ORD to MAD last month and it was a a330-300 and was 17 years old and needed a bit of updates.

Believe me - Lufthansa isn't pitting aircraft to certain airports TATL - they are using what they have and maximizing their fleet) as all airlines are doing these days. Covid put a break on new aircraft production and slowed it down - as well as airlines purchasing their orders during their last 3 years.

In the air right now Lufthansa:

FRA TO:
ORD (747 10 years old)
IAD (747 9 years old)
EWR (A340 17 years old)
BOS (A340 17 years old)
JFK (A340 15 years old)
MIA (747 10 years old)

TO FRA:
DTW (A340 26 years old)
ORD (A340 14 years old)
DFW (787 4 years old)
IAH (A330 15 years old)
SFO (747 11 years old)
LAX (747 11 years old)
SEA (A340 22 years old)
MIA (747 10 years old)
JFK (A340 15 years old)
JFK (747 21 years old)
BOS (A340 15 years old)

dbInSouthCity · PostDec 07, 2023#81882023-12-07T01:16+00:00

I’ve used it 3 times and my mom will be going for the 4th time in a few weeks and it’s been great.

ldai_phs · PostDec 09, 2023#81892023-12-09T03:13+00:00

JaneJacobsGhost wrote:I’ve heard the same comment. St. Louis put its best foot forward for Lufthansa. It would be a shame to learn Lufthansa hasn’t done the same.

I think it’s a general Lufthansa issue. Have flown their routes to larger US cities and had many of the same issues. It’s not just STL and the A330s that need work.

I will also say, i also miss free wifi when I fly any airline without it.

matguy70 · PostDec 09, 2023#81902023-12-09T06:18+00:00

Lufthansa is a top notch airline. I love flying the A330's... a widebody is the only way to fly over the pond IMO. The planes are nicer than most US based carriers over the pond (especially AA) and the service is next to none these days. The food is good and their oboard entertainment systems are full of everything you can want.
We just haven't had any complaints about them at all and quite honestly they have become our favorite EU to US carrier, not just because we can now fly nonstop from STL.

RuskiSTL · PostDec 09, 2023#81912023-12-09T14:50+00:00

matguy70 wrote: ↑
Dec 09, 2023
Lufthansa is a top notch airline. I love flying the A330's... a widebody is the only way to fly over the pond IMO. The planes are nicer than most US based carriers over the pond (especially AA) and the service is next to none these days. The food is good and their oboard entertainment systems are full of everything you can want.
We just haven't had any complaints about them at all and quite honestly they have become our favorite EU to US carrier, not just because we can now fly nonstop from STL.

I'm happy to hear so many positive opinions. I fly a lot of long haul but not from the US anymore. The one time I did FRA-STL, we took off about 1-2 hours late because the toilets were leaking and the pilot told us to be grateful that we didn't wait for a different plane cause it would be another 4-5 hour wait. He literally told us to not leave our seats without shoes because of potential toilet water!

I felt the seats/aircraft in general was so narrow compared to anything on United/CanadaI usually take from NY/YYZ. Because of how narrow it was, the stewardess kept hitting my shoulders/legs in the aisle (I'm far from an obese man). And the entertainment system was completely malfunctioning, like it only turned on for maybe 45% of the flight and even then was super buggy.

Based on these comments, it seems I had a weird experience. Hoping to have my opinion changed

Thanks all

stl07 · PostDec 09, 2023#81922023-12-09T21:13+00:00

I can understand the mixed opinions. Lufthansa is a far better airline than most US carriers, so those local to STL and without relatives/family abroad feel that Lufthansa is absolutely amazing. Those that have traveled abroad on other foreign airlines (especially Asian or Arab ones) have experienced a level of service that is significantly above LH, so they find the LH service to be mediocre as they were expecting a bit more from a (former) Skytrax 5-star airline.

jshank83 · PostDec 10, 2023#81932023-12-10T05:44+00:00

Lufthansa loads for November (customs numbers)
Good to see it staying in the 80s for November

inbound outbound total
2606 2917 5523
3339 3339 6678
78.05% 87.36% 82.70%

29% foreign citizen
71% US citizen

Nov 1 flight was the A340 it was 219 inbound 248 outbound so it wasn't over capacity for the normal A330 (255 seats) but it added 24 seats to the available loads. LF would have been 83.3% total for the month if that flight had been flown on an A330

November last year was the same amount of flights but 5366 total passengers so nice to see that number going up still.

Again, the customs number clocks a bit higher than what DOT will release but it still should be above last November when that comes out in February.

leeharveyawesome · PostDec 10, 2023#81942023-12-10T23:21+00:00

You can fly from STL tomorrow to Milan with a stop in ATL for $525 round for those of you with flexibility and a sense of adventure.

GoHarvOrGoHome · PostDec 11, 2023#81952023-12-11T16:21+00:00

I will say I flew FRA in August and my outbound flight was very outdated. The entertainment system was barely functional and the armrest audio jacks were the old double jacks that aren't compatible with anything besides the crappy earpods they hand out. Plus, the wifi was out the entire flight.

Fortunately, I brought my iPad with the entire season of Band of Brothers on it and my nice noise cancelling headphones, so I was fine. The return voyage was a different plane that was up to modern standards.

On another note, we would probably get more foreign traffic on the route if Lufthansa could find a way to hook into Southwest's scheduling program. I know the Southwest system isn't really compatible with other airlines, but seems obvious to find a way to connect these FRA-STL with the myriad of Southwest destinations available in T2.

stl07 · PostDec 11, 2023#81962023-12-11T20:03+00:00

leeharveyawesome wrote: ↑
Dec 10, 2023
You can fly from STL tomorrow to Milan with a stop in ATL for $525 round for those of you with flexibility and a sense of adventure.

Haha It's winter! A flight to LA will probably cost around the same right now, and for good reason.

jshank83 · PostDec 11, 2023#81972023-12-11T23:15+00:00

Southwest increasing their March flight to West Palm beach from 2x a week to 5x.

People must be excited lance lynn is coming back.

PostDec 15, 2023#81982023-12-15T01:43+00:00

September International Loads
Southwest Cancun 94%
Lufthansa Frankfurt 87.5%
Frontier Cancun 82.5%
Southwest Montego Bay 81.5%
Air Canada - not listed

addxb2 · PostDec 15, 2023#81992023-12-15T02:15+00:00

^ how did STL do with the schedule extension by WN today?

jshank83 · PostDec 15, 2023#82002023-12-15T05:05+00:00

addxb2 wrote: ↑
Dec 15, 2023
^ how did STL do with the schedule extension by WN today?

Better than I thought it would be by flight count. Nothing new. All international drops off (which is normal) except Cancun stays daily.

Oakland and Sacramento get a 2nd flight on Sundays, which I didn’t expect.

Flights a day for August in years 2024 2023 and 2019

August 2024..2023.. 2019
Friday 124..108..118
Saturday 86..84..82
Sunday 128..108..120

Pretty quiet overall for Southwest. No pressure release or anything.

On a side note. Air Canada finally announced the Montreal-STL flight, which was loaded in the schedule 3 months ago.

https://media.aircanada.com/2023-12-14- ... ork-Growth

St. Louis Lambert Int. Airport [airline/hub/operations/info]

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