You can minimalize it all you want, but the market forces of downtown Chicago and downtown St. Louis are completely different.JaneJacobsGhost wrote: ↑Feb 21, 2023Woman was run down and killed in the south loop this afternoon. Chicago is doomed.
I'd say that downtown would benefit from better police presence and a revamped streetscape that would prevent drag racing downtown.addxb2 wrote: ↑Feb 21, 2023Turnstiles to enter downtown? You think I’m joking but maybe vehicle check points at every major arterial shouldn’t be off the table. Dusk to dawn, weekends only.
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Your doomsdaying from hundreds of miles away is such a tired act. As if the people who actually live here don’t understand the nature and gravity of the City’s problems. Or that “something needs to be done”. We are so truly grateful for your contributions.
Why why why is there a four way flashing red light at the intersection of Clark and 10th street? This is a disaster for pedestrians. These cagers are just blazing through this intersection. It was bad enough before with no walk signals, but this is worse. When exactly is the pedestrian's turn to cross with a flashing red? The answer is, apparently, never. Anyone know what is behind this decision?
I haven't been there for a couple weeks, but are you sure it's not just a broken light? There was one at 8th and Market that was broken and flashing red for more than a month earlier this winter.danke0 wrote: ↑Feb 21, 2023Why why why is there a four way flashing red light at the intersection of Clark and 10th street? This is a disaster for pedestrians. These cagers are just blazing through this intersection. It was bad enough before with no walk signals, but this is worse. When exactly is the pedestrian's turn to cross with a flashing red? The answer is, apparently, never. Anyone know what is behind this decision?
aha, yeah, I remember that one on Market. I didn't know there was a kind of failed state for these things where they flash red if they're broken. That would make more sense, rather than this being deliberate.
I'm almost at that point myself. Sometimes I envy the social order of Singapore.addxb2 wrote: ↑Feb 21, 2023Turnstiles to enter downtown? You think I’m joking but maybe vehicle check points at every major arterial shouldn’t be off the table. Dusk to dawn, weekends only.
Cutting down the amount of car infrastructure downtown would help too, there's no reason to even have major arterials running through it instead of around it. Pedestrianize more streets, route through-traffic around the core instead of through it, design so that cars are not the most efficient way to get around in a relatively small area, and we'd have a lot fewer of these problems without having to resort to turnstiles and checkpoints.
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Between downtown + west, in January there were 43 crimes against a person and 32 of those were what is mostly likely someone reporting a homeless person for being too aggressive (without physical contact)
Walking from the Arch to west of 14th is pretty infuriating, especially at rush hour._nomad_ wrote: ↑Feb 21, 2023Cutting down the amount of car infrastructure downtown would help too, there's no reason to even have major arterials running through it instead of around it. Pedestrianize more streets, route through-traffic around the core instead of through it, design so that cars are not the most efficient way to get around in a relatively small area, and we'd have a lot fewer of these problems without having to resort to turnstiles and checkpoints.
Why, oh why, do the big arterials need minutes-long green lights? If the lights permit you to get up to 50-60 mph, they're broken. Fix them. Time them for 30mph with short cycles. You speed, and you hit the red light two blocks up. It's not rocket science.
Instead I stand there for minutes at a time at each of those streets waiting.
It's the same trying to cross Washington. The cycles give traffic on Washington a minute-plus of green, then 10 seconds for the little north/south streets east of Tucker.
Both 4th and Broadway need road diets and/or two-way traffic.eee123 wrote: ↑Feb 21, 2023Walking from the Arch to west of 14th is pretty infuriating, especially at rush hour._nomad_ wrote: ↑Feb 21, 2023Cutting down the amount of car infrastructure downtown would help too, there's no reason to even have major arterials running through it instead of around it. Pedestrianize more streets, route through-traffic around the core instead of through it, design so that cars are not the most efficient way to get around in a relatively small area, and we'd have a lot fewer of these problems without having to resort to turnstiles and checkpoints.framer wrote: ↑Feb 21, 2023
I'm almost at that point myself. Sometimes I envy the social order of Singapore.
Why, oh why, do the big arterials need minutes-long green lights? If the lights permit you to get up to 50-60 mph, they're broken. Fix them. Time them for 30mph with short cycles. You speed, and you hit the red light two blocks up. It's not rocket science.
Instead I stand there for minutes at a time at each of those streets waiting.
It's the same trying to cross Washington. The cycles give traffic on Washington a minute-plus of green, then 10 seconds for the little north/south streets east of Tucker.
Tucker needs narrowing and ideally a large median/pedestrian refuge.
There is little reason that Washington couldn't be pedestrianized, especially west of the convention center. Every building in that stretch could get deliveries from Lucas or St Charles, garage entrances are already orientated towards those streets. Taking away the cars and allowing restaurants to put out patio seating would make such a pleasant improvement.
Fewer streets, fewer cars, better for people.
Whatever happened to that median landscaping project Tucker was supposed to get?
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Whatever happened to that median landscaping project Tucker was supposed to get?
Construction to start by end of year
Could someone share the details of this project? I cannot locate it via this thread Thank You
Construction to start by end of year
Could someone share the details of this project? I cannot locate it via this thread Thank You
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I had been out of town the last couple days…but literally nothing says St. Louis like people trying to justify some poor girl from suburban Tennessee losing her legs in a downtown St. Louis car crash as if it’s a totally normal thing. Those of us that don’t live downtown are doing our level best to keep innocent tourists out of that death trap neighborhood. No wonder the Chicago guys I had in Clayton two weeks ago loved STL! I didn’t take them downtown!
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^ ironically a guy from STL lost both legs in the same situation in Chicago last summer, he was there for a conference.
And who’s justifying anything? It’s a horrible situation that should have never happened. As I said in a thread on Twitter we don’t really care as a society about car deaths and injured, 9200 deaths in the state the last decade with over 50,000 injuries and we haven’t changed a thing, we just move on to the next day
The fear porn is what’s dumb, people go full stupid and think this is the norm, when the norm is that over the last 5 months over 200,000 people came to events at the dome and nothing happened to them.
And who’s justifying anything? It’s a horrible situation that should have never happened. As I said in a thread on Twitter we don’t really care as a society about car deaths and injured, 9200 deaths in the state the last decade with over 50,000 injuries and we haven’t changed a thing, we just move on to the next day
The fear porn is what’s dumb, people go full stupid and think this is the norm, when the norm is that over the last 5 months over 200,000 people came to events at the dome and nothing happened to them.
I don’t give a single, solitary fu*k about Chicago. But I do care about St. Louis. And for that reason, none of my out of town visitors will be seeing downtown. Many of you here play a role in that btw.
You can call it “fear porn” but when visitors are getting mowed down by cars on sidewalks and losing limbs and you downtown “boosters” have no answers? Sorry, I know where I stand.
Never mind the rampant red light running during business hours which is something my coworkers and I see DAILY. It’s a ***** shitshow down there. Better to stay away…especially listening to most users on this site who seemly spend more time downtown. Literally does not seem worth it based on what I read on UrbanSTL and in the local press. St. Louis has better places to take people.
You can call it “fear porn” but when visitors are getting mowed down by cars on sidewalks and losing limbs and you downtown “boosters” have no answers? Sorry, I know where I stand.
Never mind the rampant red light running during business hours which is something my coworkers and I see DAILY. It’s a ***** shitshow down there. Better to stay away…especially listening to most users on this site who seemly spend more time downtown. Literally does not seem worth it based on what I read on UrbanSTL and in the local press. St. Louis has better places to take people.
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There is no visitors or anyone getting mowed down on sidewalks, this was one crash that was unfortunate
Here is Jan 2023, 2022 and pre covid 2019 of car crashes that resulted in fatality (red) or injury (blue) in downtown. (No deaths in any year & also excluded are highway crashes) and all of these are car occupants
2019- 16 injuries
2022- 12
2023- 12
Even the tournament organizer said, these things unfortunately happen once a while
Here is Jan 2023, 2022 and pre covid 2019 of car crashes that resulted in fatality (red) or injury (blue) in downtown. (No deaths in any year & also excluded are highway crashes) and all of these are car occupants
2019- 16 injuries
2022- 12
2023- 12
Even the tournament organizer said, these things unfortunately happen once a while
^ Perception is reality to my visitors. Which is seemingly what has kept downtown STL 30 years behind everyone else.
The infrastructure, the crashes, the utter disregard for the the law…not all of that translates into the bullsh*t statistics you’re posting. Not every red light runner results in a car crash…not every speeding a**hole results in a decapitation or losing your fu*king legs. Doesn’t change the overall vibe of a sh*t neighborhood.
The infrastructure, the crashes, the utter disregard for the the law…not all of that translates into the bullsh*t statistics you’re posting. Not every red light runner results in a car crash…not every speeding a**hole results in a decapitation or losing your fu*king legs. Doesn’t change the overall vibe of a sh*t neighborhood.
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They aren’t bullsh*t statistics, it’s reality. Crashes resulting in injuring are correlated with light running, speeding ect. More of those you have the more crashes resulting in injuries.
Downtown population has grown 575.2% since 2000 and downtown west 132.1%.
Your small minded stupidity is boring, I have other dogs to walk right now
Downtown population has grown 575.2% since 2000 and downtown west 132.1%.
Your small minded stupidity is boring, I have other dogs to walk right now
If you want to discuss issues with downtown at least base them in reality. None of the city's top 10 most dangerous intersections are downtown, the data and maps provided above shows it's not an area prone to fatal crashes or even too many injuries. You're multiple times more likely to be harmed driving on 270 or any of the county's high speed stroads but you're coming on here to tell us it's a worse problem downtown? There's bad drivers everywhere and cars are a plague on many urban areas, a lot could be done to curb the ill effects of automobiles including in downtown, but to claim that downtown is somehow multitudes worse is just not grounded in any sort of reality.sc4mayor wrote: ↑Feb 22, 2023^ Perception is reality to my visitors. Which is seemingly what has kept downtown STL 30 years behind everyone else.
The infrastructure, the crashes, the utter disregard for the the law…not all of that translates into the bullsh*t statistics you’re posting. Not every red light runner results in a car crash…not every speeding a**hole results in a decapitation or losing your fu*king legs. Doesn’t change the overall vibe of a sh*t neighborhood.
I don't know what your agenda is, if calling a neighborhood that thousands of people happily call home "sh*t" somehow gives you pathetic satisfaction or if this is just some fevered hallucination that you're living in, but it's not productive and it comes off sounding like an unhinged rant.