urbanSTL

Also, let's please be real here about the reasons for Downtown's problems. It's not "perception." It's because numerous corporations moved their HQs or offices out of Downtown or got bought out by out of town corporations. If there were still several Fortune 500 HQs down there we wouldn't be having this discussion. 

sc4mayor wrote: ↑

Feb 22, 2023

I had been out of town the last couple days…but literally nothing says St. Louis like people trying to justify some poor girl from suburban Tennessee losing her legs in a downtown St. Louis car crash as if it’s a totally normal thing.  Those of us that don’t live downtown are doing our level best to keep innocent tourists out of that death trap neighborhood.  No wonder the Chicago guys I had in Clayton two weeks ago loved STL!  I didn’t take them downtown!

I didn’t realize “suburban” was a fact to be emphasized here. Almost as if you think that makes a life more valuable, but I’m sure that’s not what you meant….

Obviously the dated downtown infrastructure and streetscapes that allows Nascar style driving through downtown streets are a huge problem. The bigger issue is the utter failure of leadership in the St. Louis region that allows people like this to terrorize the city of St. Louis and increasingly the greater St. Louis region. 

The man charged with hitting her violated his bond 50 TIMES! and people say that people critical of St. Louis are just naysayers or disgruntled suburbanites? I'm originally from North St. Louis and have lived all over the St. Louis region. The majority of the people that leave St. Louis do it because of quality of life issues like horrible public safety, poor infrastructure, lack of access to services, etc. We can argue about stats all day and how arbitrary boundaries make St. Louis appear more dangerous, but the reality is that St. Louis is one of the most dangerous cities in America. All you have to do is travel around the country a bit and you'll see that St. Louis is far behind many cities in regards to having a clean, modern downtown. I was just in Texas last month, Austin and Houston are light years ahead of St. Louis in terms of cleanliness, amount of development, infrastructure, and vibrancy in their downtowns. It really wasn't even comparable. 

https://www.stltoday.com/news/local/cri ... 4a2bd.html

Houston?
Guess you did not see the plethora of homeless under the viaducts
And its the dirtiest city in the USA
https://www.lawnstarter.com/blog/studies/dirtiest-cities-in-united-states/

mikenewell48 wrote: ↑

Feb 22, 2023

Houston?
Guess you did not see the plethora of homeless under the viaducts
And its the dirtiest city in the USA
https://www.lawnstarter.com/blog/studies/dirtiest-cities-in-united-states/

Any list that says that New Orleans, Philadelphia, and Los Angeles are cleaner than any city in Texas automatically loses legitimacy. I was literally in New Orleans a few days before I went to Houston and I would say New Orleans may be the most filthiest city in America (neck and neck with Philadelphia). It's actually amazing how clean and orderly Texas' major cities are, especially in their downtown areas. If I were a Fortune500 CEO that had a choice between downtown St. Louis and any major Texas downtown, it wouldn't even be a competition. The proof is in the pudding, Texas is not booming for no reason. It's a well run state and their cities are light years ahead of St. Louis in terms of development and business attraction. 

99% of these speeding and drag racing issues could be solved with a plethora of speedbumps and raised crosswalks in downtown. How this hasn't been proposed as a solution is beyond me.

GoHarvOrGoHome wrote:99% of these speeding and drag racing issues could be solved with a plethora of speedbumps and raised crosswalks in downtown. How this hasn't been proposed as a solution is beyond me.

I’ve had this discussion with some engineers. Most of them assume cost and adjusting the storm water flows would be the big issue. I’d imagine that is why the 7th street project got value engineered so heavily from the initial renderings.

Otherwise I 100% agree curb bump outs, raised intersections or crosswalks, mid block bump outs and bump outs at every drive apron would do wonders in slowing traffic.

Downtown has its problems, but I firmly believe that it is going to be on a meteoric rise between now and 2030. 

I love your optimism. I don’t share it; but it’s admirable.

Downtown proper has and probably will continue to struggle. The office apocalypse, crime/reputation of crime, and outdated infrastructure all create significant headwinds. Many things point to a much brighter future downtown though, which I believe will help the area succeed despite those headwinds. 

One of downtown's biggest weaknesses is its isolation from surrounding neighborhoods. The next decade will see this weakness addressed in a major way in the form of major investments into the surrounding neighborhoods.

• Gateway South + 4th Street corridor + northern Soulard/Kosciusko developments 
• Laclede's Landing redevelopment already in full swing
• Innovation corridor north of Wash Ave 
• Downtown west/midtown development explosion
• Brickline Greenway + Tucker grade separated bike lane

That's not even to speak of the impact we will see from a reactivated Jefferson Arms, Chemical, and AT&T plus BPV and whatever other development is in the pipeline right now. Fingers crossed we can get the RX building done too, IMO that is the keystone building to vibrancy in downtown proper.

^ Downtown has plenty of reasons for optimism. 

Like I said, the neighborhood has its problems, but I see a path forward.

Judging from the trend, I am skeptical of a meteoric rise. Sure maybe the investment numbers look good, but as someone who goes to the office downtown every day the fact is that there are much less incentives to leave my office during the day than there were five years ago. Restaurants were obliterated by covid and did not recover, especially lower cost options, and there is basically no interesting retail for non-tourists.

GoHarvOrGoHome wrote: ↑

Feb 22, 2023

99% of these speeding and drag racing issues could be solved with a plethora of speedbumps and raised crosswalks in downtown. How this hasn't been proposed as a solution is beyond me.

Or.. or, hear me out.. implement the plan that was already drafted 5 years ago.  What's the point in making plans if we're not going to implement? Especially if we have budget surpluses and other recent financial wins for the city and region?

Olive just had a monster opportunity at a narrowing before they repaved a swath of it for the MLS stadium.  Where's Ogilvie?

There are some tiny wins, but at some point you see there are too many priorities and too many apathetic bystanders.

The filthiness of New Orleans is part of it's charm. It's a sinking dead weird place. It doesn't work so well in St. Louis. Any sort of New York City 1970s grimy fascinations needs to be eliminated as well. That thinking is as dead as fried chicken. Clean it up.

Actually, the only reason I'm in St. Louis is because of Katrina. Had an apartment picked out in a totally filthy area of Nola but then a week later Katrina. Change of plans.....

goat314 wrote: ↑

Feb 22, 2023

The bigger issue is the utter failure of leadership in the St. Louis region that allows people like this to terrorize the city of St. Louis and increasingly the greater St. Louis region. 

This sums it all up for me. St. Louis simply doesn't have any leaders. Those that try to fill that role are hampered by a fear of the woke crowd. They walk around on tiptoes, carefully avoiding all the elephants rampaging through our rooms. 

framer wrote: ↑

Feb 22, 2023

goat314 wrote: ↑

Feb 22, 2023

The bigger issue is the utter failure of leadership in the St. Louis region that allows people like this to terrorize the city of St. Louis and increasingly the greater St. Louis region. 

This sums it all up for me. St. Louis simply doesn't have any leaders. Those that try to fill that role are hampered by a fear of the woke crowd. They walk around on tiptoes, carefully avoiding all the elephants rampaging through our rooms. 

Um Slay/Krewson were from the opposite end of the political spectrum and ruled the city for 20 years. How'd that go?

Jfc here comes the “woke” stupidity.

Everyone is redeemable and it's very often a beautiful story. Sometimes learned the hard way. Sorry, Western society has standards and laws.

framer wrote: ↑

Feb 22, 2023

goat314 wrote: ↑

Feb 22, 2023

The bigger issue is the utter failure of leadership in the St. Louis region that allows people like this to terrorize the city of St. Louis and increasingly the greater St. Louis region. 

This sums it all up for me. St. Louis simply doesn't have any leaders. Those that try to fill that role are hampered by a fear of the woke crowd. They walk around on tiptoes, carefully avoiding all the elephants rampaging through our rooms. 

Friendly reminder that crime is generally down since the woke libtards took over.

The strongest, most capable and charismatic "leader" will still be extremely limited by local and regional government structures, with our without woke libtard elephants stomping on their non-gendered sexual appendages.

St. Louis is too fragmented as a region for a single leader to make much of a difference. Even if both city Mayor and the StL County Executive were equally exceptional as leaders, and had the exact same ideological perspective and material interests, they would still have to deal with the limits of their offices which are significant.

Nobody is coming to save us, but we can save ourselves by excising the worst of the current leadership, who is obviously the CA. 

and Texas? To visit there is one thing to live there is another Quoted: When I moved to Texas in 1991 it was a wonderful place with a high quality of life. You never saw a homeless person because rents and real estate were so cheap. I bought a house in 1994 for $30k and people in California refused to believe that this was possible.

In the years since then, the state has gone completely downhill. Property taxes and insurance have skyrocketed. Violent crime is a constant problem even in good neighborhoods. There are homeless people everywhere. The utility grid is dysfunctional and unreliable. Public education at all levels is among the worst in the country. Traffic is in a constant state of gridlock because the infrastructure has not kept up with population growth.

Texas has become a dystopian nightmare - a collapsed state with a population seething with religious, racial and ethnic hatreds. You better pack a piece because everyone is carrying and they are ready to use it at the slightest provocation.

Judging from the trend, I am skeptical of a meteoric rise. Sure maybe the investment numbers look good, but as someone who goes to the office downtown every day the fact is that there are much less incentives to leave my office during the day than there were five years ago. Restaurants were obliterated by covid and did not recover, especially lower cost options, and there is basically no interesting retail for non-tourists.

Exact same experience here.   The BreadCo. closing on 6th & Pine was a bad sign....  So few (nearby) places are left.

spreadsheetwizard wrote: ↑

Feb 23, 2023

Judging from the trend, I am skeptical of a meteoric rise. Sure maybe the investment numbers look good, but as someone who goes to the office downtown every day the fact is that there are much less incentives to leave my office during the day than there were five years ago. Restaurants were obliterated by covid and did not recover, especially lower cost options, and there is basically no interesting retail for non-tourists.

Exact same experience here.   The BreadCo. closing on 6th & Pine was a bad sign....  So few (nearby) places are left.

They closed because they were going to a drive thru modal spurred by covid, which I think they’ve gone back on now.

Other data about downtown has been positive; the arch saw 42% increase in visitors in 2022 over 2021 and will get back over 2,000,000 in 2023, January of this year was first 50,000 visitor January in a while and +27% from Jan 2022.

Crimes against persons are down this Jan vs last Jan.