Not well versed in these things but for what it's worth I already saw one of the new articulated electric busses being towed a few weeks ago.PeterXCV wrote: ↑Nov 18, 2021^Yes it does actually cost less to maintain trains than buses in terms of the rolling stock (though maybe electric buses will improve on this). The benefit of buses is of course that they can easily take an alternate route in case of a closed road which trains can't.
Well let's get rid of them and get back to rollin' coal!flipz wrote: ↑Nov 18, 2021Not well versed in these things but for what it's worth I already saw one of the new articulated electric busses being towed a few weeks ago.PeterXCV wrote: ↑Nov 18, 2021^Yes it does actually cost less to maintain trains than buses in terms of the rolling stock (though maybe electric buses will improve on this). The benefit of buses is of course that they can easily take an alternate route in case of a closed road which trains can't.
The vehicles themselves may be cheaper to maintain, but there's no way the system is, is there?
BRT is just a road with little bumps separating bus lanes from car lanes and platforms. The MetroLink has all these underground sections, raised sections, bridges, catenary wiring. How can that possibly be cheaper to maintain? Just take some of our extra road capacity and give it to buses.
The ability to change routes isn't really a benefit of BRT, is it?
I've not ridden BRT enough to deal with reroutes (only in Mexico City), but I assumed due to the high-platform boarding system, there wouldn't be reroutes insofar as adding stops, maybe just skipped stops to avoid a certain segment of road. Do they build temporary boarding platforms, or how would BRT reroutes work?
BRT is just a road with little bumps separating bus lanes from car lanes and platforms. The MetroLink has all these underground sections, raised sections, bridges, catenary wiring. How can that possibly be cheaper to maintain? Just take some of our extra road capacity and give it to buses.
The ability to change routes isn't really a benefit of BRT, is it?
I've not ridden BRT enough to deal with reroutes (only in Mexico City), but I assumed due to the high-platform boarding system, there wouldn't be reroutes insofar as adding stops, maybe just skipped stops to avoid a certain segment of road. Do they build temporary boarding platforms, or how would BRT reroutes work?
okdweebe wrote: ↑Nov 18, 2021Well let's get rid of them and get back to rollin' coal!flipz wrote: ↑Nov 18, 2021Not well versed in these things but for what it's worth I already saw one of the new articulated electric busses being towed a few weeks ago.PeterXCV wrote: ↑Nov 18, 2021^Yes it does actually cost less to maintain trains than buses in terms of the rolling stock (though maybe electric buses will improve on this). The benefit of buses is of course that they can easily take an alternate route in case of a closed road which trains can't.
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I think roads are more expensive to maintain than steel rail? Cheaper to build up-front though.eee123 wrote: ↑Nov 18, 2021The vehicles themselves may be cheaper to maintain, but there's no way the system is, is there?
BRT is just a road with little bumps separating bus lanes from car lanes and platforms. The MetroLink has all these underground sections, raised sections, bridges, catenary wiring. How can that possibly be cheaper to maintain? Just take some of our extra road capacity and give it to buses.
You're not just maintaining steel rail. You're maintaining all these raised sections, tunnels, all the wiring along the entirety of the track, tunnels. Metro is kind of opaque with their closure reasons, but this evening through the weekend they're single-tracking at Civic Center and Union Station for some (I assume) maintenance reason. It's constant maintenance that's degrading evening and weekend service and it can't be cheaper than maintaining a road.
The road maintenance, is it even that much of an added cost since we're already "maintaining" roads?
The road maintenance, is it even that much of an added cost since we're already "maintaining" roads?
Going back to my previous comment…. Rail tunnel at the frequency and capacity of MetroLink is not cheaper than bus. Rail run at high frequencies is cheaper. This is a distinction that I think is being lost.
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The latest NS study had the line run on street down 9th street through downtown without overhead wires and instead it the rail cars would move through downtown on battery packs
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How is the $36 billion in the BBB dedicated to public transit going to be able to move the Southside MetroLink line forward in tandem with the funding from the infrastructure bill being used to build a Northside Line?
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As far as I am concerned, Blue Line past downtown Clayton was a mistake. A lot of money was wasted to build stations surrounded by parking lots.PeterXCV wrote: ↑Nov 18, 2021^It's very frustrating. And Metro has almost no interest in doing so. Like how they closed one of the entrances to the Delmar Loop station, as if that has made the local news freakout about Metrolink safety go away. Only made it harder for riders as far as I'm concerned.
South City fast/frequent service should happen. I have been playing around with a routing that connects the Shrewsbury Metrolink Station to Busch Stadium
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I was doing something similar in my head the past few weeks. I was imagining it running south closer to I55 and then up along River Des Peres and connecting that way - but man, it’d be nice to have both now that I’m seeing this.
Presentations hosted by Citizens for Modern Transit this morning (available HERE) included some value engineering of the above details for the MidAmerica expansion listed above:sc4mayor wrote: ↑Jul 14, 2021MetroLink Extension To MidAmerica Airport Expected To Be Finished By 2024
https://news.stlpublicradio.org/economy ... ed-by-2024The extension is currently in the middle of its design phase, Sharkey said. It will include approximately three miles of double-track section and 2.5 miles of single-track trails. Along with the extension will be a bike trail from the Shiloh-Scott Station to MidAmerica that will follow the line.
The design phase is expected to finalize in August of 2022. Construction will begin at around the same time and will last until November 2024. Sharkey said passengers most likely will be riding the new rail by December 2024.
Sharkey said the total cost of the project can’t be determined while it remains in its design phase and because of the current market for construction materials being so “volatile.
- 2.5 miles of single-track is now 2.6 miles of single-track
- "Along with the extension will be a bike trail" is now "Pending available funds, the project could also include the extension of a bike trail"
- "A MetroLink expansion to MidAmerica St. Louis Airport is expected to be finished by 2024" is now "Construction is expected to be complete in Spring 2025"
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Controversial as they may be, do the new "secured" stations do anything to move the needle for West County and St. Charles residents in wanting Metrolink?
Unfortunately, my gut tells me no. I sense a larger appetite for Metrolink in West County than in St. Charles, but I'm not sure when we'll see a line that goes out to Chesterfield.
In quite a few of the articles for reconfiguration of the north-south Metrolink expansion, they show a potential Phase II where Metrolink follows Natural Bridge until near city limits and then climbs its way up to W. Florissant as it goes out into the county for "West County expansion." Don't they mean North County?
I don't understand what kind of path they would be taking from W. Florissant to end up in what I consider to be West County -- Maryland Heights, Creve Coeur, Chesterfield, etc. I actually see using a northbound W. Florissant Metrolink line as an opportunity to reach the cities of Ferguson and Florissant.
Unfortunately, my gut tells me no. I sense a larger appetite for Metrolink in West County than in St. Charles, but I'm not sure when we'll see a line that goes out to Chesterfield.
In quite a few of the articles for reconfiguration of the north-south Metrolink expansion, they show a potential Phase II where Metrolink follows Natural Bridge until near city limits and then climbs its way up to W. Florissant as it goes out into the county for "West County expansion." Don't they mean North County?
I don't understand what kind of path they would be taking from W. Florissant to end up in what I consider to be West County -- Maryland Heights, Creve Coeur, Chesterfield, etc. I actually see using a northbound W. Florissant Metrolink line as an opportunity to reach the cities of Ferguson and Florissant.
Lmao of course not, their opposition to metrolink servicing their communities has nothing to do with turnstiles.
Where did you see a Natural Bridge to West County expansion? I've never seen that one before. I always assumed that the Westport extension off the Blue Line would be the West County route. The St. Charles extension always went down I-70 across the river. I personally would like to see both Westport and St. Charles extensions, but unfortunately I think we are a generation or more away from that reality. I think the next extension in the county will open about 10-20 years from now and follow W. Florissant up into Ferguson as a phase 2 the city extension. I honestly would like to the city and county do this extension all at once, the city Jefferson N-S line is good, but I think getting into the inner ring suburbs of North County would be a game changer for that part of the region. There are a lot of transit-dependent people in that part of the county and those areas could definitely benefit from redevelopment.RockChalkSTL wrote: ↑Jul 06, 2022Controversial as they may be, do the new "secured" stations do anything to move the needle for West County and St. Charles residents in wanting Metrolink?
Unfortunately, my gut tells me no. I sense a larger appetite for Metrolink in West County than in St. Charles, but I'm not sure when we'll see a line that goes out to Chesterfield.
In quite a few of the articles for reconfiguration of the north-south Metrolink expansion, they show a potential Phase II where Metrolink follows Natural Bridge until near city limits and then climbs its way up to W. Florissant as it goes out into the county for "West County expansion." Don't they mean North County?
I don't understand what kind of path they would be taking from W. Florissant to end up in what I consider to be West County -- Maryland Heights, Creve Coeur, Chesterfield, etc. I actually see using a northbound W. Florissant Metrolink line as an opportunity to reach the cities of Ferguson and Florissant.
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^^I think my first question has an obvious answer, and that's that St. Charles won't change their minds about Metrolink anytime soon, which is really unfortunate considering how badly they want say they to become an entertainment and vacation destination for not just St. Louis and Missouri, but for the country.
Somehow, they don't think a transit line connecting them to the airport -- in a few years, to two airports -- will help them in their mission.
Somehow, they don't think a transit line connecting them to the airport -- in a few years, to two airports -- will help them in their mission.
"A phase two plan would expand the line down Natural Bridge and into West County."goat314 wrote: ↑Jul 06, 2022Where did you see a Natural Bridge to West County expansion? I've never seen that one before. I always assumed that the Westport extension off the Blue Line would be the West County route. The St. Charles extension always went down I-70 across the river. I personally would like to see both Westport and St. Charles extensions, but unfortunately I think we are a generation or more away from that reality. I think the next extension in the county will open about 10-20 years from now and follow W. Florissant up into Ferguson as a phase 2 the city extension. I honestly would like to the city and county do this extension all at once, the city Jefferson N-S line is good, but I think getting into the inner ring suburbs of North County would be a game changer for that part of the region. There are a lot of transit-dependent people in that part of the county and those areas could definitely benefit from redevelopment.RockChalkSTL wrote: ↑Jul 06, 2022Controversial as they may be, do the new "secured" stations do anything to move the needle for West County and St. Charles residents in wanting Metrolink?
Unfortunately, my gut tells me no. I sense a larger appetite for Metrolink in West County than in St. Charles, but I'm not sure when we'll see a line that goes out to Chesterfield.
In quite a few of the articles for reconfiguration of the north-south Metrolink expansion, they show a potential Phase II where Metrolink follows Natural Bridge until near city limits and then climbs its way up to W. Florissant as it goes out into the county for "West County expansion." Don't they mean North County?
I don't understand what kind of path they would be taking from W. Florissant to end up in what I consider to be West County -- Maryland Heights, Creve Coeur, Chesterfield, etc. I actually see using a northbound W. Florissant Metrolink line as an opportunity to reach the cities of Ferguson and Florissant.
https://www.kmov.com/2022/06/10/metroli ... proposals/
I've seen several articles with this phrasing and I just don't understand how they can possibly mean West County.
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One would have to assume that this definition of "West County" is Hazelwood/Maryland Heights, and not the 64 corridor communities.
My guess is that's an editing mistake, maybe the County sent something out with a typo. Some very early Metrolink expansion plans (late 90s early 2000s) proposed a "Northwest Connector" which would have followed the rail ROW off of Natural Bridge west out toward WestPort to connect with the West County line. I don't think it was ever closely studied, and I would be quite surprised if that's the County's present Metrolink priority.
I wonder what they consider "West County", but maybe they are changing the plans a bit. Could we be seeing a different route in the county? I know years ago the county was gung-ho on the Westport line, but then Ferguson happened and the focus became about North County. With the recent developments at Danforth Plant Science and Westport maybe the plan is still to head out West, but through North City? A line I did find interesting is “I could use it to get directly to Downtown, to the Central West End, to the airport,” said Michael Powers, who lives in South City. The last proposal would not allow somebody to get directly to the airport from South City, the would have to transfer at a protentional Jefferson Transfer Station and get on the Red Line. What if a new line went up Natural Bridge, North on Goodfellow, and then branched off to I-70 West to the Airport instead of going up West Florissant to Ferguson? That would make more logical sense for people looking to get from South City or NGA to the Airport directly. It could also potentially have a branch off on the rail ROW at Natural Bridge and head directly to Westport. The County could save a lot of money and potential knock out two birds with one stone with a branched line strategy. I know it's just fantasy and the goal could be to get up to Ferguson still, but who knows what the political or financial strategies the County will implement to deliver Metrolink expansion equitably. One thing is for certain, Metrolink expansion has always been very political for better or worse.RockChalkSTL wrote: ↑Jul 06, 2022"A phase two plan would expand the line down Natural Bridge and into West County."goat314 wrote: ↑Jul 06, 2022Where did you see a Natural Bridge to West County expansion? I've never seen that one before. I always assumed that the Westport extension off the Blue Line would be the West County route. The St. Charles extension always went down I-70 across the river. I personally would like to see both Westport and St. Charles extensions, but unfortunately I think we are a generation or more away from that reality. I think the next extension in the county will open about 10-20 years from now and follow W. Florissant up into Ferguson as a phase 2 the city extension. I honestly would like to the city and county do this extension all at once, the city Jefferson N-S line is good, but I think getting into the inner ring suburbs of North County would be a game changer for that part of the region. There are a lot of transit-dependent people in that part of the county and those areas could definitely benefit from redevelopment.RockChalkSTL wrote: ↑Jul 06, 2022Controversial as they may be, do the new "secured" stations do anything to move the needle for West County and St. Charles residents in wanting Metrolink?
Unfortunately, my gut tells me no. I sense a larger appetite for Metrolink in West County than in St. Charles, but I'm not sure when we'll see a line that goes out to Chesterfield.
In quite a few of the articles for reconfiguration of the north-south Metrolink expansion, they show a potential Phase II where Metrolink follows Natural Bridge until near city limits and then climbs its way up to W. Florissant as it goes out into the county for "West County expansion." Don't they mean North County?
I don't understand what kind of path they would be taking from W. Florissant to end up in what I consider to be West County -- Maryland Heights, Creve Coeur, Chesterfield, etc. I actually see using a northbound W. Florissant Metrolink line as an opportunity to reach the cities of Ferguson and Florissant.
https://www.kmov.com/2022/06/10/metroli ... proposals/
I've seen several articles with this phrasing and I just don't understand how they can possibly mean West County.
I think ya’ll are giving KMOV too much credit. West County was clearly a typo. The map included in that article shows potential alignments reaching West Florissant Avenue and St. Louis County has been very clear they have no plans for expansion outside of North County for the time being. You’re seeing it on multiple articles because they all source the same sh*t from each other.
We haven’t even selected an LPA yet. Some of you are putting the cart before the horse here a bit.
We haven’t even selected an LPA yet. Some of you are putting the cart before the horse here a bit.
This is kind of what I was thinking when I heard it. Orange line out to Westport using the Rail ROW.
Green line that goes to the Airport using I-70 and existing Red line ROW.
Possible Purple line spur that goes up to Downtown Ferguson using Ted Jones Trail ROW.
In the County I just can't see street running LRT being implemented. I see the County using existing ROWs for the sake of cost, politics, and logistics.
Awww come on man, I love to fantasize.sc4mayor wrote: ↑Jul 06, 2022I think ya’ll are giving KMOV too much credit. West County was clearly a typo. The map included in that article shows potential alignments reaching West Florissant Avenue and St. Louis County has been very clear they have no plans for expansion outside of North County for the time being. You’re seeing it on multiple articles because they all source the same sh*t from each other.
We haven’t even selected an LPA yet. Some of you are putting the cart before the horse here a bit.
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