sc4mayor
sc4mayor

PostApr 25, 2022#1101

Here are some webcam shots as of today.


Seats are looking nice:


Always enjoyed this view with the numerous smokestacks, church steeples and brick homes in the background:



6,123
Life MemberLife Member
6,123

PostApr 25, 2022#1102

dweebe wrote:
Apr 25, 2022
So where does this land us on the question regarding
1) evilness of the Taylor family and their supposed hand in the destruction of Mill Valley?
2) do we boycott the St. Louis MLS team because Carolyn Kindle Betz is the beneficiary of multi-generational wealth?
I don't think they're evil, just rich. I think you can make the argument that they benefit from a system that isn't terribly fair, but that doesn't say anything about them directly. It's a hate the war, not the soldier kind of problem.

And no, we don't boycott the MLS team. Wouldn't hurt anyone but ourselves. I'm not going to deny myself the pleasure of entertainment just because rich people contributed to the creation of that entertainment, or benefit from its popularity, either directly or indirectly. I still enjoy it and want it. (Heck, I accept rich people money for the entertainment I myself produce. Gladly. I don't even suggest they should lose their money. The rich people I've known have mostly been decent, hard working sorts. I just think we should fix the system so more decent, hard working poor people have a good shot at making a comfortable living.)

But all of this is off topic. Back to sportball! Go SC-St. Louis!

5,705
Life MemberLife Member
5,705

PostApr 25, 2022#1103

sc4mayor wrote:
Apr 25, 2022
Here are some webcam shots as of today.


Seats are looking nice:

Always enjoyed this view with the numerous smokestacks, church steeples and brick homes in the background:

Only going to get better when LHM finally builds out the parking lot.  Maybe wishful thinking but at some point, at some time they must see greater value in their property.  

9,566
Life MemberLife Member
9,566

PostApr 25, 2022#1104

^ they will repave the lot later this summer but thats it for near term plans, may see them plop down a 2-3 story garage on it to maximize parking revenue 

2,056
Life MemberLife Member
2,056

PostApr 25, 2022#1105

I am very curious/excited to see how the vibe of Downtown West changes once all of the landscaping/finishing touches go in... especially from the I64 view north. 

PostApr 25, 2022#1106

👀

2,929
Life MemberLife Member
2,929

PostApr 25, 2022#1107

Bart Harley Jarvis wrote:
Apr 25, 2022
dweebe wrote:
Apr 25, 2022
symphonicpoet wrote:
Apr 25, 2022
^His dad owned a Cadillac dealership. He was not a member of the working class, or even really the middle class. And while Wash. U. wasn't perhaps the institution it is today it was still the elite school in the state at a time when that meant more. Tuition alone isn't necessarily the best indicator of much. The movers and shakers in St. Louis mostly came out of Wash. U. even then. Just having a college education at the time set you on a path to success. And an education from a locally elite private school? That's where Missouri senators and St. Louis CEOs studied. And while the place wasn't Harvard . . . it still isn't.

Further, the fighter pilot thing is itself a class indicator. USN fighter pilots were, by and in large, from the upper, or at least upwardly mobile class. Before the war most came out of Annapolis. Prewar I believe there was precisely one squadron of enlisted pilots out of several dozen squadrons. Once wartime expansion really kicked in you started to see more ROTC "90 day wonders" joining the ranks, but the naval aviators were an elite in more ways than one.

Anyway, none of this is a knock on Taylor. But he didn't come out of nowhere. He had some significant advantages. Much like nearly everyone in that economic class. The myth of the self-made man is just that: a myth.
So where does this land us on the question regarding
1) evilness of the Taylor family and their supposed hand in the destruction of Mill Valley?
2) do we boycott the St. Louis MLS team because Carolyn Kindle Betz is the beneficiary of multi-generational wealth?
Man, it sucks those are the only two options
Wow y'all, I expected far more from this forum than this...

[rant] 
Pigeonholing multiple generations of a great STL family to fit a narrative that wealthy people must be "evil" is intellectually self-defeating. It does not take into any consideration nuance or context, and seriously this is just stereotyping. I know this family, and I can absolutely say that they are good people. Further, while they are wealthy, they are not beholden to their wealth and do not live in self-worshipping opulence. The first time I met Andy Taylor, he was drinking keg beer from a plastic cup while eating a hot dog in his daughter's truly modest back yard. He had no pretense for ego or thinking of himself as some kind of big deal. I know Carolyn and am glad to say that she is a friend; she is absolutely not deserving of any slander, here or elsewhere, and especially by people who do not know her as anything other than a face on TV. The Taylor Family has tangibly done far more for STL than everyone on this forum put together. Hell, if they really were "evil", they would have moved the HQ to Los Angeles, the driving capital of the world, and taken the company public at a very high premium while simultaneously retiring from the business. They'd have done this years ago. That's just not how they are. Meanwhile, in the public forum, it's now almost as if anyone successful in America who is not literally Horatio Alger is automatically damned by some public opinions that they must be inherently wicked. Such thought is not only dishonest but both embarrassing and inherently dangerous. How's this for your uber-PC narrative: you are inclined to damn the only professional sports franchise in the US that is majority owned by women as something to boycott because they were not born poor. Sarcasm or not, this doesn't belong here. The audacity of such thought is really surprising as well as disappointing. Y'all need to check your heads.
[/rant]

Back on topic: 
Props to @dbInSouthCity and @sc4mayor for those pics. This really is coming together better than the original renderings. 

488
Full MemberFull Member
488

PostApr 25, 2022#1108

I thought dweebe was being sarcastic - because both suggestions were truly caricatures.

Hopefully he was. 

1,610
Totally AddictedTotally Addicted
1,610

PostApr 25, 2022#1109

Not sure why I got tagged here?

6,123
Life MemberLife Member
6,123

PostApr 25, 2022#1110

^Who knows. Because you responded? Maybe we all need to sit down with a beer and talk. I'm not sure we really disagree about anything at all. I figure we all want to see a game. I figure we're all honestly glad the Taylors are supporting the team. Not quite sure where the disagreement lies.

And yes, props to all for the pics. :)

947
Super MemberSuper Member
947

PostApr 26, 2022#1111

symphonicpoet wrote:
Apr 25, 2022
And while the place wasn't Harvard . . . it still isn't.
I never said Wash. U. was Harvard in 1940 or is Harvard today.

But Harvard has pretty much always been Harvard. It has been widely considered the most prestigious university in this nation since before the American Civil War.

Washington University in St. Louis was not one of the top 20 schools in the country in 1940, and maybe not even one of the top 100 at that time. It certainly wasn't attracting students from throughout the nation and the world to the extent that it does today. Its tremendous national prestige didn't really come about until the William Danforth era, which was many, many years after Taylor was a student there.

While it's probably fair to assume that Jack Taylor came from an upper middle class background, I don't see any evidence that he came from an obscenely wealthy family. It's extremely doubtful that the Taylors were in the same social circles as the Danforth and Busch families in the 1940s and 50s. The whole implication of Ebsy's initial post that I was replying to was that the Taylors were an extremely influential family that had significant political sway over civic affairs in this city in 1954 when Mill Creek Valley was cleared, and there's absolutely no evidence to back that claim up whatsoever. They are quite obviously members of the city elite today, and they have been for a few decades now, but that didn't really happen until Enterprise took off as a major national player in the rental car market in the 1980s.

1,610
Totally AddictedTotally Addicted
1,610

PostApr 26, 2022#1112

mjbais1489 wrote:
Apr 25, 2022
I thought dweebe was being sarcastic - because both suggestions were truly caricatures.

Hopefully he was. 
I missed it if he/she was.  Apologies, if so.

7,810
Life MemberLife Member
7,810

PostApr 26, 2022#1113

Bart Harley Jarvis wrote:
Apr 26, 2022
mjbais1489 wrote:
Apr 25, 2022
I thought dweebe was being sarcastic - because both suggestions were truly caricatures.

Hopefully he was. 
I missed it if he/she was.  Apologies, if so.
Yes I was being sarcastic. Sorry I forgot the /s or /sarcasm tag at the end.

PostMay 02, 2022#1114

Sounds like Nashville's stadium opening went well. They are REALLY hammering the "biggest stadium in the MLS" home.

-Their stadium has all the concessions on the outside ring and the concourse is open to the field. St. Louis looks to have them on the inside
-Some grumbling about entry as one side is boxes/club seats and loading docks on another. 
-They're working through the parking and access challenges: but it wasn't a disaster. Nearby residents are happy. One guy parked 14 cars on his lawn and charged $80.


9,566
Life MemberLife Member
9,566

PostMay 02, 2022#1115

Honestly looks like a knock off version of ours

3,968
Life MemberLife Member
3,968

PostMay 02, 2022#1116

dbInSouthCity wrote:
May 02, 2022
Honestly looks like a knock off version of ours
Or are we a knockoff version of theirs?

But more seriously I feel like a lot of the stadiums look pretty much the same.

sc4mayor
sc4mayor

PostMay 02, 2022#1117

^ I was gonna say...it looks like a soccer stadium.

...or an aircraft hanger.


I think Centene having its field below street level and the stadium surrounded by downtown buildings and high-rises will provide a more intimate setting than this though.

3,548
Life MemberLife Member
3,548

PostMay 02, 2022#1118

Nashville's stadium is not very crowded. Nice clean stadium though. 

9,566
Life MemberLife Member
9,566

PostMay 02, 2022#1119

jshank83 wrote:
May 02, 2022
dbInSouthCity wrote:
May 02, 2022
Honestly looks like a knock off version of ours
Or are we a knockoff version of theirs?

But more seriously I feel like a lot of the stadiums look pretty much the same.
Knockoff usually means worse, i mean look at the roof on theirs and ours. 

7,810
Life MemberLife Member
7,810

PostMay 02, 2022#1120

sc4mayor wrote:
May 02, 2022
^ I was gonna say...it looks like a soccer stadium.

...or an aircraft hanger.
I think Centene having its field below street level and the stadium surrounded by downtown buildings and high-rises will provide a more intimate setting than this though.
That's what I was wondering. Yeah, Nashville's stadium is bigger and they'll remind you a dozen times of that: but does that make for a better fan experience?



Somewhat similar situation to the United Center in Chicago. BIG building that seats 22,000: but if you've been to an event there and sat in the upper deck, you'll agree that doesn't make going there better.

5,261
Life MemberLife Member
5,261

PostMay 02, 2022#1121

Doesn't look very solid.

405
Full MemberFull Member
405

PostMay 02, 2022#1122

^^ No new garage?  Pathetic.

7,810
Life MemberLife Member
7,810

PostMay 02, 2022#1123

EssTeeEll wrote:
May 02, 2022
^^ No new garage?  Pathetic.
Wait for it.

535
Senior MemberSenior Member
535

PostMay 02, 2022#1124

Wow, the Nashville stadium 10-20 years ago would've been amazing. But given the current state of US soccer.......they plain ***** it up. They took a classic, tried and true, stadium design and screwed the pooch.

Why is there so much space between the upper seating and roof? Soooooo much space?!? And seating seems really gently sloped.

Look around the world, the move forever has been to trap as much sound in. To bring fans as close to the pitch as possible. 

STL stadium x10000 >>>> NSH

And that's before we talk about the surrounding neighborhoods.

7,810
Life MemberLife Member
7,810

PostMay 02, 2022#1125

RuskiSTL wrote:
May 02, 2022
Why is there so much space between the upper seating and roof? Soooooo much space?!? And seating seems really gently sloped.
I though maybe air flow: but the stadium is on a hilltop so that's not an issue.

Space to add more rows a a standing area and make it an even bigger stadium?

Wikipedia says Nashville's stadium was a Populous design and ours is HOK: isn't that the same thing?

Read more posts (716 remaining)