The State of Downtown

TheWayoftheArch_V2.0 · PostMar 14, 2022#39262022-03-14T23:53+00:00

^Didn't you know development is just a dice game?

^^^But seriously, KDG was throwing 300 mil at Iron Hill pre-pandemic. Because it had office and significant retail components they balked. I know people there. They aren't scared of the city. The McGowans are all fat and happy in Ladue. Their run is done. They aren't doing anything anywhere else to my knowledge. Loftworks went bankrupt in 2016 and doesn't even have a website, so probably good they aren't doing anything...

matguy70 · PostMar 15, 2022#39272022-03-15T01:13+00:00

Office Towers across the country are taking a huge hit. Covid has hurt downtowns everywhere. Is it time to reorganize downtowns as more neighborhoods and residential aspects than corporate/business centers?

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... ce-problem

PostMar 16, 2022#39282022-03-16T02:37+00:00

https://news.stlpublicradio.org/show/st ... for-growth

dbInSouthCity · PostMar 16, 2022#39292022-03-16T02:53+00:00

But bank of American consolidated multiple people from across the region into a single office in Clayton, we’re done!

dbehrens011 · PostMar 16, 2022#39302022-03-16T04:06+00:00

Any word on reopening Pi or Gringo? Downtown was pretty busy today and it looked like people were looking for options for food. There was a solid 30 min wait at Rosalitas.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

LArchitecture · PostMar 16, 2022#39312022-03-16T12:24+00:00

dbehrens011 wrote:Any word on reopening Pi or Gringo? Downtown was pretty busy today and it looked like people were looking for options for food. There was a solid 30 min wait at Rosalitas.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

30 at Rosalita’s really isn’t that bad

PostMar 16, 2022#39322022-03-16T12:27+00:00

LArchitecture wrote:
dbehrens011 wrote:Any word on reopening Pi or Gringo? Downtown was pretty busy today and it looked like people were looking for options for food. There was a solid 30 min wait at Rosalitas.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
30 at Rosalita’s really isn’t that bad

Dang it wife called and it posted my comment for me ha. Anyway 30 at Rosalita’s isn’t bad. I always felt they should take over a couple parking spaces and spill out onto the street. Use some cool furniture from like Vestre parklets. Your point is more options are needed downtown and that is certainly true. It will all rebound people are only starting to come back. My metro ride to downtown yesterday was the fullest I’ve seen it since going back to work last July.

dbInSouthCity · PostMar 16, 2022#39332022-03-16T12:48+00:00

^ Rosalitas has a huge patio on the side of the building and they also use the front sidewalk for seating. i assume its not out yet?

Suds · PostMar 16, 2022#39342022-03-16T14:03+00:00

dbInSouthCity wrote:^ Rosalitas has a huge patio on the side of the building and they also use the front sidewalk for seating. i assume its not out yet?

Pretty sure they only put it out April-October or so

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk

dweebe · PostMar 16, 2022#39352022-03-16T14:04+00:00

I know the weather wasn't great and we're still in pandemic mode somewhat: but downtown emptied quickly after the St. Patty's parade this last Saturday. By 3pm there were maybe 40 people in the side parking lot at Maggie O Briens and some people along the parade route. Not having Tigin, Flannery's and the Dubliner clearly left few options for post parade activity.

kipfilet · PostMar 16, 2022#39362022-03-16T14:12+00:00

I'm sure the fact that it was freezing didn't help. I've been running the 5 mile race for a few years now and usually hang out around Kiener Plaza for the rest of the morning, getting food and a drink. This time I had to leave ASAP as my hands were about to fall off from the cold.

dweebe · PostMar 16, 2022#39372022-03-16T14:24+00:00

kipfilet wrote: ↑
Mar 16, 2022
I'm sure the fact that it was freezing didn't help. I've been running the 5 mile race for a few years now and usually hang out around Kiener Plaza for the rest of the morning, getting food and a drink. This time I had to leave ASAP as my hands were about to fall off from the cold.

I know what you're saying about the cold. But I remember a similarly cold St. Patty's Saturday about a decade ago where the Irish places were jam packed around sundown and even the non-Irish (Over/Under, Lucas Park, Hair of the Dog) were plenty full with spillover.

(On a related note I think we should all say a prayer for Dogtown tomorrow. If its 75 and sunny on the actual St. Patrick's Day, they're going to get destroyed.)

sc4mayor · PostMar 16, 2022#39382022-03-16T15:28+00:00

I was at 360 with some out of towners after 4pm and it was packed. Lots of people around outside too…mostly volleyball types since there was a gigantic tournament in town.

LArchitecture · PostMar 16, 2022#39392022-03-16T16:19+00:00

dbInSouthCity wrote:^ Rosalitas has a huge patio on the side of the building and they also use the front sidewalk for seating. i assume its not out yet?

I am saying they should expand further. The sidewalk seating always felt cramped to me but if you spill out into the street you can add a few more tables and not feel like you’re impeding flow of people. As for if it’s out yet I am unsure. Seems the weather we are having is here to stay so they certainly should open it.

dweebe · PostMar 16, 2022#39402022-03-16T16:21+00:00

sc4mayor wrote: ↑
Mar 16, 2022
I was at 360 with some out of towners after 4pm and it was packed. Lots of people around outside too…mostly volleyball types since there was a gigantic tournament in town.

Those volleyball tournaments always crush downtown: and that's a good thing.

dredger · PostMar 16, 2022#39412022-03-16T17:35+00:00

matguy70 wrote: ↑
Mar 15, 2022
Office Towers across the country are taking a huge hit. Covid has hurt downtowns everywhere. Is it time to reorganize downtowns as more neighborhoods and residential aspects than corporate/business centers?

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... ce-problem

Something on my mind, could downtown's be the next big push for locating data centers? Couple thoughts, I have read a couple articles of late where you are start seeing some significant local pushback from the large warehouse type data centers sucking up water and being eyesores from Oregon to a recent article from a data center proposal that got denied a planning permit in Virginia. Second, a lot of unused space begging for tenants.

Downtown truly has some significant vertical space well connected to the grid, electric and internet, and a water department being underutlized. You could put a lot of servers in Railway and 909 chestnut with room to develop other spaces as well. It is not dense use but getting some leaseable space would go a long way in putting structures back to use.

dbInSouthCity · PostMar 16, 2022#39422022-03-16T19:00+00:00

dredger wrote: ↑
Mar 16, 2022
matguy70 wrote: ↑
Mar 15, 2022
Office Towers across the country are taking a huge hit. Covid has hurt downtowns everywhere. Is it time to reorganize downtowns as more neighborhoods and residential aspects than corporate/business centers?

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... ce-problem
Something on my mind, could downtown's be the next big push for locating data centers? Couple thoughts, I have read a couple articles of late where you are start seeing some significant local pushback from the large warehouse type data centers sucking up water and being eyesores from Oregon to a recent article from a data center proposal that got denied a planning permit in Virginia. Second, a lot of unused space begging for tenants.

Downtown truly has some significant vertical space well connected to the grid, electric and internet, and a water department being underutlized. You could put a lot of servers in Railway and 909 chestnut with room to develop other spaces as well. It is not dense use but getting some leaseable space would go a long way in putting structures back to use.

There is zero benefit to the City from this.

_nomad_ · PostMar 16, 2022#39432022-03-16T19:21+00:00

dbInSouthCity wrote: ↑
Mar 16, 2022
dredger wrote: ↑
Mar 16, 2022
matguy70 wrote: ↑
Mar 15, 2022
Office Towers across the country are taking a huge hit. Covid has hurt downtowns everywhere. Is it time to reorganize downtowns as more neighborhoods and residential aspects than corporate/business centers?

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... ce-problem
Something on my mind, could downtown's be the next big push for locating data centers? Couple thoughts, I have read a couple articles of late where you are start seeing some significant local pushback from the large warehouse type data centers sucking up water and being eyesores from Oregon to a recent article from a data center proposal that got denied a planning permit in Virginia. Second, a lot of unused space begging for tenants.

Downtown truly has some significant vertical space well connected to the grid, electric and internet, and a water department being underutlized. You could put a lot of servers in Railway and 909 chestnut with room to develop other spaces as well. It is not dense use but getting some leaseable space would go a long way in putting structures back to use.
There is zero benefit to the City from this.

The only benefit is if a tech company with a reasonably significant number of employees comes with the data servers, but that would be a rather specific and rare scenario.

PostMar 16, 2022#39442022-03-16T19:29+00:00

matguy70 wrote: ↑
Mar 15, 2022
Office Towers across the country are taking a huge hit. Covid has hurt downtowns everywhere. Is it time to reorganize downtowns as more neighborhoods and residential aspects than corporate/business centers?

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... ce-problem

In a lot of ways I feel like our downtown is already doing that if you look at the number of loft conversions as well as the residential population growth over the last decade or two. I definitely think downtown St Louis has more potential as a residential neighborhood with a strong business component than an office-first area. If the downtown office sector grows I think most of that would be driven by businesses with employees who see living in an urban loft and walking to work as a perk rather than businesses whose employees mostly drive in from the suburbs.

dredger · PostMar 17, 2022#39452022-03-17T02:59+00:00

dbInSouthCity wrote: ↑
Mar 16, 2022
dredger wrote: ↑
Mar 16, 2022
matguy70 wrote: ↑
Mar 15, 2022
Office Towers across the country are taking a huge hit. Covid has hurt downtowns everywhere. Is it time to reorganize downtowns as more neighborhoods and residential aspects than corporate/business centers?

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... ce-problem
Something on my mind, could downtown's be the next big push for locating data centers? Couple thoughts, I have read a couple articles of late where you are start seeing some significant local pushback from the large warehouse type data centers sucking up water and being eyesores from Oregon to a recent article from a data center proposal that got denied a planning permit in Virginia. Second, a lot of unused space begging for tenants.

Downtown truly has some significant vertical space well connected to the grid, electric and internet, and a water department being underutlized. You could put a lot of servers in Railway and 909 chestnut with room to develop other spaces as well. It is not dense use but getting some leaseable space would go a long way in putting structures back to use.
There is zero benefit to the City from this.

How so? Twitter San Fran HQ is essentially office with a bunch of servers eating up a lot of leasable space in the same building. Yet, In 909 Chestnut you got + 1 million sq feet sitting completely empty on city praying that a possible 4th attempt of a sale will happen. You fill a quarter to a third of 909 Chestnut with leasable space from a server farm and you might have a legit chance at developing the rest of the space. How is that not benefitting the city and downtown???

downtown2007 · PostMar 17, 2022#39462022-03-17T03:08+00:00

Data Centers are terrible for downtown

sc4mayor · PostMar 17, 2022#39472022-03-17T03:33+00:00

^ I have to agree. I’m not saying there aren’t some buildings downtown that couldn’t house them…there are some of those already. I’m just not sure data centers is what downtown interests want to be pushing. I get some KC folks are all gung-ho about data centers…but that’s just cheap land in the middle of no where. Meanwhile, Facebook is building a giant data center in the Chicago area where it already has its Midwest HQ. Cisco just planted it’s central HQ in Chicago. IBM and Microsoft have a presence in STL…why even go after jobless data centers when you can go after real jobs?

pdm_ad · PostMar 17, 2022#39482022-03-17T10:46+00:00

We currently house our servers at Tierpoint (1111 Olive) and there may be 10 people in the entire 4 story building at any given time.

That said, the data centers here in STL are mainly clustered along Tucker because of the multiple fiber feeds that run in a ring in that vicinity You don't have that type of redundant bandwidth everywhere and I wouldn't be surprised to see more data centers pop-up in the area because of that factor.

da_GOAT · PostMar 17, 2022#39492022-03-17T13:35+00:00

sc4mayor wrote: ↑
Mar 17, 2022
^ I have to agree. I’m not saying there aren’t some buildings downtown that couldn’t house them…there are some of those already. I’m just not sure data centers is what downtown interests want to be pushing. I get some KC folks are all gung-ho about data centers…but that’s just cheap land in the middle of no where. Meanwhile, Facebook is building a giant data center in the Chicago area where it already has its Midwest HQ. Cisco just planted it’s central HQ in Chicago. IBM and Microsoft have a presence in STL…why even go after jobless data centers when you can go after real jobs?

DeKalb is NOT getting a Facebook DC lol Chicago struggles immensely with all those "real jobs" and the only thing keeping it from emptying out like STL is boosterism, universities, and legacy.

PostMar 17, 2022#39502022-03-17T13:40+00:00

A DC would be one of the only realistic options for 909 considering its lack of parking and declining population. The more empty office space the better. STL has to focus on cleaning up its image over anything. Seriously, it has a terrible reputation. P.S. the stand alone block wide parking garages and the brutalist architecture don't help aesthetically.

The State of Downtown

Choose Display Mode