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PostJan 14, 2022#651

^Amen.
The neighborhood has said no many time to proposals at Delmar and Skinker and here they take the first one. Yes the market conditions are different, but conditions weren't great at Delmar and Skinker not that long ago.

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PostJan 14, 2022#652

quincunx wrote:
Jan 14, 2022
^Amen.
Yes the market conditions are different, but conditions weren't great at Delmar and Skinker not that long ago.
The reasoning that market conditions are strong at 6190 Delmar, so the SDCC should hold out for exactly what it wants, but market conditions east of the tracks are weak and there are buildings with setbacks (namely Family Dollar) that are auto-oriented (BP station), so it's okay to approve a setback building that is auto-oriented at 5956 Delmar is definitely a recipe for stagnation.

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PostJan 14, 2022#653

How does the SDCC work? I know it's been this way for a long time but it's honestly bizarre how many civic decisions are made by these little committees no ordinary person has ever heard of. 

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PostJan 14, 2022#654

Clark Hubbard responded to me. She said there were several changes made at the request of SDCC and the West End.

I’m pretty bummed out that we’re *allowing* car oriented developing in the East Loop.

But still much more frustrated that we’re *preventing* transit oriented development in the East Loop.

Perhaps developers felt a mixed use building on that lot would face more resistance than something low productivity and so here we are.


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PostJan 14, 2022#655

What developers? Joe Edwards sold the property to Imo's.

I don't think an attempt to inform and assess resistance or support of neighbors was made.
All the plans and draft FBC  say we want 3-8 stories here, no drive thrus. Why are we saying this as a community if it's not the case?

PostJan 15, 2022#656

NextSTL - Drive-thru Imo's Proposed for East Loop

5956 Delmar Imo's Site Plan DeGiverville.jpg (113.9KiB)


https://nextstl.com/2022/01/drive-thru- ... east-loop/

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PostJan 15, 2022#657

Is that a patio on the corner of Delmar there? I guess I'm somewhat encouraged that it has a very narrow street frontage.

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PostJan 15, 2022#658

Yes, as the article states. Right in the cross hairs of drivers turning from eastbound Delmar heading to the drive-thru.

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PostJan 15, 2022#659

The fact that this is even being considered is outrageous.

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PostJan 16, 2022#660

http://ed.gr/csevu?fbclid=IwAR0_lE2Fhj6 ... zRk-cq7fGg

Timely that this popped up over on my Facebook feed today.

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PostJan 16, 2022#661

I remembered there was a proposed Jack-in-the-Box at the southwest corner of Skinker and Delmar. Check out the very first issue of the Times of Skinker DeBaliviere in April 1970. Things have changed, I guess. Where did we lose our way?

https://sdtimes.org/Issues/SD_Times1970_04.pdf

Controversy over the planned construction of the Jack-in-the-Box drive-in restaurant at the corner of Skinker and Delmar continues. Private citizens, agents of the Pa rkview and Rosedale-Skinker Associations and representatives of a Washington University student group, "Stop Jack-in-the-Box," are protesting the location of the drive-in and are negotiating with Foodmaker, Inc., operators of the Jack-in-the-Box chain. 
Citizens have objected to intrusion of a drive-in food operation in a residential neighborhood. They strongly oppose ' the attraction of transients, the noise, litter, and additional traffic at a busy intersection. 
They charge that the garish and unsightly construction would harm the entire area at a time when residents are struggling to maintain stability. 
Spokesmen for Foodmaker, Inc. have replied that the lots are zoned commercial and open to construction of a drive-in facility. They then further stated that they would be required by the city to provide an access lane along Skinker. They maintain that limited parking and seating space in their restaurants discourage patrons from congregating or causing disturbances.
In the face of repeated objections, Foodmaker, Inc. has assured the community that the building at Skinker and Delmar would be of brick-and-shingle construction. 
Meanwhile the Washington University student group, "Stop Jack-in-the-Box," has retained Courtney Goodman, Jr. as their legal counsel. They base their objections on the fact that the buildings now occupying the site are suitable to the neighborhood and house small businesses which draw on a local, walk-in trade.
The students have expressed strong feelings that Jack-in-the-Box construction constitutes visual pollution of the local environment. 
Events affecting the proposed construction of the Jack-in-the-Box at Skinker and Delmar have been occurring almost daily. Agents of the various concerned citizens groups appeared at and spoke to a meeting of the St. Louis Aldermanic Legislative Research Committee on February 2. 
The committee is considering legislature to set standards and limitations for the rapidly growing number of drive-in operations, including a specific proposal making operators of drive-in food operations legally responsible for litter from their establishment within a 300 yard radius of the site. 
A group of residents and students picketed Ralston Purina, the owners of Foodmaker, Inc. recently and were afforded a brief opportunity to talk directly to Ralston Purina officials. The protestors were told that the date for commencement of construction of the Jack-in-the- Box was at the present indefinite.
On March 9, Mr. Don Knoesel, the regional representative of Foodmaker, Inc. addressed a general meeting of the Skinker-Rosedale Association to explain the Jack-in-the-Box story to the community. 
A secret ballot of residents attending the meeting showed 61 opposed to the Delmar Skinker Jack-in-the-Box with 4 in favor of it. On March 10, Albert J. O’Brien, the president of Ralston Purina met with both citizens opposing Jack-in-the-Box as well as representatives of Foodmaker, Inc. The meeting, held in the Clayton offices of Courtney Goodman, was arranged by Attorney General John Danforth, whose family owns Ralston Purina. 
The citizens proposed that Ralston Purina turn the building at Skinker and Delmar over to a non-profit corporation which would encourage the present occupants to remain and seek additional small businesses that would cater to residents of the neighborhood. 
Although Mr. O'Brien observed that the group seemed to have a "bias against anything other than businesses that are completely local," he did nonetheless agree to meet again with the group for dinner and further discussion at the Chinese Restaurant. As The Paper went to press, this meeting had not occurred, but William Leckie, one of the Skinker DeBaliviere area residents who attended the meeting considers it vitally important that Mr. O'Brien come to the community itself to be able to really gage the reasons for the strong resentment against Jack-in-the-Box.

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PostJan 16, 2022#662

quincunx wrote:
Jan 15, 2022
Yes, as the article states. Right in the cross hairs of drivers turning from eastbound Delmar heading to the drive-thru.
Have they indicated that the patio will accommodate outdoor dining? Could Imo's offer outdoor dining, including its most basic accommodations - tables, chairs, trash receptacles, perhaps even umbrellas - if its plan doesn't include restrooms for patrons?

The plans show some landscaping, a dumpster, and parking striping, but nothing to indicate that the "patio" offers any accommodation of patrons other than a blank slab of concrete.

The fact that they're using the same architect as their Clayton location, which replaced a location that had indoor and outdoor dining with one that has neither, does not bode well.

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PostJan 16, 2022#663

quincunx wrote:
Jan 16, 2022
I remembered there was a proposed Jack-in-the-Box at the southwest corner of Skinker and Delmar. Check out the very first issue of the Times of Skinker DeBaliviere in April 1970. Things have changed, I guess. Where did we lose our way?

https://sdtimes.org/Issues/SD_Times1970_04.pdf

Controversy over the planned construction of the Jack-in-the-Box drive-in restaurant at the corner of Skinker and Delmar continues. Private citizens, agents of the Pa rkview and Rosedale-Skinker Associations and representatives of a Washington University student group, "Stop Jack-in-the-Box," are protesting the location of the drive-in and are negotiating with Foodmaker, Inc., operators of the Jack-in-the-Box chain. 
Citizens have objected to intrusion of a drive-in food operation in a residential neighborhood. They strongly oppose ' the attraction of transients, the noise, litter, and additional traffic at a busy intersection. 
They charge that the garish and unsightly construction would harm the entire area at a time when residents are struggling to maintain stability. 
Spokesmen for Foodmaker, Inc. have replied that the lots are zoned commercial and open to construction of a drive-in facility. They then further stated that they would be required by the city to provide an access lane along Skinker. They maintain that limited parking and seating space in their restaurants discourage patrons from congregating or causing disturbances.
In the face of repeated objections, Foodmaker, Inc. has assured the community that the building at Skinker and Delmar would be of brick-and-shingle construction. 
Meanwhile the Washington University student group, "Stop Jack-in-the-Box," has retained Courtney Goodman, Jr. as their legal counsel. They base their objections on the fact that the buildings now occupying the site are suitable to the neighborhood and house small businesses which draw on a local, walk-in trade.
The students have expressed strong feelings that Jack-in-the-Box construction constitutes visual pollution of the local environment. 
Events affecting the proposed construction of the Jack-in-the-Box at Skinker and Delmar have been occurring almost daily. Agents of the various concerned citizens groups appeared at and spoke to a meeting of the St. Louis Aldermanic Legislative Research Committee on February 2. 
The committee is considering legislature to set standards and limitations for the rapidly growing number of drive-in operations, including a specific proposal making operators of drive-in food operations legally responsible for litter from their establishment within a 300 yard radius of the site. 
A group of residents and students picketed Ralston Purina, the owners of Foodmaker, Inc. recently and were afforded a brief opportunity to talk directly to Ralston Purina officials. The protestors were told that the date for commencement of construction of the Jack-in-the- Box was at the present indefinite.
On March 9, Mr. Don Knoesel, the regional representative of Foodmaker, Inc. addressed a general meeting of the Skinker-Rosedale Association to explain the Jack-in-the-Box story to the community. 
A secret ballot of residents attending the meeting showed 61 opposed to the Delmar Skinker Jack-in-the-Box with 4 in favor of it. On March 10, Albert J. O’Brien, the president of Ralston Purina met with both citizens opposing Jack-in-the-Box as well as representatives of Foodmaker, Inc. The meeting, held in the Clayton offices of Courtney Goodman, was arranged by Attorney General John Danforth, whose family owns Ralston Purina. 
The citizens proposed that Ralston Purina turn the building at Skinker and Delmar over to a non-profit corporation which would encourage the present occupants to remain and seek additional small businesses that would cater to residents of the neighborhood. 
Although Mr. O'Brien observed that the group seemed to have a "bias against anything other than businesses that are completely local," he did nonetheless agree to meet again with the group for dinner and further discussion at the Chinese Restaurant. As The Paper went to press, this meeting had not occurred, but William Leckie, one of the Skinker DeBaliviere area residents who attended the meeting considers it vitally important that Mr. O'Brien come to the community itself to be able to really gage the reasons for the strong resentment against Jack-in-the-Box.
A shame that corner will have nothing for a long time.  JiB never happened but demo eventually did.

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PostJan 16, 2022#664

Yeah Mark Groth wrote all about it in 2018

https://nextstl.com/2018/03/the-loss-of ... the-1970s/

PostFeb 13, 2022#665

$550k zoning-only building permit application submitted Jan 28th for the Imo's

PostFeb 17, 2022#666

Mini golf is still happening? I'm surprised and confused. Swade doesn't crowd it out? Or is this outside on the vacant lot portion of the property?

CHURCH BUILDING LLC Building 12/23/2021 02/16/2022 ASSEMBLY $3,800,000.00 INTERIOR/EXTERIOR ALTERATIONS (MINI GOLF) PER PLANS

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PostFeb 17, 2022#667

quincunx wrote:Mini golf is still happening? I'm surprised and confused. Swade doesn't crowd it out? Or is this outside on the vacant lot portion of the property?

CHURCH BUILDING LLC Building 12/23/2021 02/16/2022 ASSEMBLY $3,800,000.00 INTERIOR/EXTERIOR ALTERATIONS (MINI GOLF) PER PLANS
Yeah that’s strange.


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PostFeb 23, 2022#668

quincunx wrote:
Dec 08, 2020
It's going to be Swade Marijuana dispensary.
My drive-by shooting😜 yesterday….
3FF64875-61F2-4722-AFE6-77277D26D5EB.jpeg (2.97MiB)

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PostFeb 23, 2022#669

There were events at both Delmar Hall and The Pageant last night. It was nice to see that end of the Loop busy again.

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PostFeb 23, 2022#670

I hop someone fills the Pi space soon. It was neat to see it as part of the ecosystem.

PostMar 07, 2022#671

On the March 16 1:30pm Board of Adjustment meeting agenda

APPEAL #11596 - Appeal filed by Imo’s Pizza, c/o Gabe McKee, from the determination of the Building Commissioner in the denial of a building permit authorizing the Petitioner to construct commercial building per plans (carryout restaurant with drive-thru and outside patio per plans – zoning only) at 5956 Delmar Blvd. WARD 26 #AB-567193-22 ZONE: “F” – Neighborhood Commercial District 

https://www.stlouis-mo.gov/government/d ... 6-22-2.pdf

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PostMar 09, 2022#672

Is there any chance of the appeal being denied?

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PostMar 10, 2022#673

Certainly not if no one testifies against.
Imo's 5956 Delmar Aerial Rendering.png (212.7KiB)

Imo's 5956 Delmar SW Rendering.png (117.67KiB)

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PostMar 10, 2022#674

Appeals can be denied, though a full denial is relatively rare. In most cases, there are standard conditions applied, and a wide variety of other conditions can also be contemplated. There's often some give and take with getting approval, but with it comes conditions that maybe the applicant wouldn't necessarily want, but the conditions aren't so onerous it's a deal breaker and that allows them to do what they are asking within those defined rules. And the Board of Adjustment definitely does listen to a give weight to citizen testimony. Ultimately, any decision has to have a legal basis (Board of Adjustment hearings are legal proceedings with a transcribed record, and anyone testifying is sworn in), and the aggrieved party can sue in circuit court if they think they have a case.

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PostMar 16, 2022#675

Framer said in another thread that Cresent Plumbing is moving from 640 Rosedale. This could be the sticky wicket that gets things moving around the Metrolink Station!

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