Kingshighway and Lindell Albion West End

urbanitas · PostSep 09, 2021#3012021-09-09T22:30+00:00

wabash wrote: ↑
Sep 09, 2021
There's a boutique version of that model directly across the street - the Chase Park Plaza Royal Sonesta and the Private Residences at the Chase Park Plaza.

Eh, not really.

I don't see any design, service, or branding tie-in between the two. The various marketing sites and materials for the apartments and "The Private Residences" (which doesn't seem to have a functioning website) barely even mention the hotel. The only crossover seems to be that they share, and get complimentary access to, the pool and fitness center, and get discounts on hotel rooms.

chriss752 · PostSep 09, 2021#3022021-09-09T23:33+00:00

sc4mayor wrote: ↑
Sep 09, 2021
^ Stop teasing us already!

I will continue teasing up until I post the project one day as a surprise. The teases are to get people to think about what could be coming to this site. Ultimately, the plans being shared comes down to if/when Koplar can get certain components together and when he decides it's a good time to share the plans.

sc4mayor · PostSep 09, 2021#3032021-09-09T23:35+00:00

^ Hey I’m good with some teasing haha, I was mostly being facetious. Still, I’m excited for this one.

gone corporate · PostSep 10, 2021#3042021-09-10T20:36+00:00

TheWayoftheArch_V2.0 · PostSep 11, 2021#3052021-09-11T19:31+00:00

Chris, do you know if the plan calls for below grad parking or a pier? Combo?

Your description of "fitting the neighborhood" has me thinking style like Park East or perhaps even a terraced wedding cake design (read multi-tiered).

i would be fine with that, but would prefer we meet somewhere in the middle of that and 100...Chrysler building etc.

urbanitas · PostSep 11, 2021#3062021-09-11T22:01+00:00

urbanitas wrote: ↑
Sep 08, 2021
chriss752 wrote: ↑
Sep 04, 2021
As much as I like the discussion of a hotel brand and why, it's not worth continuing for this project. We can dream of having a 5 star hotel here and what not, but it's not in the cards. There is nothing else to report right now.
Well, the point was that hotel-branded luxury residences are a completely untapped market in the St. Louis metro and, outside of Clayton, this is probably the best parcel in the region for them.

And they will need a very high end hotel brand to sell luxury residences. Forest Park Residences by Sheraton just isn't going to cut it.

Architectural Digest: Luxury-Hotel-Branded Residences Coming to Major Cities

dweebe · PostSep 11, 2021#3072021-09-11T22:20+00:00

chriss752 wrote: ↑
Sep 04, 2021
As much as I like the discussion of a hotel brand and why, it's not worth continuing for this project. We can dream of having a 5 star hotel here and what not, but it's not in the cards. There is nothing else to report right now.

If this discussion hurts your feelings, reach out to a moderator to have the offending posts removed and/or the thread locked. Is that what we need to do to make you happy?

PostSep 11, 2021#3082021-09-11T22:24+00:00

urbanitas wrote: ↑
Sep 11, 2021
urbanitas wrote: ↑
Sep 08, 2021
chriss752 wrote: ↑
Sep 04, 2021
As much as I like the discussion of a hotel brand and why, it's not worth continuing for this project. We can dream of having a 5 star hotel here and what not, but it's not in the cards. There is nothing else to report right now.
Well, the point was that hotel-branded luxury residences are a completely untapped market in the St. Louis metro and, outside of Clayton, this is probably the best parcel in the region for them.

And they will need a very high end hotel brand to sell luxury residences. Forest Park Residences by Sheraton just isn't going to cut it.
Architectural Digest: Luxury-Hotel-Branded Residences Coming to Major Cities

I think St. Louis can support at least one of these combinations. Especially as people in CWE mansions/homes get older and don’t want to deal with maintenance and upkeep.

urbanitas · PostSep 11, 2021#3092021-09-11T22:49+00:00

dweebe wrote: ↑
Sep 11, 2021
urbanitas wrote: ↑
Sep 11, 2021
urbanitas wrote: ↑
Sep 08, 2021
Well, the point was that hotel-branded luxury residences are a completely untapped market in the St. Louis metro and, outside of Clayton, this is probably the best parcel in the region for them.

And they will need a very high end hotel brand to sell luxury residences. Forest Park Residences by Sheraton just isn't going to cut it.
Architectural Digest: Luxury-Hotel-Branded Residences Coming to Major Cities
I think St. Louis can support at least one of these combinations. Especially as people in CWE mansions/homes get older and don’t want to deal with maintenance and upkeep.

Definitely. I don't think it would be difficult at all to sell 40 to 50 modern, hotel-branded condos starting at $1 million or so, or leasing the equivalent, overlooking Forest Park, with all the included and nearby amenities.

Whether or not Koplar Properties could manage development of a project like that, or be willing to bring on a partner who can, is another matter, however.

chriss752 · PostSep 11, 2021#3102021-09-11T22:52+00:00

dweebe wrote: ↑
Sep 11, 2021
chriss752 wrote: ↑
Sep 04, 2021
As much as I like the discussion of a hotel brand and why, it's not worth continuing for this project. We can dream of having a 5 star hotel here and what not, but it's not in the cards. There is nothing else to report right now.
If this discussion hurts your feelings, reach out to a moderator to have the offending posts removed and/or the thread locked. Is that what we need to do to make you happy?

I’m sure this is an attempt to poke fun at my comment, but it was written to try and keep people’s hopes away from this being a luxury hotel with some residences. I don’t care if the posts stay up and they don’t bother me, I actually like the discussion of what could be, but it’s not going to happen on this particular site with this particular project. At one point yes, but not right now.

PostSep 11, 2021#3112021-09-11T22:55+00:00

TheWayoftheArch_V2.0 wrote: ↑
Sep 11, 2021
Chris, do you know if the plan calls for below grad parking or a pier? Combo?

Your description of "fitting the neighborhood" has me thinking style like Park East or perhaps even a terraced wedding cake design (read multi-tiered).

i would be fine with that, but would prefer we meet somewhere in the middle of that and 100...Chrysler building etc.

Of course there will be parking here. I’m not going to go into specifics about the positioning of the parking.

You’re thinking in the right terms, but not on the dot. There are more “Central West End” things than just Park East and tiered buildings, but tiered buildings do play a large role in the skyline. Others contribute to the skyline but with a boxy form and not so much height.

For Lindell and Kingshighway, you got to think about this and how it relates to its surroundings. You do have 100 next door, but then you have a 7 floor, or so, building immediately east. So the question becomes, do you tower over the smaller building to better match 100 or do you go shorter than 100 to be more in relation with the neighboring building and to honor the Park Plaza as that anchor to that corner of Forest Park? The design of the building very much takes the location, context, and neighborhood history (past, present, and future) into account. It's going to be something special, but some people might not like it (at first). Knowing what it looks like and all the nitty-gritty details, I love it and feel that it will be a more meaningful addition than 100 in several ways.

BellaVilla · PostSep 11, 2021#3122021-09-11T23:19+00:00

Sounds like it isn’t going to be very tall. Booooo. Not to you Chris, but at a squat building on this corner

chriss752 · PostSep 11, 2021#3132021-09-11T23:22+00:00

BellaVilla wrote: ↑
Sep 11, 2021
Sounds like it isn’t going to be very tall. Booooo. Not to you Chris, but at a squat building on this corner

It'll be a good height that makes an impact but doesn't standout like the Devon Energy Center in OKC. Not the tallest in the State, or even as tall as the Arch, but it will be among the Top 12 tallest in the City and Region. Take this bit of information as you wish.

goat314 · PostSep 12, 2021#3142021-09-12T00:03+00:00

chriss752 wrote: ↑
Sep 11, 2021
BellaVilla wrote: ↑
Sep 11, 2021
Sounds like it isn’t going to be very tall. Booooo. Not to you Chris, but at a squat building on this corner
It'll be a good height that makes an impact but doesn't standout like the Devon Energy Center in OKC. Not the tallest in the State, or even as tall as the Arch, but it will be among the Top 12 tallest in the City and Region. Take this bit of information as you wish.

That means it will be at least 300 feet tall. So it will change the skyline.

BellaVilla · PostSep 12, 2021#3152021-09-12T00:26+00:00

Thanks Chris!

urbanitas · PostSep 12, 2021#3162021-09-12T00:38+00:00

So, then...Phase 2 will be "the tallest building in the Midwest"...? Right?

chris fuller · PostSep 12, 2021#3172021-09-12T20:51+00:00

The occasions I drive by there is there not a parking lot there? And I know I am going to be jumped all over for asking this question-there are dozens/hundreds of parking lots available- but who parks there? Is it a general pay lot? And what alternative(s) will the persons that park there have?

Laife Fulk · PostSep 12, 2021#3182021-09-12T21:08+00:00

Yes, it is a parking lot. Not sure who exactly uses it, but the lot is owned by Koplar. So I believe it's a general pay lot. There's a city owned garage behind the library on Euclid that people can use instead.

Bart Harley Jarvis · PostSep 13, 2021#3192021-09-13T13:54+00:00

The design of the building very much takes the location, context, and neighborhood history (past, present, and future) into account. It's going to be something special, but some people might not like it (at first). Knowing what it looks like and all the nitty-gritty details, I love it and feel that it will be a more meaningful addition than 100 in several ways.

Sounds like QuikTrip

gone corporate · PostSep 13, 2021#3202021-09-13T18:52+00:00

chris fuller wrote: ↑
Sep 12, 2021
The occasions I drive by there is there not a parking lot there? And I know I am going to be jumped all over for asking this question-there are dozens/hundreds of parking lots available- but who parks there? Is it a general pay lot? And what alternative(s) will the persons that park there have?

Free parking for movies at the Chase Cinemas.

TheWayoftheArch_V2.0 · PostSep 13, 2021#3212021-09-13T21:24+00:00

Okay, so I'm envisioning 15-20 story tower fronting Kingshighway, and a second lower section along Lindell in the 7-10 story range where the major amenities/rooftop deck will be situated, together encompassing a central parking structure, no underground parking though. It will be a little brother to the Chase Park Plaza - keeping the iconic tower as the CWE skyline icon, but emulating the tower and rectangle box design like a mini-me mirrored across the street. it will pay homage to big brother in many aspects of design while adding modern elements.

Imagining the tower will end up like this:

sc4mayor · PostSep 13, 2021#3222021-09-13T22:32+00:00

^ If what Chris said about it being within the top 12 tallest in the region holds true, it’ll be bigger than that.

If I’m thinking about this right, that would make it taller than One Cardinal Way, which is 334’. One Hundred is 384’. My only real wish is to have something taller than One Hundred, though I’m not sure that’ll happen.

TheWayoftheArch_V2.0 · PostSep 13, 2021#3232021-09-13T22:40+00:00

Good point. However, with the Chase being 27 stories tall, IIRC, then it would be tough to go much taller than 20 floors and not compete with the chase nor dwarf the neighbor to the east. While he did not say these were hard criteria, he seemed to imply an imposition on the design. Don't see how you can go to 350' without doing both of those things.

Perhaps there is a NYC style streamline pencil spire at the corner that cascades down to the east/south?

chriss752 · PostSep 13, 2021#3242021-09-13T22:45+00:00

TheWayoftheArch_V2.0 wrote: ↑
Sep 13, 2021
Good point. However, with the Chase being 27 stories tall, IIRC, then it would be tough to go much taller than 20 floors and not compete with the chase nor dwarf the neighbor to the east. While he did not say these were hard criteria, he seemed to imply an imposition on the design. Don't see how you can go to 350' without doing both of those things.

Perhaps there is a NYC style streamline pencil spire at the corner that cascades down to the east/south?

With creative design, you can soften the impact a taller building has when next door to a shorter building.

TheWayoftheArch_V2.0 · PostSep 13, 2021#3252021-09-13T22:48+00:00

What does the sun study say?

Kingshighway and Lindell Albion West End

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