urbanSTL

imran wrote: ↑

Aug 23, 2021

^ okay,…
Think about the size of a person and the size/weight of an ambulance. How likely is it that a pedestrian would block an ambulance from turning?
Apart from the protests that intentionally blocked the highways or roads, no reasonable person gets in the way of a first responder.

Speculative concerns know no bounds. Trees can fall over in storms and block ambulance access. By that logic no trees should be planted along ambulance routes.

Many things are possible but improbable. Our cities should be designed first for people and walkability. Ambulances will be just fine

Nobody is expecting a hulks out there that will stop  a ambulance but when every second is a matter of life or death you probably want to keep the impacts to getting to the door minimal, even waiting 5 seconds for people to clear.  

Anyone, none of that is the reason for the bland wall

imran wrote:

dbInSouthCity wrote: ↑

Aug 23, 2021

imran wrote: ↑

Aug 23, 2021

^ okay,…
Think about the size of a person and the size/weight of an ambulance. How likely is it that a pedestrian would block an ambulance from turning?
Apart from the protests that intentionally blocked the highways or roads, no reasonable person gets in the way of a first responder.

Speculative concerns know no bounds. Trees can fall over in storms and block ambulance access. By that logic no trees should be planted along ambulance routes.

Many things are possible but improbable. Our cities should be designed first for people and walkability. Ambulances will be just fine

Nobody is expecting a hulks out there that will stop  a ambulance but when every second is a matter of life or death you probably want to keep the impacts to getting to the door minimal, even waiting 5 seconds for people to clear.  

Anyone, none of that is the reason for the bland wall

Since we’re pursuing this line of thought. If your patient is too sick to lose 5 seconds, they would have been air lifted. Furthermore ACLS ambulances, in communication with ED physicians, begin emergent treatment enroute and don’t have to lose time until they actually get to the hospital.

Agree with the last line

Have family member who is a critical care paramedic in the area. Not a lot of choppers. Lots of rural pickups headed to BJC, etc. Lots of overworked and over utilized labor and capital in the industry such that there absolutely are and will be time crunches in ambulances almost all the time.

Sent from my Moto Z3 Play using Tapatalk

I think people are waaaay overthinking this.

imran wrote: ↑

Aug 23, 2021

Holding developers and institutions accountable begins with awareness and articulation of shortcomings. If you indeed get it then speak up at preservation board meetings, write to aldermen, get involved in form based code processes. I should be careful though since me telling you what to do might also land as ‘comically’ arrogant.

Imran, i appreciate your perspectives and i generally enjoy your contributions here. what bothers me about some of your recent posts is that, despite the fact that 90% of the discussion on this forum is about the shortcomings of various developments, you apparently still feel that you need to educated us about pretty obvious stuff that we talk about all the time. it becomes condescending. expressing a neutral or non-negative opinion about a project doesn't mean that we don't think it could get any better. it doesn't mean that we don't grasp its flaws. do you really think we don't know to contact the BOA? contact the PB? "get involved"? some newer to the forum might not know whom to contact, and so i'm all-for regular, tactful reminders to contact the relevant persons. quincunx does it all the time, for example: "don't forget to contact so-and-so about this. here is their contact info." not "i'm so enlightened and you plebeians are too dumb to get it." anyway, i apologize for reacting strongly and for derailing the thread. in the grand scheme of things, my reaction to Imran's perceived tone is completely inconsequential, so that's all i'll say about it.

..

imran wrote: ↑

Aug 25, 2021

urbanitas wrote: ↑

Aug 25, 2021

Laife Fulk wrote: ↑

Aug 24, 2021

I think people are waaaay overthinking this.

I'm not sure why we think that's the final design of the building, anyway.  That rendering was created by HOK, right?

I'm sure the overall massing and materials will match the Parkview Tower, but the fenestration and streetscape details may be completely different.

All started with them wrapping their fencing with a new banner featuring that image…
I’ll see if I can take a picture of it the next time I’m though there.

Watch out for ambulances, if you do.

imran wrote: ↑

Aug 25, 2021

All started with them wrapping their fencing with a new banner featuring that image…
I’ll see if I can take a picture of it the next time I’m though there.

I know.  

But if the fence screen is the same old rendering from the BJC/WUMC campus renewal project plans, then I suspect they just threw it on there because: a) they didn't have anything else yet, b) they already paid for it, might as well get some use out of it, and c) the PR peeps said, "Meh, it's close enough, nobody's gonna notice it anyway..."

urbanitas wrote: ↑

Aug 25, 2021

But if the fence screen is the same old rendering from the BJC/WUMC campus renewal project plans, then I suspect they just threw it on there because: a) they didn't have anything else yet, b) they already paid for it, might as well get some use out of it, and c) the PR peeps said, "Meh, it's close enough, nobody's gonna notice it anyway..."

While I'd usually cite the disconnect between renderings and what's really going on behind the scenes (such as unwarranted freak outs over BPV towers in the backgrounds of renderings), I don't think I've ever seen the completely wrong rendering used on a construction banner like this. Sorry I'm so vocal about my distaste of the HOK Barnes designs but I'm afraid we're stuck with the Zordon light tube. 

^You're not alone. I'm usually something of an HOK fanboy, but the tube is disappointing.

aprice wrote: ↑

Aug 26, 2021

While I'd usually cite the disconnect between renderings and what's really going on behind the scenes (such as unwarranted freak outs over BPV towers in the backgrounds of renderings), I don't think I've ever seen the completely wrong rendering used on a construction banner like this. Sorry I'm so vocal about my distaste of the HOK Barnes designs but I'm afraid we're stuck with the Zordon light tube. 

Not fencing banners specifically, but I've definitely seen some absurdly outdated renderings on project team billboards at job sites I've visited.

^The cylinders at the dome don't stand out quite so badly as they're at least the same color as the rest of the thing. But that's HOK Sport, which was heavily influenced by Kivett and Myers and supposedly pretty separate from the HOK personnel here at one time. (Maybe the tubes started out with the ramps at Kansas City's sports venues. But they seem a lot less useful in a more vertical structure. And a lot less attractive still when you staple a cheap skin to them. How they get even less attractive than something that at base already looked like it belonged in a parking garage is curious to me.)

symphonicpoet wrote:^The cylinders at the dome don't stand out quite so badly as they're at least the same color as the rest of the thing. But that's HOK Sport, which was heavily influenced by Kivett and Myers and supposedly pretty separate from the HOK personnel here at one time. (Maybe the tubes started out with the ramps at Kansas City's sports venues. But they seem a lot less useful in a more vertical structure. And a lot less attractive still when you staple a cheap skin to them. How they get even less attractive than something that at base already looked like it belonged in a parking garage is curious to me.)

Knowing a little of HOK history I’d say your probably right that Sport was separate considering that group of people broke off and started the firm Populous.

symphonicpoet wrote: ↑

Aug 28, 2021

^The cylinders at the dome don't stand out quite so badly as they're at least the same color as the rest of the thing. But that's HOK Sport, which was heavily influenced by Kivett and Myers and supposedly pretty separate from the HOK personnel here at one time. (Maybe the tubes started out with the ramps at Kansas City's sports venues. But they seem a lot less useful in a more vertical structure. And a lot less attractive still when you staple a cheap skin to them. How they get even less attractive than something that at base already looked like it belonged in a parking garage is curious to me.)

Okay but I actually love the convention center. The Sullivanesque terra-cotta, the ridiculous amount of front doors that are never used, the terminated axis on 8th street, the Parisian glass canopies. the tiny spire on top of the dome, the subsets within the window assemblies, the balcony in the public tower. It's underappreciated and architecturally speaking, might be the best convention center entrance I'm aware of. It says "this is the front entrance, hear me roar"

aprice wrote: ↑

Aug 28, 2021

^The cylinders at the dome don't stand out quite so badly as they're at least the same color as the rest of the thing. But that's HOK Sport, which was heavily influenced by Kivett and Myers and supposedly pretty separate from the HOK personnel here at one time. (Maybe the tubes started out with the ramps at Kansas City's sports venues. But they seem a lot less useful in a more vertical structure. And a lot less attractive still when you staple a cheap skin to them. How they get even less attractive than something that at base already looked like it belonged in a parking garage is curious to me.)
Okay but I actually love the convention center. The Sullivanesque terra-cotta, the ridiculous amount of front doors that are never used, the terminated axis on 8th street, the Parisian glass canopies. the tiny spire on top of the dome, the subsets within the window assemblies, the balcony in the public tower. It's underappreciated and architecturally speaking, might be the best convention center entrance I'm aware of. It says "this is the front entrance, hear me roar"

I don't mean to knock the front entrance at all. It's gorgeous. Great stuff. And walking in it makes you feel like you're going someplace special. The lobby and main entry have a very good feel to them. Honestly, I'm not even really trying to knock the sport dome. At worst it's a bit ordinary, but it's a decent stadium and it seemed to work well enough. No issues with the convention center. It's fine. But the tubes on the hospital look . . . odd.

BJC: Watch live as Queeny Tower at Barnes-Jewish Hospital is demolished

Only 4 stories and the garage podium left now.  They've removed the scaffolding and plywood on the southeast corner, and it kind of looks like they are just pushing debris over the edge now...