It's $2 to park there now, so only 54 years to pay for it, minus a bit for the 17 days in which it becomes valuable.
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So, is there anything left for public input, or is this already rubber stamped? And yeah, the level of pandering to us looney urbanists is quite patronizing. Its almost as of promotional folks read this site and looked for buzz words they thought would appease us.
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They’ll be $25-30 for 50 dates a yeareee123 wrote: ↑Jul 20, 2021It's $2 to park there now, so only 54 years to pay for it, minus a bit for the 17 days in which it becomes valuable.
Public doesn’t generally get to comment on building permits unless they go to a hearing. This won’t go to a hearing.BellaVilla wrote: ↑Jul 20, 2021So, is there anything left for public input, or is this already rubber stamped? And yeah, the level of pandering to us looney urbanists is quite patronizing. Its almost as of promotional folks read this site and looked for buzz words they thought would appease us.
What are the other 33 dates beyond MLS? I get there will be a handful, but twice as many non-MLS events, and apparently major events if people pay that price.
I'd assume those that go to MLS Stadium events are a bit more savvy than the Busch crowd in the city, and therefore not going to pay $25 to park a block away when there's ample free or far cheaper parking.
But then again, as a dude who's never paid that for parking, I'm not really knowledgeable on the subject. The various apps can beat that price by far in every city in the county, save maybe NYC.
Sounds like someone doesn’t have faith in us hosting MLS playoff games yearly…. How about a little more positively and make that 29 dates beyond MLS.eee123 wrote: ↑Jul 20, 2021What are the other 33 dates beyond MLS? I get there will be a handful, but twice as many non-MLS events, and apparently major events if people pay that price.
I'd assume those that go to MLS Stadium events are a bit more savvy than the Busch crowd in the city, and therefore not going to pay $25 to park a block away when there's ample free or far cheaper parking.
But then again, as a dude who's never paid that for parking, I'm not really knowledgeable on the subject. The various apps can beat that price by far in every city in the county, save maybe NYC.
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There are tournaments/cups within the MLS season that teams play, national games, exhibition games, highschool games, college, outdoor high school football in the fall, concerts, events etc.eee123 wrote: ↑Jul 20, 2021What are the other 33 dates beyond MLS? I get there will be a handful, but twice as many non-MLS events, and apparently major events if people pay that price.
I'd assume those that go to MLS Stadium events are a bit more savvy than the Busch crowd in the city, and therefore not going to pay $25 to park a block away when there's ample free or far cheaper parking.
But then again, as a dude who's never paid that for parking, I'm not really knowledgeable on the subject. The various apps can beat that price by far in every city in the county, save maybe NYC.
^ & ^^ & ^^^ Even if they hosted 365 events a year and it paid for itself in 6 months the garage design would still be dogsh*t. Funny that they put the architect's name forward as if it's supposed to generate interest/excitement for a life-sucking box.
Nobody is paying $25 to park at a high school game. The tickets to get in to HS football are what, $5-$8?
We're talking major, garage-justifying events here, not some minor stuff that draws 1,000 fans.
I really hope this stadium hosts lots of events, but I fear it'll be more like the football dome, only a couple events per year beyond the home team's games.
We're talking major, garage-justifying events here, not some minor stuff that draws 1,000 fans.
I really hope this stadium hosts lots of events, but I fear it'll be more like the football dome, only a couple events per year beyond the home team's games.
Too much irony to pack in here. From the cringey bolded CITY branding they're humping to lazy land use, to literal, actual, demolition of productive buildings just so they can get to control commerce on yet another block.
I think db had it right on twitter about them just wanting to cash in (albeit, in the laziest way possible, and not exactly a cash cow, they could really amplify it with mixed use here and some generic ass chain bars) on the area. Add in the 1% TDD on the district, though, and I'm sure it levels the playing field. How will the TDD work in the district? Where will this money go?
We all saw it coming, unfortunately.
I think db had it right on twitter about them just wanting to cash in (albeit, in the laziest way possible, and not exactly a cash cow, they could really amplify it with mixed use here and some generic ass chain bars) on the area. Add in the 1% TDD on the district, though, and I'm sure it levels the playing field. How will the TDD work in the district? Where will this money go?
We all saw it coming, unfortunately.
I guess no street trees or on-street parking on the Olive face. Pretty clear rejection of anything not servicing their brand.
And the garage entry/curb cut means they want Olive to serve as their traffic sewer on game days and don’t care if it’s lifeless otherwise.
And the garage entry/curb cut means they want Olive to serve as their traffic sewer on game days and don’t care if it’s lifeless otherwise.
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Why is there a Sultan's balcony on this parking garage?
Art.KansasCitian wrote:Why is there a Sultan's balcony on this parking garage?
It says “look over here. I’m a boring parking garage”
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I'm on the "I miss the old buildings that were there" side, ftr. But, they've also mentioned hosting eSports (full weekend parking), concerts, etc.
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yeah... this is why i've given up on St. Louis. dangle some sportsball and a bunch of promises and then raze everything and build more parking garages while everyone is busy genuflecting. you'd think people would have learned by now, but it just. keeps. happening.
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I think the city is going to see a lot more benefit (and development) in this area of town due to the soccer stadium than we would have seen without it.
And I don't think it's even close.
That said, I hope the team reconsiders retail for the garage because it just makes too much sense; soccer bars and stores would rake in money at that location, as would restaurants and apartments.
It's a shame that the garage is not being designed for a future phase above it.
And I don't think it's even close.
That said, I hope the team reconsiders retail for the garage because it just makes too much sense; soccer bars and stores would rake in money at that location, as would restaurants and apartments.
It's a shame that the garage is not being designed for a future phase above it.
Seriously. I was hoping Stadium East would be replaced by mixed-use development at some point. Instead it's being reproduced in another part of Downtown and replacing existing mixd-use development.urban_dilettante wrote: ↑Jul 20, 2021you'd think people would have learned by now, but it just. keeps. happening.
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^It's unbelievable to me that more than 15 years after the construction of Busch Stadium III, we still have both stadium garages and both Kiener garages -- and that there is still no sign that any of them will go away anytime soon.
These things are atrocious abominations. They're filthy, outdated, and ugly. The stadium garages specifically are also vibe killers on the street level.
I was just at the Cardinals game last night, and both before and after the game it was impossible to not notice how, despite Ballpark Village's second phase, those parking garages just suck the life out of the area.
These things are atrocious abominations. They're filthy, outdated, and ugly. The stadium garages specifically are also vibe killers on the street level.
I was just at the Cardinals game last night, and both before and after the game it was impossible to not notice how, despite Ballpark Village's second phase, those parking garages just suck the life out of the area.
Maybe there's nothing to learn, but more that people in the region prefer sportsball and convenient parking over architectural aesthetics, urban vibrancy, walkability, etc?urban_dilettante wrote: ↑Jul 20, 2021yeah... this is why i've given up on St. Louis. dangle some sportsball and a bunch of promises and then raze everything and build more parking garages while everyone is busy genuflecting. you'd think people would have learned by now, but it just. keeps. happening.
Exactly. They have the perfect case study of what doesn't work, and are copying it.KansasCitian wrote: ↑Jul 20, 2021^It's unbelievable to me that more than 15 years after the construction of Busch Stadium III, we still have both stadium garages and both Kiener garages -- and that there is still no sign that any of them will go away anytime soon.
These things are atrocious abominations. They're filthy, outdated, and ugly. The stadium garages specifically are also vibe killers on the street level.
I was just at the Cardinals game last night, and both before and after the game it was impossible to not notice how, despite Ballpark Village's second phase, those parking garages just suck the life out of the area.
Raking in money on *gamedays*, yes, definitely possible... Non-gamedays, not so sure.KansasCitian wrote: ↑Jul 20, 2021That said, I hope the team reconsiders retail for the garage because it just makes too much sense; soccer bars and stores would rake in money at that location, as would restaurants and apartments.
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You don't think that a soccer fan community in St. Louis would go to those bars and restaurants for international games, English Premier League, and other international leagues?
If the bars were themed well and cultivated the proper environment, I think you could have a pretty consistent soccer culture there on those blocks.
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If the bars were themed well and cultivated the proper environment, I think you could have a pretty consistent soccer culture there on those blocks.
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They're owned by an out of state private entity - and are cash cows. So it's not as if the Cardinals or some other developer can simply buy them for cheap and redevelop the garages. Unless someone is willing to pony up an insanely high amount to buy them (like $100M+), they're not going anywhere any time soon.KansasCitian wrote: ↑Jul 20, 2021^It's unbelievable to me that more than 15 years after the construction of Busch Stadium III, we still have both stadium garages and both Kiener garages -- and that there is still no sign that any of them will go away anytime soon.
These things are atrocious abominations. They're filthy, outdated, and ugly. The stadium garages specifically are also vibe killers on the street level.
I was just at the Cardinals game last night, and both before and after the game it was impossible to not notice how, despite Ballpark Village's second phase, those parking garages just suck the life out of the area.
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There are two contrarian truths taken at face value all the time in STL:
1. Demand for anything new in Downtown implies demand for new garage construction.
2. Saint Louisans are reticent to pay for parking when they're so used to parking for free.
The biggest winner from this garage may just be Union Station. Saint Louisans will not readily pay $25+ for parking when there's a cheaper venue on the SE corner of the stadium. Amazingly, one of the reasons Union Station failed as a shopping center was because Saint Louisans hate paying for parking, and substitute shopping venues in the County (Galleria, etc.) don't charge for parking. Soon, it'll be Union Station making bank from parking fees again.
Yes, the garage looks pretty, in the same way that there are some really lovely stainless steel garbage cans for sale that match the refrigerator and the stove. But, beyond aesthetics, they'll both end up just smelling like ammonia and bad cheese...
And, I can understand that a retail spot directly across the street from the Police HQ may not be the most appealing place for a sports bar to set up shop...
THAT ALL SAID, there's no doubt this lack of retail really, really, really sucks.
...Seriously, they're building Juliet's Hot Pink Balcony and Presentation Stairway, but there's not even a fan shop retail spot?
1. Demand for anything new in Downtown implies demand for new garage construction.
2. Saint Louisans are reticent to pay for parking when they're so used to parking for free.
The biggest winner from this garage may just be Union Station. Saint Louisans will not readily pay $25+ for parking when there's a cheaper venue on the SE corner of the stadium. Amazingly, one of the reasons Union Station failed as a shopping center was because Saint Louisans hate paying for parking, and substitute shopping venues in the County (Galleria, etc.) don't charge for parking. Soon, it'll be Union Station making bank from parking fees again.
Yes, the garage looks pretty, in the same way that there are some really lovely stainless steel garbage cans for sale that match the refrigerator and the stove. But, beyond aesthetics, they'll both end up just smelling like ammonia and bad cheese...
And, I can understand that a retail spot directly across the street from the Police HQ may not be the most appealing place for a sports bar to set up shop...
THAT ALL SAID, there's no doubt this lack of retail really, really, really sucks.
...Seriously, they're building Juliet's Hot Pink Balcony and Presentation Stairway, but there's not even a fan shop retail spot?
I would love to have a true soccer bar downtown. Right now the only great soccer bar in the area is Amsterdam Tavern near Tower Grove and it is full to point that no one else can get in on major game days like the Euro quarterfinals and final this month. St Louis could use another soccer-first bar and near the new stadium seems a logical place for one.