City Topgolf

chriss752 · PostJun 15, 2021#1262021-06-15T19:22+00:00

After posting this to Facebook and Twitter, the public's reaction has been very positive. Some people have said they can't wait for it.

And RobertN42 and Chris Nagus used the word "sleuth" on here and on Twitter. I didn't know what that meant so I googled it and I guess that's what I did. Investigated this a bit more.

The FAA applications offer a glimpse into projects to come. Not all need to apply for FAA approval, but some do. I haven't found any unannounced projects on there yet for St. Louis, but found the information for the Queen Tower replacement and crane (which I posted about before). There's no graphics or anything on there that show the new buildings, but the coordinates reveal the location and normally it's described as a new building or crane. I check the applications listing for Missouri once a month since there's a lot of outstate things listed.

But back to this thread, it's good to see the alignment of the Topgolf and it's good to have some of the mystery solved. The only real mysteries left are the parking situation, and if the facility will have a different design than others since it is in the City. I guess we'll find out soon.

sc4mayor · PostJun 15, 2021#1272021-06-15T21:43+00:00

^ I imagine facility design will be pretty close to the others.

I'm also going to guess that parking will be along Chouteau based on the pole coordinates right now. The little "mock up" I made back on page 4 was what I was hoping to see and after posting that you all kind of talked me into wanting the clubhouse along Chouteau with the range opening up to the north. Would see a lot more of the city that way. Either way this should be pretty cool...and if they go with surface lots along Chouteau those could always be repurposed in the future.

urbanitas · PostJun 15, 2021#1282021-06-15T21:59+00:00

chriss752 wrote: ↑
Jun 15, 2021
33 applications were made to the FAA on May 14th. Four were for a 53ft tall clubhouse. The other 29 were for poles ranging from 90ft to 190ft. When the coordinates of these applications are placed on a map, it reveals that the TopGolf will be built with the clubhouse's views facing Downtown. Overlaid with the Chesterfield puts the main entrance at the end of Papin and just a short walk away from Steelcote Crossing (which has a retail space that's meant to become a microbrewery). Say Papin is extended to Grand, then people coming from Grand (whether by foot or car) will have a clear look at the main entrance into TopGolf.

I think with this, it cracks a lot of the mystery behind the project and gives us a pretty clear look at what to expect (minus parking). Personally, I think we will see a surface parking lot along Chouteau and replacing the two buildings to the southeast of Papin and Theresa.

Finally, the FAA applications state that a construction work schedule is from March 1st 2022 to December 31st 2023 (take this as a grain of salt since it can change).

P.S.: There should be a formal announcement on this coming this summer.

Blue dots on the map are coordinates. Second picture is the Chesterfield location overlaid on the site. @sc4mayor your overlay on Page 4 of this thread was basically spot on.

Do your map pins include the four clubhouse corners? The four applications for 190' are temporary obstruction permits, for the mobile crane(s), so it's a total of 25 poles, plus the four corners of the building. Topgolf clubhouses come in 2 and 3-story versions. 53' is pretty tall, so I would guess this will be the 3-story version (like the one in Chesterfield).

The view down the "fairway" will not align with the downtown skyline or the Arch, unfortunately. Downtown will be off to the left. I'm sure Topgolf would have preferred a straight-east axis that framed the downtown skyline and the Arch between the corner net poles. But Lux Living still owns 3325 Chouteau (and is likely holding out/trying to extort a ridiculous premium). The properties along the east side of Edwin are not owned by SLU either. Based on the length of the Chesterfield layout, I didn't think they would be able to squeeze it all in without one or more of those parcels, but maybe the length of the "fairway" is a bit flexible.

(I guess one could compare the coordinates to the pole and clubhouse applications from last year, to see if they changed the layout - if they are still on the FAA site...

)

chriss752 · PostJun 15, 2021#1292021-06-15T23:32+00:00

urbanitas wrote: ↑
Jun 15, 2021
chriss752 wrote: ↑
Jun 15, 2021
33 applications were made to the FAA on May 14th. Four were for a 53ft tall clubhouse. The other 29 were for poles ranging from 90ft to 190ft. When the coordinates of these applications are placed on a map, it reveals that the TopGolf will be built with the clubhouse's views facing Downtown. Overlaid with the Chesterfield puts the main entrance at the end of Papin and just a short walk away from Steelcote Crossing (which has a retail space that's meant to become a microbrewery). Say Papin is extended to Grand, then people coming from Grand (whether by foot or car) will have a clear look at the main entrance into TopGolf.

I think with this, it cracks a lot of the mystery behind the project and gives us a pretty clear look at what to expect (minus parking). Personally, I think we will see a surface parking lot along Chouteau and replacing the two buildings to the southeast of Papin and Theresa.

Finally, the FAA applications state that a construction work schedule is from March 1st 2022 to December 31st 2023 (take this as a grain of salt since it can change).

P.S.: There should be a formal announcement on this coming this summer.

Blue dots on the map are coordinates. Second picture is the Chesterfield location overlaid on the site. @sc4mayor your overlay on Page 4 of this thread was basically spot on.

Do your map pins include the four clubhouse corners? The four applications for 190' are temporary obstruction permits, for the mobile crane(s), so it's a total of 25 poles, plus the four corners of the building. Topgolf clubhouses come in 2 and 3-story versions. 53' is pretty tall, so I would guess this will be the 3-story version (like the one in Chesterfield).

The view down the "fairway" will not align with the downtown skyline or the Arch, unfortunately. Downtown will be off to the left. I'm sure Topgolf would have preferred a straight-east axis that framed the downtown skyline and the Arch between the corner net poles. But Lux Living still owns 3325 Chouteau (and is likely holding out/trying to extort a ridiculous premium). The properties along the east side of Edwin are not owned by SLU either. Based on the length of the Chesterfield layout, I didn't think they would be able to squeeze it all in without one or more of those parcels, but maybe the length of the "fairway" is a bit flexible.

(I guess one could compare the coordinates to the pole and clubhouse applications from last year, to see if they changed the layout - if they are still on the FAA site... )

The map includes the Clubhouse, but the pins overlapped with each other.

I don't think the applications from last year are still on that website, but I can check and see. If they are, I'll compare.

PostJun 15, 2021#1302021-06-15T23:35+00:00

Also, Topgolf has long been the rumored operator here (and I continue to hear it from people who are both developers and real estate brokers), which is why the reason I am running with it. However, do not be surprised if it ends up being a "T-Shotz" (KC-based) or "DriveShack". All are very similar. But this will end up being a driving range facility with clubhouse that serves food and beverages as well as sells golf-related merchandise.

urbanitas · PostJun 16, 2021#1312021-06-16T00:04+00:00

chriss752 wrote: ↑
Jun 15, 2021
Also, Topgolf has long been the rumored operator here (and I continue to hear it from people who are both developers and real estate brokers), which is why the reason I am running with it. However, do not be surprised if it ends up being a "T-Shotz" (KC-based) or "DriveShack". All are very similar. But this will end up being a driving range facility with clubhouse that serves food and beverages as well as sells golf-related merchandise.

Not sure if I mentioned this before, but Topgolf has different owners now, so anything is possible. Callaway Golf was a long-time investor, but they bought the remaining shares in October of last year.

I don't think the Topgolf founders, Steve and Dave Jolliffe, are involved anymore. They have a new golf eatertainment concept, but can't recall the name of it at the moment.

dweebe · PostJun 16, 2021#1322021-06-16T00:08+00:00

urbanitas wrote: ↑
Jun 16, 2021
chriss752 wrote: ↑
Jun 15, 2021
Also, Topgolf has long been the rumored operator here (and I continue to hear it from people who are both developers and real estate brokers), which is why the reason I am running with it. However, do not be surprised if it ends up being a "T-Shotz" (KC-based) or "DriveShack". All are very similar. But this will end up being a driving range facility with clubhouse that serves food and beverages as well as sells golf-related merchandise.
Not sure if I mentioned this before, but Topgolf has different owners now, so anything is possible. Callaway Golf was a long-time investor, but they bought the remaining shares in October of last year.

I don't think the Topgolf founders, Steve and Dave Jolliffe, are involved anymore. They have a new golf eatertainment concept, but can't recall the name of it at the moment.

I’m pretty sure Drive Shack is theirs.

https://www.driveshack.com/

STLinCHI · PostJun 16, 2021#1332021-06-16T03:54+00:00

rbb wrote: ↑
Jun 15, 2021
Awesome work sir!

Here's an approximate view from one of the higher decks of a completed TopGolf looking at downtown (though you'll have to imagine the screens) - this should be a fantastic vantage point of the city:

https://www.google.com/maps/place/S+Com ... 90.2295443

-RBB

Is that a mini Burj Khalifa on the east side or is my mind playing tricks on me?

urbanitas · PostJun 16, 2021#1342021-06-16T05:30+00:00

dweebe wrote: ↑
Jun 16, 2021
urbanitas wrote: ↑
Jun 16, 2021
Not sure if I mentioned this before, but Topgolf has different owners now, so anything is possible. Callaway Golf was a long-time investor, but they bought the remaining shares in October of last year.

I don't think the Topgolf founders, Steve and Dave Jolliffe, are involved anymore. They have a new golf eatertainment concept, but can't recall the name of it at the moment.
I’m pretty sure Drive Shack is theirs. https://www.driveshack.com/

Close. It's called Puttshack - a bar, restaurant, and indoor "tech-driven" mini-golf experience...

They just opened their first US location in Hotlanta, with Chicago, Miami, and Nashville locations on the way...

Chain Store Age: Topgolf founders launching mini-golf, entertainment concept in the U.S.

chris fuller · PostJun 17, 2021#1352021-06-17T12:17+00:00

pop stroke https://popstroke.com/

npav · PostJun 17, 2021#1362021-06-17T13:02+00:00

chris fuller wrote: ↑
Jun 17, 2021
pop stroke https://popstroke.com/

I went to a Popstroke in Port St. Lucie Florida, and it was a really awesome experience. Top notch mini-golf, challenging holes that didn't rely on gimmicks, a sports bar / restaurant, game area with bags and ping pong, and multiple simulator bays.

A Popstroke in STL would be a big hit, it's not what's going in here based on the FAA documents for the netting/poles, but if one opened as an expansion one day it would not surprise me at all.

urbanitas · PostJun 17, 2021#1372021-06-17T20:49+00:00

chris fuller wrote: ↑
Jun 17, 2021
pop stroke https://popstroke.com/

Well done, whoever came up with that name. That's even worse than Puttshack.

Too many West Virginia jokes...

chriss752 · PostJun 20, 2021#1382021-06-20T05:46+00:00

My investigating and post on my blog got a nice little shoutout on KMOX the other day. That's nice to see.

Clearly what I said isn't false since it's backed up, but normally when I make claims like this, and they end up being wrong, someone from the SLU-MRC, or a different entity elsewhere in the City and Region, will correct me quickly.
https://www.audacy.com/kmox/news/local/ ... wn-skyline

sc4mayor · PostJun 20, 2021#1392021-06-20T17:50+00:00

^ I saw that yesterday too and almost posted it...nice work!

STLinCHI · PostJun 20, 2021#1402021-06-20T18:36+00:00

The view from the clubhouse will be amazing. Arch will be in line with Scottrade. New soccer stadium/US to the left along with the skyline. Busch in full view to the south. This will be quite unique and a tourist draw. Capt' D's and Rally's ain't long for this world.

dweebe · PostJun 20, 2021#1412021-06-20T20:51+00:00

STLinCHI wrote: ↑
Jun 20, 2021
The view from the clubhouse will be amazing. Arch will be in line with Scottrade. New soccer stadium/US to the left along with the skyline. Busch in full view to the south. This will be quite unique and a tourist draw. Capt' D's and Rally's ain't long for this world.

You mean Enterprise Center.

STLinCHI · PostJun 20, 2021#1422021-06-20T22:21+00:00

dweebe wrote: ↑
Jun 20, 2021
STLinCHI wrote: ↑
Jun 20, 2021
The view from the clubhouse will be amazing. Arch will be in line with Scottrade. New soccer stadium/US to the left along with the skyline. Busch in full view to the south. This will be quite unique and a tourist draw. Capt' D's and Rally's ain't long for this world.
You mean Enterprise Center.

Kiel. Yep

dweebe · PostJun 20, 2021#1432021-06-20T22:48+00:00

STLinCHI wrote: ↑
Jun 20, 2021
dweebe wrote: ↑
Jun 20, 2021
STLinCHI wrote: ↑
Jun 20, 2021
The view from the clubhouse will be amazing. Arch will be in line with Scottrade. New soccer stadium/US to the left along with the skyline. Busch in full view to the south. This will be quite unique and a tourist draw. Capt' D's and Rally's ain't long for this world.
You mean Enterprise Center.
Kiel. Yep

I don’t think you’ll be able to see the MLS stadium either. Wells Fargo and the rest of the hill it’s on will block any view.

kipfilet · PostJun 21, 2021#1442021-06-21T18:40+00:00

Had to drive out to Lincoln County early last Saturday morning. Crazy line at the Chesterfield location waiting for it to open.

dweebe · PostJun 21, 2021#1452021-06-21T22:00+00:00

kipfilet wrote: ↑
Jun 21, 2021
Had to drive out to Lincoln County early last Saturday morning. Crazy line at the Chesterfield location waiting for it to open.

Fathers Day weekend.

But hey, this is not the type of crap we need in the city. Plus someone will soon build something better there. And there’s too much golf here.

GoHarvOrGoHome · PostJun 21, 2021#1462021-06-21T22:04+00:00

I don’t see Top Golf as particularly harmful, the daily golfer to square foot ratio blows any actual golf course out of the water.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

kipfilet · PostJun 21, 2021#1472021-06-21T23:09+00:00

dweebe wrote: ↑
Jun 21, 2021
kipfilet wrote: ↑
Jun 21, 2021
Had to drive out to Lincoln County early last Saturday morning. Crazy line at the Chesterfield location waiting for it to open.
Fathers Day weekend.

But hey, this is not the type of crap we need in the city. Plus someone will soon build something better there. And there’s too much golf here.

I couldn't care less about golf, but would rather have a TopGolf at that corner than what is currently there (industrial wasteland).

STLinCHI · PostJun 22, 2021#1482021-06-22T00:56+00:00

dweebe wrote: ↑
Jun 21, 2021
kipfilet wrote: ↑
Jun 21, 2021
Had to drive out to Lincoln County early last Saturday morning. Crazy line at the Chesterfield location waiting for it to open.
Fathers Day weekend.

But hey, this is not the type of crap we need in the city. Plus someone will soon build something better there. And there’s too much golf here.

TG will draw people into the area who are likely unaware of current developments occurring nearby the facility. I expect it will also spur developers to invest in additional projects. Changing perceptions about the city is a need. This place can be a strong contributor. Somebody may eventually build a more substantial development on the site years down the road. In the meantime there's plenty of vacant land within a stone's throw. We need activity and this place will bring it in spades across a large daypart.

jshank83 · PostJun 22, 2021#1492021-06-22T01:45+00:00

I am a little surprised on the people pushing back on this.

This is a project that actually gets more people to come to the city to spend money. It’s next to an ugly rail yard. I wouldn’t consider it a very desirable spot for many things. I think it will help spur development around it, if it goes in. I personally would be happy to live walkable to a topgolf (although I know it isn’t for everyone). I don’t see anything better on the even mid term horizon for that spot, so it to me isn’t taking up space from something else better.

Hopefully it can eventually make a connection. From the Armory to Steelcoat projects to top golf to the Jefferson at Chouteau project.

BellaVilla · PostJun 22, 2021#1502021-06-22T02:54+00:00

dweebe wrote: ↑
Jun 21, 2021
kipfilet wrote: ↑
Jun 21, 2021
Had to drive out to Lincoln County early last Saturday morning. Crazy line at the Chesterfield location waiting for it to open.
Fathers Day weekend.

TG in Chesterfield is busy every day

City Topgolf

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