Even after being told by real estate people that JDS bought it, there is still a group of people insisting the Memphis firm bought it. I'm working on getting confirmation on who's doing what, but I'm starting to wonder if it is a partnership.
JDS is a huge NYC developer, building some of the biggest, best modern landmarks; I really can't see them being interested in a loft conversion project in St. Louis.
JDS has their eyes on a few other things here. Doesn't mean they'll buy them but they have their eyes on things. This could be a result of them hiring many people from WashU.framer wrote: ↑Jan 15, 2021JDS is a huge NYC developer, building some of the biggest, best modern landmarks; I really can't see them being interested in a loft conversion project in St. Louis.
I have retracted the claim that it is JDS in light of multiple others stepping forward with the claim that it is the Memphis company. Until I hear anything back, it is disputed amongst many people. The people who told me it's JDS are 100% confident. And the ones that tell me it's the Memphis firm are 100% confident as well.
The Butler Bros building is still owned by the Farahan rug empire out of Indianapolis, according to Geo St.Louis. I wonder if they use it for storage? 
Whoever the developer is, they probably just have it under contract, which means it may be awhile before we know who it is, if ever...
Whoever the developer is, they probably just have it under contract, which means it may be awhile before we know who it is, if ever...
According to the Assessor's website it's owned by Sovereign Partners out of NEW YORK CITY!
The contact address has always been Sovereign Partners' address even though they've moved a couple times, but they are not the owner, at least not the majority owner.quincunx wrote: ↑Jan 26, 2021According to the Assessor's website it's owned by Sovereign Partners out of NEW YORK CITY!
I suspect that the building is part of a real estate portfolio which Sovereign manages for the owner, or maybe some kind of long-term speculation REIT?
You almost have to wonder about REITs. You see the investment advertisements talking up 10% returns/yields on these REIT investments.urbanitas wrote: ↑Jan 26, 2021The contact address has always been Sovereign Partners' address even though they've moved a couple times, but they are not the owner, at least not the majority owner.quincunx wrote: ↑Jan 26, 2021According to the Assessor's website it's owned by Sovereign Partners out of NEW YORK CITY!
I suspect that the building is part of a real estate portfolio which Sovereign manages for the owner, or maybe some kind of long-term speculation REIT?
I think of four scenarios 1) they have to invest in ever expanding portfolio of buildings but that takes time to bring to market and you have to assume as they invest in more properties they get less premium locations, lease rate, return 2) They buy up buildings but now a premium and probably less return 3) they don't invest in additional developments or purchases and essentially become a pyramid scheme 4) or if REIT is big enough it is all above, invest in properties but not enough to maintain promises. So my final conclusion, like any good pyramid scheme it is also good to be snookered on the front end instead of the back end.
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Geo STL takes months to update after a sale. But it’s definitely been sold
Hey now, there's nothing wrong with being snookered on the back end.dredger wrote: ↑Jan 26, 2021You almost have to wonder about REITs. You see the investment advertisements talking up 10% returns/yields on these REIT investments.
I think of four scenarios 1) they have to invest in ever expanding portfolio of buildings but that takes time to bring to market and you have to assume as they invest in more properties they get less premium locations, lease rate, return 2) They buy up buildings but now a premium and probably less return 3) they don't invest in additional developments or purchases and essentially become a pyramid scheme 4) or if REIT is big enough it is all above, invest in properties but not enough to maintain promises. So my final conclusion, like any good pyramid scheme it is also good to be snookered on the front end instead of the back end.
quincunx wrote: ↑Sep 12, 2020"As-is, the building contains 718,660 square feet and consists of eight stories. A preliminary redevelopment plan includes 342 multifamily units with 397 garage parking spaces."
https://multifamily.cushwake.com/Listings/27159
Hadn't seen this old rendering before, or at least didn't notice the 2-story addition on the roof.
It's interesting, and those penthouse units would provide some great terraces and views, but that's probably not going to fly. One-story rooftop loft additions above the top floor units might work though. It would be a great way to get some light into the atrium-facing units...
ReflexCRE - Butler Bros Building (pdf)
Curious. This old property description says:
"As-is, the building totals 718,660 square feet and consists of 8 stories with the first 3-stories serving as a parking garage and approvals for an additional two story penthouse of approximately 71,277 square feet. A preliminary redevelopment plan includes
342 multifamily units with 397 garage parking spaces and two retail spaces."
Curious. This old property description says:
"As-is, the building totals 718,660 square feet and consists of 8 stories with the first 3-stories serving as a parking garage and approvals for an additional two story penthouse of approximately 71,277 square feet. A preliminary redevelopment plan includes
342 multifamily units with 397 garage parking spaces and two retail spaces."
Here's our answer:
Developer buys Butler Brothers building, bets MLS stadium will spark that area of downtown
Developer buys Butler Brothers building, bets MLS stadium will spark that area of downtown
ST. LOUIS — A Memphis developer has purchased the historic Butler Brothers building on Olive Street, betting that momentum around Union Station and a new Major League Soccer stadium will finally make feasible a rehab of one of the largest empty buildings in the Downtown West neighborhood.
A company affiliated with Development Services Group of Memphis closed on the building at 1717 Olive Street last month. The company focuses on "adaptive reuse of historic buildings in urban communities around the U.S," said Gary Prosterman, the firm's president and CEO.
Development Services Group is still preparing plans for the building, Prosterman said.
“What we can say is we were attracted to it because we do believe in the momentum in the Downtown West area, but we’ve got to get much more immersed in the community," he said. "These are big, long, hard projects.”
Prosterman said "the most logical component" would be to rehab the structure mostly as apartments, with ground floor restaurants and bars that could cater to soccer fans in the area for games at the stadium under construction near Olive and 20th streets.
Nice! Can’t wait to hear more.
Really, really like how Greater St. Louis is getting involved in some of these projects with their investment fund.
Really, really like how Greater St. Louis is getting involved in some of these projects with their investment fund.
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I am going to put it out there:Iis it possible that a factor in the re-doing of the Butler Building, the redo of the tire building on Locust, the proposed apts on Washington is in anticipation of the upcoming NGA which is around the corner and down Jefferson? A lot of people with good pay will be working there and their residence could be Butler TireCo or 1801
Certainly an excellent point. I’m not sure how many current NGA workers will be moving downtown, or adjacent (I’m also under the impression the NGA isn’t going to directly create hundreds of new jobs...not including construction, the ancillary benefits in new firms, startups, geospatial tech etc will probably be huge for STL, but I don’t think the NGA itself will get much bigger).chris fuller wrote: ↑Feb 19, 2021I am going to put it out there:Iis it possible that a factor in the re-doing of the Butler Building, the redo of the tire building on Locust, the proposed apts on Washington is in anticipation of the upcoming NGA which is around the corner and down Jefferson? A lot of people with good pay will be working there and their residence could be Butler TireCo or 1801
Either way I could definitely see this potential project benefiting both the NGA and the MLS.
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^Even if NGA doesn't create new jobs just maintaining the workforce it has will draw new people. Local folks retire. Several of the folks in Town and Country Symphony are recently retired NGA sorts. And at least one of the fellows I sometimes game with is current NGA nearing retirement age. Whomsoever fills their shoes could well be from outside the area and they might look at a loft convenient to the campus. And as you say, other organizations moving in to chase GeoInt capital will most likely bring new job openings with them. I'd guess Chris Fuller has a point.
The new Square office and 'Innovation District' are much closer than NGA.chris fuller wrote: ↑Feb 19, 2021I am going to put it out there:Iis it possible that a factor in the re-doing of the Butler Building, the redo of the tire building on Locust, the proposed apts on Washington is in anticipation of the upcoming NGA which is around the corner and down Jefferson? A lot of people with good pay will be working there and their residence could be Butler TireCo or 1801
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^Isn't NGA one of the anchors of that innovation district? I think it all plays together. Harmonic amplification. There's some business buzzword that bounces out of my wife's office every now and then that comes to mind.
To put it another way, in ten years time I can honestly believe that NGA/Square/Globe/TRex the GeoInt Village and the Gigabyte Corridor could be what Cortex is today. Which could well make the western end of downtown and the nearby north side neighborhoods the next Grove. It may seem like a stretch, but the government is putting a lot more money in NGA, so things could happen one whale of a lot quicker. Thus far NGA has been something of a local sleeper, but the new campus makes it obvious its staying. The big investment means it's pretty likely to still be here fifty years from now, and I expect the outside world noticed that. It seems clear that they did, actually. We will have to see what the developers propose. Hotel might be aimed more at the soccer stadium. (And I'm sure they'll try to capitalize on it, either way. At least with retail.) But if there's lots of apartments . . . that seems more like a bet on Gigabyte/GeoInt.
You mean the NGA West HQ itself, or their incubator space on Washington Ave.?symphonicpoet wrote: ↑Feb 19, 2021^Isn't NGA one of the anchors of that innovation district? I think it all plays together. Harmonic amplification. There's some business buzzword that bounces out of my wife's office every now and then that comes to mind.
Either way, we don't know what the anchors are beyond Square itself, as the Squares haven't defined their District or it's borders yet.
The Dragon Trading building (1709 Locust) and the 7-story building at 1706 Olive seem like the next contenders for redevelopments. Those + Butler Brothers, Tire Mart/Lofts at the Hupp, 1800 Washington and 1801 Washington will truly activate this once quiet part of Downtown when all are completed. Plus, they'll all add hundreds of new residents to support the existing, and future, businesses.
I still hold out hope that the power plant on Locust, which is owned by Koplar Properties, is saved and redeveloped into some sort of "anchor" business. Like a restaurant/bar/music venue.
I still hold out hope that the power plant on Locust, which is owned by Koplar Properties, is saved and redeveloped into some sort of "anchor" business. Like a restaurant/bar/music venue.
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I'm not really referring to either Square or NGA itself, but rather the growing district around them. Different folks give it different names and it's not necessarily terribly formal yet. But at its origin Cortex wasn't necessarily terribly formal either. It took a while before the major backers decided on what to call it (Bio Belt was an early contender, as I recall) or what the official boundaries should be. The Geo Intelligence district is doubtless at an earlier stage than Cortex was ten years ago, but I expect it will move much faster, thanks to the government bucks and the sense of certainty that goes with them. I think it already is going faster. The SCIF space at the Globe building seems like a clear and fairly new outgrowth. (It's doubtless their promotional materials that have cemented the marketing names "Gigabyte Corridor" and "GeoInt Village" into my head. But the names are far less important here than the fact that there's a cluster of stuff . . . anchored by NGA, Square, T-Rex, and arguably Globe.)urbanitas wrote: ↑Feb 19, 2021You mean the NGA West HQ itself, or their incubator space on Washington Ave.?symphonicpoet wrote: ↑Feb 19, 2021^Isn't NGA one of the anchors of that innovation district? I think it all plays together. Harmonic amplification. There's some business buzzword that bounces out of my wife's office every now and then that comes to mind.
Either way, we don't know what the anchors are beyond Square itself, as the Squares haven't defined their District or it's borders yet.
And sure, it's a long hike from Butler Brothers to Globe or T-Rex. (Or even NGA.) But it's a really short drive. And I expect that's something the developers are aware of. It'd be a nice short train trip too. Or bus trip. If you can pry us out of our cars somehow. (Adding more people is always a nice step in the process.)
This is a cornerstone to investment bandaids on the rest of the immediate area. I'm with Chris on 17xx Locust properties. 1711 could make either bomb mini-armory style creative space for the right firm. Think about those soaring ceilings. I also think a nice music venue would be perfect.
I have been pulling for this building for years now.. please don't string me along. I'd like to think those remaining buildings are in a prime spot to be rehabbed, but hopefully quickly. 1711 has been on the demo warning list for years.
I have been pulling for this building for years now.. please don't string me along. I'd like to think those remaining buildings are in a prime spot to be rehabbed, but hopefully quickly. 1711 has been on the demo warning list for years.
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^Oh, heck yes. That powerplant would make an absolutely fantastic space with the right vision. Tie it together with 1709 and the two of them could be absolute dynamite. I don't want to drag this too far off topic, but that building could be something special.