urbanSTL

It needs some stubborn property owners to die.  That's what happened at the NE corner of Hamilton and Delmar and voila! getting rehabbed.

Elek.borrelli wrote:I said this in another thread, but all this area really needs is a couple more key developments along Delmar, some infrastructure updates, and a free Loop Trolley. The future of this end of the strip is looking more promising every day with new projects being proposed, such as DelmarDivine and The Bridge at Euclid. My hope is that everything is slowly stitched together via infill and redevelopment, which, intern, causes the near northside to boom.

I mentioned this in the other thread, but here are some images from the Skinker DeBaliviere master plan. I believe WUSTL was involved in this plan so I imagine they would be trying to follow it.








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Interesting that Left Bank Books is in one of the renderings. Were they considering moving at one point?

Miss Shell wrote:Interesting that Left Bank Books is in one of the renderings. Were they considering moving at one point?

These are extremely conceptual, so I think it was more about allowing for imagination of what kind of shops could be there.


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Those look freaking awesome! Never seen 'em before. I am desperate for the day where all of those auto-oriented shops along Delmar west of DeBaliviere are leveled, and 2-5 story apartment buildings are erected in their place. I would hope that we'd see some movement on this in the next 3 years whether that be the acquisition of properties by developers or physical plans. I really appreciate you sharing those, SeattleNative. The Delmar-DeBaliviere corridor has a bright future.

Elek.borrelli wrote:Those look freaking awesome! Never seen 'em before. I am desperate for the day where all of those auto-oriented shops along Delmar west of DeBaliviere are leveled, and 2-5 story apartment buildings are erected in their place. I would hope that we'd see some movement on this in the next 3 years whether that be the acquisition of properties by developers or physical plans. I really appreciate you sharing those, SeattleNative. The Delmar-DeBaliviere corridor has a bright future.

Wait til you see the renderings for a reimagined metro garage on the corner of DeBaliviere and Delmar. Full plan can be found here. https://www.stlouis-mo.gov/government/d ... ersize.pdf


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Build it!

^You could see that they had something big in mind in the background of the shot of Goodfellow and Delmar. I seem to recall we had a thread about all of this a few years ago. It's exciting stuff if they can make it happen.

I'd rather see contemporary architecture and higher floor counts close to the station.

Elek.borrelli wrote: ↑

Dec 04, 2020

Those look freaking awesome! Never seen 'em before. I am desperate for the day where all of those auto-oriented shops along Delmar west of DeBaliviere are leveled, and 2-5 story apartment buildings are erected in their place. I would hope that we'd see some movement on this in the next 3 years whether that be the acquisition of properties by developers or physical plans. I really appreciate you sharing those, SeattleNative. The Delmar-DeBaliviere corridor has a bright future.

Read all about it!

Nextstl - The Best Transit-Oriented Neighborhood in St. Louis is Completely Planned, Now What?

https://nextstl.com/2013/09/skinky-d-tod/

Crossroads School is in a fantastic location; I wonder if a boom of that scale will aid their admissions. Think about all the after school opportunities! As for the design of infill, I'd like to see a mix of classic and modern (think of Hudson v. Expo). I like the design of the envisioned houses on the Metro garage.

Considering the cost of tuition, which is over $27,000 for high school, I doubt an improvement in the neighborhood would boost enrollment. Maybe a couple families that live in the CWE or DeBalivier might consider it over Burroughs or MICDS out of convenience, but usually private schools recruit their students based on mission statements and academic prestige.

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quincunx wrote: ↑

Dec 04, 2020

WUSTL now owns 5980 Delmar. Only a few parcels left to acquire. THey must be planning a big redevelopment.

WUSTL Properties Around Delmar Station.png

I wonder if the city would ever vacate DeGiverville at Delmar to free up land for development.  

I hope not. Long blocks are bad
They already vacated Hamilton south of Delmar when it should be reconnected south to Washington and Westminster.

Jeez; we need more connectedness, not less. In fact, De Giverville and Des Peres should both be re-connected as through-streets south from Delmar. 

Free The Grid!

Yeah, but the chances of reopening a street onto Delmar have gotta be near zero.

framer wrote:Jeez; we need more connectedness, not less. In fact, De Giverville and Des Peres should both be re-connected as through-streets south from Delmar. 

Free The Grid!

They are through-streets for cyclists and pedestrians


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quincunx wrote: ↑

Dec 07, 2020

Long blocks are bad

How so? I've always thought that the long stretches of the Loop that don't require having to cross a street (e.g. Rosedale-to-Skinker or Westgate-to-Eastgate) is something of an asset that improves the pedestrian experience. I'd like to see Rosedale between Delmar and Des Peres removed. It adds nothing but another swath of concrete for pedestrians to cross. 

I hear the case for pedestrians and cyclists, but perhaps something like the Loop Lofts' Limit Ave walkway, the Pageant's walkway to the Delmar Metrolink Station, or pedestrian quad outside the former Market in the Loop could work. As it is, DeGiverville is a needlessly wide alley entrance, built to accommodate two-way traffic and parking on either side - so four lanes - right up to the intersection.

GAZETTE: How do urban planners define walkability, and what about walkability and city blocks do you study in your research?

SEVTSUK: Walkability is a complicated term. It’s like sustainability. It’s an umbrella term, and there’s a lot going on underneath it. But generally speaking, researchers agree that there are at least two critical ingredients to any environment being walkable. First, an environment has to offer destinations to walk to. Second, walking paths have to be comfortable and safe. In the urban design and planning professions, there is a widely shared belief that for walkability, smaller blocks are always better. This assumption is so common that many transportation studies, too, use urban block size as a predictor for walking activity. We wanted to question that, and find out if that really is the case, and what’s at play here. There are surprisingly few studies about why particular dimensions have been chosen, historically, for different urban grids. If we look around the world, they come in enormous varieties.

https://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/ ... ocks-work/

^^ longer blocks decrease walkability overall by decreasing the number of access points perpendicular to the long blocks. think about how few ways there are to access Delmar between Skinker and Kingsland due to all the closed streets south of Delmar. and then you're simultaneously increasing auto traffic on the long blocks—again due to fewer access points—which increases the danger to pedestrians.

sc4mayor wrote: ↑

Dec 07, 2020

^ This.

^^^ See Chapter 9 in Death and Life of Great American Cities for further detail.

I don't think that's the case in the Loop and I don't think long blocks like those in the Loop are what Jane Jacobs was critiquing. 
What she was getting after was creating a sort of mono-culture that isn't interesting or engaging to the pedestrian. She wanted variety, diversity, eyes on the street, different places pedestrians could duck into and feel engaged, entertained, safe, etc.... Her critique works well for big box stores. There's nowhere to go, nothing engaging, nothing to make one feel safe. Another good example would be the Famous-Barr Building Downtown. Even when it was in operation it was monolithic, only had a few entrances, and those blocks felt dead. 

Long blocks like Rosedale to Skinker, with restaurants, bars, hotels, stores, music/entertainment venues and a pedestrian walking path are exactly what she was espousing. 

As for increasing traffic, it's kind of a double-edged sword. Often it seems there's enough traffic in the Loop that it really slows things down. It's gotten to the point that people that are in a hurry and need to get east-west quickly seem to avoid it, resulting in there being slower (safer) traffic on Delmar. Furthermore, I don't see opening Limit Ave or Westgate Ave into Parkview having any sort of traffic relieving effect on Delmar. Although, DeGiverville probably could as people could actually get somewhere - Waterman/DeBaliviere. 

SeattleNative wrote: ↑

Dec 07, 2020

They are through-streets for cyclists and pedestrians

Except in places like the CWE where you have to get off you bike and go through a gate. I weave through the CWE on my bike because it's easier than dismounting at those cul-du-sacs. 

aprice wrote:

SeattleNative wrote: ↑

Dec 07, 2020

They are through-streets for cyclists and pedestrians

Except in places like the CWE where you have to get off you bike and go through a gate. I weave through the CWE on my bike because it's easier than dismounting at those cul-du-sacs. 

I agree about the CWE, I was just specifically speaking to those two access points on DeGiverville and Des Peres. I have noticed in the CWE that on Laclede, some of the sidewalks have little ramps for bikes that are really nice to hop onto and some of the gates are permanently open that we’re previously closed (like at McPherson and Boyle).


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