urbanSTL

Are there any plans for street improvements/branding along Clark? It's kind of becoming St. Louis' sports/attraction main street: MLS stadium, Wheel, Union Station, Enterprise Center, Busch, Ballpark, and pretty much the Arch Grounds. 

It was repaved this summer from Union station to Broadway, so nothing for another 15 years

RuskiSTL wrote: ↑

Oct 15, 2020

Are there any plans for street improvements/branding along Clark? It's kind of becoming St. Louis' sports/attraction main street: MLS stadium, Wheel, Union Station, Enterprise Center, Busch, Ballpark, and pretty much the Arch Grounds. 

Are you kidding? This is St. Louis. Of course there are plans!

Here’s a view from the pitch.

Stadium is coming along. Big concrete pours; walls, tunnel under market, steel erection in Dec. due to large lay down area in field, no tower crane needed.

^Nice. VIP access!

At one point years ago  it was proposed to make Clark st. a sports corridor with statues and plaques commemorating our sports history. Also hoping to attract sports related bars and retail.

southcitygent wrote: ↑

Oct 17, 2020

At one point years ago  it was proposed to make Clark st. a sports corridor with statues and plaques commemorating our sports history. Also hoping to attract sports related bars and retail.

Hmm, maybe that's an idea for the Clark Ave. reconnection...they can hang banners and plaques dedicated to famous St. Louis soccer players - all along their corridor of 8' security fences and retaining walls...

^ Sounds classy!

I hope it's not truly fencing...clearly they want to put something along the fields, but I wish it was something like plexiglass that's less obvious.  It will be interesting to see if they can at least make this look OK.

Is there a reason this thread is called MLS Stadium and District? 

What district is being referred to? I get that there is or was a single HQ building planned as well as some soccer fields, but is it fair to say there is a district going up? Or is that just a reference to the southwest corner of DTW in general? 

wabash wrote: ↑

Oct 19, 2020

Is there a reason this thread is called MLS Stadium and District? 

What district is being referred to? I get that there is or was a single HQ building planned as well as some soccer fields, but is it fair to say there is a district going up? Or is that just a reference to the southwest corner of DTW in general? 

I think it's name this because a while back, it was hinted at that there would be an eventual district surrounding the stadium. Or at least that's what I remember. 

For now at least, the "District" is the Stadium, Practice Fields, Pavilion (used to be team HQ), and the future parking garage on the 1900 block.

wabash wrote: ↑

Oct 19, 2020

Is there a reason this thread is called MLS Stadium and District? 

What district is being referred to? I get that there is or was a single HQ building planned as well as some soccer fields, but is it fair to say there is a district going up? Or is that just a reference to the southwest corner of DTW in general? 

Yeah, what Chris said. I added that to encompass the whole South of Market area, the supposedly year-round portions of the stadium, plus whatever else the team owners or others cook up around the perimeter. 

During their initial PR campaign, the owner reps made several coy mentions of an entertainment "District" around and including the stadium itself, without ever being very specific. The one thing specifically mentioned was that portions of the stadium would have potential year-round uses beyond soccer games. From the architectural drawings, it appears some of that has gone away, but maybe it will be incorporated into future development.

It's still 2 1/2 years before any MLS games will be played here, so there is plenty of time for something approximating a District to begin to take shape...even if it's just some additional investment by Schlafly, Drury, and/or LHM/Union Station.

^ Not quite as bad as I was picturing, but still not ideal.  Thanks for the pics...fingers crossed on the skewers. 

I’ve been inside of European soccer stadiums that have that type of fencing to a) keep fans off the pitch
B) to keep opposing fans from a bloodbaths in the stands.   Wild times in Eastern Europe*.  Although these are also common in Spain


I was at a Dinamo Zagreb vs Hajduk Rijeka came in 2017 with my cousin who lives in Zagreb and before we went to the game be said if we get split up just swing at whatever comes your way and I’m like “what now? I thought we were going to a soccer game”. He said yeah we are.....

^To be fair, that just looks like every fence in England these days. This is the sad sad way we are going. More and taller fences with anti-climb paint and pedestrian spikes on top. (Or on the sides pointing down to keep you from shimmying up the pole. In spite of which people manage to do it anyway, I gather. From every Urb-Ex video out of Europe.)

At least we haven't yet sucumed to those walls that are designed to deflect urine back at the perpetrator.

^ right, they’ll have netting for that, these skewers tho arent to pop balls on the way to the road

gone corporate wrote: ↑

Oct 22, 2020

Everyone, let's remember that ball fields next to vehicle roads have to have some sort of barrier to reasonably prevent balls that go into the streets and cause collisions. Not having a viable barrier, whether a fence or a wall, is an obvious high dollar liability, perhaps against the team, its ownership, the League, and the City. Better to have a fence around the field than a wall that no one can see into. Plus, if they're going to have professional athletes on the field, it'd be good to make sure crazies don't run after them. Even worse, you don't want to have it so children playing on the field could be at risk of a crazy running at them. The spikes on the top are arguably quite reasonable. 

This is about legal liabilities and the risks of lawsuits by an overly litigious society. I'm sure better ideas would be welcomed, but I sure can't think of any. 

It's not really a liability issue.  If a soccer ball bounces into the street or off of your car, and that causes you to plow into someone, then you are as much at fault as anyone else (comparative negligence). The only exception in that scenario would be if the ball hit with such force as to shatter your windshield or otherwise make your car undrivable, which then caused an accident...

Other exceptions would be negligence on the part of the facility, such as placing a golf tee adjacent and parallel to a public street, or on the part of an employee, deliberately kicking a ball at a passing car, for example.

Sports facilities are pretty well protected against this type of liability, for good reason. Most communities and schools would have to shut them down otherwise.

Well, that's mostly true.  CITY SC would need to take reasonable precautions to stop soccer balls from entering the roadway.  If there was enough distance between the goal and the road, so that balls would almost never go over the fence then they'd be protected.  Or if they did install tall net backdrops to stop balls that would also work.  But if they put a goal right up to the property line and expect soccer balls to routinely enter the roadway then they'd be negligent.

Any school or park that puts a ball field directly abutting a road, where there's a soccer goal or something that doesn't have some protection to keep balls from entering the road most likely would be liable for accidents caused by balls hitting cars that drove by.  Most parks have some barrier or built in distance between the road where balls have more time to land or stop rolling where this isn't an issue.

Laife Fulk wrote: ↑

Oct 25, 2020

Well, that's mostly true.  CITY SC would need to take reasonable precautions to stop soccer balls from entering the roadway.  If there was enough distance between the goal and the road, so that balls would almost never go over the fence then they'd be protected.  Or if they did install tall net backdrops to stop balls that would also work.  But if they put a goal right up to the property line and expect soccer balls to routinely enter the roadway then they'd be negligent.

Any school or park that puts a ball field directly abutting a road, where there's a soccer goal or something that doesn't have some protection to keep balls from entering the road most likely would be liable for accidents caused by balls hitting cars that drove by.  Most parks have some barrier or built in distance between the road where balls have more time to land or stop rolling where this isn't an issue.

Both 22nd Street and Clark Ave. would have goals right next to them. Clark also runs directly adjacent to Pitch 3. The bike trail may provide a small buffer, but 21st St. runs adjacent to two full pitches, lengthwise, and like Clark, will regularly see escaping balls, 8' security fence or no. The only thing that's going to prevent that is 20'+ netting the full length of all the pitches.

Sports facility owners have a duty to take reasonable precautions to prevent injury or property damage. I don't see a bouncing or falling soccer ball reasonably being the sole cause of either. Of course a jury may disagree, but the precedent on driver fault is pretty clear. Anyway, if accidents were really a concern, then that could be mitigated with a few simple (and far cheaper) caution signs.

Now the goals will certainly have temporary netting behind them when in use. But I'd say that's more about limiting the much riskier prospect of having interns running down the street chasing loose balls every few minutes...

Don't know how I missed this.
$205.6M building permit application submitted on Oct 7th.

urbanitas wrote: ↑

Sep 29, 2020

Stadium and training facility construction photos, updated thrice-weekly:

Stadium

Training Facility

The Anthem Lot is dead! Long live the Anthem Lot! 



(You can just barely make out the new lot on the right edge of the photo)

I'll pour one out for all the spaces we lost.