As an atheist and a lover of all things medieval/medieval fantasy, it should stay. I'm thoroughly entertained by looking at that statue every time I visit SLAM
That's because only an extreme fringe is actually engaging on the other side of this debate. Most people (who are moderate) are probably "meh" or entertained by all of this.dbInSouthCity wrote: ↑Jul 01, 2020As a Muslim, I take no offense to the statue or the name nor do I care if it stays or goes but the reasons people give as to why it should stay are 10 times dumber than the reason it should go.
Yes, great point. Nothing changes.ricke002 wrote: ↑Jul 01, 2020And? Does the fun at the park change? Education within the school building change? People moving to other cities/states/countries?urbanitas wrote: ↑Jun 30, 2020How many famous historical figures would be acceptable once the Twitterverse is "informed" of their misdeeds: explorers, artists, writers, scientists, religious figures, politicians? Just about every statue, and every park, school, building, city, state, or country, named after a person, have to be changed.
Did fewer people attend events after the change of the Kiel Center/Scottrade/Savis? Did the events within lose their appeal?
If this was really about people offended by names and statues, then at some point we would remove every last one, maps would be completely revised, and every street and park would be renamed something innocuous like Whispering Pines View Place. Eventually, life would go on.
Meanwhile, however, it would create artificial divisions and never-ending rallies, turmoil and fury, as each and every offensive name and likeness is argued over, and rooted out, one by one. Inevitably somewhere, things will get out of control, and people will die. And it all will cost a great deal of time and money, and solve absolutely zero problems...
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^To you, nothing changes. Same for me. What a great spot to be in. Things that may create negative feelings in others don't create those same feelings in us, so why should we care? Solid way to look at things.
New York Post-Trump urges Missouri Gov. Mike Parson not to rename St. Louis
https://nypost.com/2020/07/07/trump-urg ... -st-louis/
https://nypost.com/2020/07/07/trump-urg ... -st-louis/
His name is actually Jim Hoft, AKA the Dumbest Man on the Internet (do a Google search for "dumbest man on the internet" and he's in all of the top results). And he has a frighteningly large amount of influence on our national political discourse - his blog gets over a million hits a day. Trump gave him a seat in the WH press briefing room... here he is flaunting his white nationalist cred behind the very same podium where Sean Spicer, Sarah Huckabee Sanders, and Kayleigh McEnany have been routinely lying to America for the past 3.5 years, alongside his young twink protégé Lucian Wintrich (to be clear, Wintrich refers to himself as a twink, and both he and Hoft are openly gay).dbInSouthCity wrote: ↑Jun 26, 2020^ I think a group of white nationalist is planning a rally at the statue and Umar being Umar is doing some button pushing. The rally is lead by local idiot Jim Hoft of the gateway pundit
That was a made up white supremacist gesture that the white supremacists adopted, correct?
Is that different from an OK gesture or the same?
Is that different from an OK gesture or the same?
It's the same. I don't know exactly when white nationalists appropriated what used to be a completely innocuous hand gesture (at least in America), but it appears to have been roughly around the time our current president rose to power.quincunx wrote: ↑Jul 10, 2020That was a made up white supremacist gesture that the white supremacists adopted, correct?
Is that different from an OK gesture or the same?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OK_gestur ... wer_symbol
Maybe Panera bread-sliced bagels?gary kreie wrote: ↑Jun 30, 2020St. Louis bread-sliced bagels becomes Pain Court bread-sliced bagels?
President Lee? I think you're confusing him with Jefferson Davis, another traitor who betrayed his country in defense of slavery.ricke002 wrote: ↑Jun 24, 2020"No, we totally disown what Adolf did later, but we do think he was a good painter, that's why we put up the statue" is the same argument to be made as "Lt. Lee did some good stuff, but President Lee was bad. This statue is of Lt. Lee"sc4mayor wrote: ↑Jun 24, 2020^ Pretty sure that was a Hitler reference. He was famously (infamously?) in love with German Shepard's and often painted them. What that has to do with Lee and his work for the Army Corps before he turned traitor is beyond me, however.
Or maybe it's just par for the course in today's awful world of internet commentary.
I'm guessing Temple University revoked Bill Cosby's honorary PhD not because they suddenly found his humor unfunny, but for some of his other indiscretions.
Woah, I just learned something new. I always assumed it came from the Spanish "del mar", meaning "of the sea". Yeah, I know it doesn't really make sense for a street in a city in the middle of the country hundreds of miles from any body of water close to the size of a sea.gary kreie wrote: ↑Jun 24, 2020I understand DelMar is named after the states Delaware and Maryland because the farms on either side of the street were owned by men from each of those states.
You might be able to throw in Walt Disney, too, though the allegations of antisemitism against him are a little more vague.sc4mayor wrote: ↑Jun 22, 2020I do wonder how long it’ll be before anything named after Charles Lindbergh ends up on the chopping block though...McClellan only made a passing reference to his affinity for Nazi eugenics ideals and a case could probably be made he was a pretty big anti-Semite, though not to the extent that say Henry Ford was, despite them being close friends and sharing many of the same ideals.
^ I don’t about you, but I’ve always known that Walt Disney was a pretty well know racist and anti-Semite. Maybe more vague than Henry Ford but that’s not exactly a high bar to clear.
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Whoops. Yep. I guess we need more statues of Lee since I can't remember who he was.DTGstl314 wrote: ↑Jul 10, 2020President Lee? I think you're confusing him with Jefferson Davis, another traitor who betrayed his country in defense of slavery.ricke002 wrote: ↑Jun 24, 2020"No, we totally disown what Adolf did later, but we do think he was a good painter, that's why we put up the statue" is the same argument to be made as "Lt. Lee did some good stuff, but President Lee was bad. This statue is of Lt. Lee"sc4mayor wrote: ↑Jun 24, 2020^ Pretty sure that was a Hitler reference. He was famously (infamously?) in love with German Shepard's and often painted them. What that has to do with Lee and his work for the Army Corps before he turned traitor is beyond me, however.
Or maybe it's just par for the course in today's awful world of internet commentary.
I'm guessing Temple University revoked Bill Cosby's honorary PhD not because they suddenly found his humor unfunny, but for some of his other indiscretions.
Yeah, that's exactly the point I was trying to make.ricke002 wrote: ↑Jul 12, 2020Whoops. Yep. I guess we need more statues of Lee since I can't remember who he was.DTGstl314 wrote: ↑Jul 10, 2020President Lee? I think you're confusing him with Jefferson Davis, another traitor who betrayed his country in defense of slavery.ricke002 wrote: ↑Jun 24, 2020"No, we totally disown what Adolf did later, but we do think he was a good painter, that's why we put up the statue" is the same argument to be made as "Lt. Lee did some good stuff, but President Lee was bad. This statue is of Lt. Lee"
I'm guessing Temple University revoked Bill Cosby's honorary PhD not because they suddenly found his humor unfunny, but for some of his other indiscretions.
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Since everybody else is throwing ideas out. .
St. Louis secedes from Missouri to join Southern Illinois, which is subsequently granted statehood and officially recognized as "Little Egypt".
(St. Louis, LE)
A giant steel and glass Pyramid ala the Louvre is erected on the East St. Louis Riverfront.
The glass pyramid is modeled after, and in tribute to, the ones built by the area's first civilization.
The Old Courthouse becomes the state capital.
St. Louis secedes from Missouri to join Southern Illinois, which is subsequently granted statehood and officially recognized as "Little Egypt".
(St. Louis, LE)
A giant steel and glass Pyramid ala the Louvre is erected on the East St. Louis Riverfront.
The glass pyramid is modeled after, and in tribute to, the ones built by the area's first civilization.
The Old Courthouse becomes the state capital.
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I live in SoIL, and I could not like this idea more. STL plus everything south of Springfield.9ine Runner wrote: ↑Jul 16, 2020Since everybody else is throwing ideas out. .
St. Louis secedes from Missouri to join Southern Illinois, which is subsequently granted statehood and officially recognized as "Little Egypt".
(St. Louis, LE)
A giant steel and glass Pyramid ala the Louvre is erected on the East St. Louis Riverfront.
The glass pyramid is modeled after, and in tribute to, the ones built by the area's first civilization.
The Old Courthouse becomes the state capital.
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How would this be any different than STL being in MO? Without KC, it would be even more of a rural/urban divide. In addition to STL & KS, MO at least has Springfield & Columbia as "big" cities. This proposal would have Springfield, IL (sans any capital economy, as that got moved to STL) and then what? Carbondale? Decatur (Depending on how the line is drawn)? Not exactly urban paradises.stladvocate wrote: ↑Jul 17, 2020I live in SoIL, and I could not like this idea more. STL plus everything south of Springfield.9ine Runner wrote: ↑Jul 16, 2020Since everybody else is throwing ideas out. .
St. Louis secedes from Missouri to join Southern Illinois, which is subsequently granted statehood and officially recognized as "Little Egypt".
(St. Louis, LE)
A giant steel and glass Pyramid ala the Louvre is erected on the East St. Louis Riverfront.
The glass pyramid is modeled after, and in tribute to, the ones built by the area's first civilization.
The Old Courthouse becomes the state capital.
Statehood for DC
^ Yeah...Missouri couldn’t care less about its urban areas...Illinois may put a huge focus on Chicago...but St. Louis would get far more attention from the Illinois Legislature than those jackals in Jeff City. Plus Illinois’ Capitol is made up of mostly Democrats instead of rural republicans. Even if the downstaters are similar in political make up.
Edit: Now realizing the original proposed called for splitting Southern Illinois into its own state...that doesn’t make any sense. But the rest doesn’t sound to bad to me lol.
Edit: Now realizing the original proposed called for splitting Southern Illinois into its own state...that doesn’t make any sense. But the rest doesn’t sound to bad to me lol.
^ Yeah City St. Louis with current Illinois is a fun thought experiment. They’d let us build tolls on 270, 44, 55, 70. Weed would be legal and making bank. Medicare. Transit funding. University of Illinois - St. Louis.
High taxes.
High taxes.
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It already exists in Memphis. They used to host NBA games there; today, it's a Bass Pro Shop.9ine Runner wrote: ↑Jul 16, 2020Since everybody else is throwing ideas out. .
St. Louis secedes from Missouri to join Southern Illinois, which is subsequently granted statehood and officially recognized as "Little Egypt".
(St. Louis, LE)
A giant steel and glass Pyramid ala the Louvre is erected on the East St. Louis Riverfront.
The glass pyramid is modeled after, and in tribute to, the ones built by the area's first civilization.
The Old Courthouse becomes the state capital.
Remember, Memphis is the original City of the Pharaohs. Not even Cairo, IL has a claim to the Egyptian pyramids like Memphis does.
Cahokian mounds have much more in common with Mezoamerican pyramids, anyways. Consider the Zapotec city of Monte Alban in Oaxaca if we want to copy anyone. Then again, I'm not really sure how many around here can properly enunciate Oaxaca...
I remain very much against the idea of renaming Saint Louis and think this whole thing's ridiculous.
That said, I'm absolutely surprised no one's proffered up Osage yet.
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. .Yeah. I was using the term pyramid loosely. I said it would be modeled after the ones built here.gone corporate wrote: ↑Jul 17, 2020It already exists in Memphis. They used to host NBA games there; today, it's a Bass Pro Shop.9ine Runner wrote: ↑Jul 16, 2020Since everybody else is throwing ideas out. .
St. Louis secedes from Missouri to join Southern Illinois, which is subsequently granted statehood and officially recognized as "Little Egypt".
(St. Louis, LE)
A giant steel and glass Pyramid ala the Louvre is erected on the East St. Louis Riverfront.
The glass pyramid is modeled after, and in tribute to, the ones built by the area's first civilization.
The Old Courthouse becomes the state capital.
Remember, Memphis is the original City of the Pharaohs. Not even Cairo, IL has a claim to the Egyptian pyramids like Memphis does.
Cahokian mounds have much more in common with Mezoamerican pyramids, anyways. Consider the Zapotec city of Monte Alban in Oaxaca if we want to copy anyone. Then again, I'm not really sure how many around here can properly enunciate Oaxaca...
I remain very much against the idea of renaming Saint Louis and think this whole thing's ridiculous.
That said, I'm absolutely surprised no one's proffered up Osage yet.
I certainly wasn't suggesting that it look like the pyramids in Egypt or the Louvre - only that it would be made of glass and steel.
The Mezoamerican pyramids are the right idea. Flat, tiered-terraces. It's been about 15 years since I've taken a course on Oaxacan culture so I guess that just slipped my mind.
Are you suggesting "Little Oaxaca"? Southern Illinois has been historically nicknamed Little Egypt and I believe it actually predates the founding of Memphis.
Eh, my thinking was St. Louis would be the seat of the state and would take more interest in developing East St. Louis than Illinois does at the moment, not being in the shadow of Chicago.sc4mayor wrote: ↑Jul 17, 2020^ Yeah...Missouri couldn’t care less about its urban areas...Illinois may put a huge focus on Chicago...but St. Louis would get far more attention from the Illinois Legislature than those jackals in Jeff City. Plus Illinois’ Capitol is made up of mostly Democrats instead of rural republicans. Even if the downstaters are similar in political make up.
Edit: Now realizing the original proposed called for splitting Southern Illinois into its own state...that doesn’t make any sense. But the rest doesn’t sound to bad to me lol.
Also by St. Louis, I meant the City and County, with the idea that the county would be enough to make it a blue state.
Oh well, just having some fun.