The latter is going to be a bit harder to pull down though.SeattleNative wrote: ↑Jun 22, 2020Yes, I’d assume that the same line of thinking for renaming (and apparently now decanonizing - which is unprecedented) Saint Louis would also apply to anything arch related.moorlander wrote:SeattleNative wrote: What would you say to those who claim the arch is a monument to genocide and manifest destiny?
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After the Blues won the Stanley Cup, there was a crowd trying to push the arch into the Mississippi. Didn’t quite work.urbanitas wrote:The latter is going to be a bit harder to pull down though.SeattleNative wrote: ↑Jun 22, 2020Yes, I’d assume that the same line of thinking for renaming (and apparently now decanonizing - which is unprecedented) Saint Louis would also apply to anything arch related.moorlander wrote:
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Lee was the chief engineer / commanding officer on the dredging of the river through downtown in the 1830s or 40s to straighten and deepen the steamboat port, and the grading and construction of the riverfront levee (all those paving stones).symphonicpoet wrote: ↑Jun 23, 2020There is or was a small plaque to Lee on the riverfront. He apparently did a tour with the Army Corps of Engineers before breaking his oath and turning traitor. I could easily see kicking that over and using it as a paving stone. Or maybe a toilet seat in a public outhouse. We could use a few of those, really.
I know of some German Shepard paintings you might be interested inframer wrote: ↑Jun 23, 2020Lee basically saved the St. Louis riverfront. The Mississippi was on the verge of changing course, and would have left Downtown high and dry.
Aren’t there enough folks right here at home who have been victims of police brutality that we could memorialize instead?quincunx wrote:There's an effort afoot to rename Delmar Blvd George Floyd Blvd.
The false equivalency of owning fellow human beings and using a plastic bottle is pretty good. Nice job!gary kreie wrote: ↑Jun 24, 2020Is it risky to name any street going forward after humans? We can't guess what things we are doing now will be disqualifying to future generations. How many of you have eaten fellow mammals? Or allowed yourself to be photoed drinking water from a plastic bottle.
I did NOT say that at all and I resent your interpretation. I asked a few questions, and mentioned, light-heartedly, a couple of things that our grandkids might find less than exemplary about our generation years from now -- when all meat is plant-base, say, and slaughtering large defenseless mammals for a fricking hamburger is considered uncivilized.ricke002 wrote: ↑Jun 24, 2020The false equivalency of owning fellow human beings and using a plastic bottle is pretty good. Nice job!gary kreie wrote: ↑Jun 24, 2020Is it risky to name any street going forward after humans? We can't guess what things we are doing now will be disqualifying to future generations. How many of you have eaten fellow mammals? Or allowed yourself to be photoed drinking water from a plastic bottle.
"No, we totally disown what Adolf did later, but we do think he was a good painter, that's why we put up the statue" is the same argument to be made as "Lt. Lee did some good stuff, but President Lee was bad. This statue is of Lt. Lee"sc4mayor wrote: ↑Jun 24, 2020^ Pretty sure that was a Hitler reference. He was famously (infamously?) in love with German Shepard's and often painted them. What that has to do with Lee and his work for the Army Corps before he turned traitor is beyond me, however.
Or maybe it's just par for the course in today's awful world of internet commentary.
Whatever the intent was/is, you equated slavery with eating a cheeseburger. And guess what, in 100 years, maybe carnivores will be thought of as out of touch dillwads. That's fine. If you're worried about your legacy that much, write down all of your stances on all issues, so that future generations will know exactly how you feel about any particular topic. And in 200 years, maybe slavery will be looked upon as acceptable again and they can throw monuments up to slaveholders again. As it stands now, we seem to be on the side of "slavery = bad so we shouldn't glorify those who thought otherwise"gary kreie wrote: ↑Jun 24, 2020I did NOT say that at all and I resent your interpretation. I asked a few questions, and mentioned, light-heartedly, a couple of things that our grandkids might find less than exemplary about our generation years from now -- when all meat is plant-base, say, and slaughtering large defenseless mammals for a fricking hamburger is considered uncivilized.ricke002 wrote: ↑Jun 24, 2020The false equivalency of owning fellow human beings and using a plastic bottle is pretty good. Nice job!gary kreie wrote: ↑Jun 24, 2020Is it risky to name any street going forward after humans? We can't guess what things we are doing now will be disqualifying to future generations. How many of you have eaten fellow mammals? Or allowed yourself to be photoed drinking water from a plastic bottle.
Your answer to my first question is clearly - no, it is not risky to name streets after current heroes. That's fine. You agree with folks of the past who believed there was no risk in naming streets after the heroes of the time. The jury is still out on that question for me in light of recent statue topplings.
I agree with this.sc4mayor wrote: ↑Jun 24, 2020Lee did fix the waterfront. He doesn't deserve to be honored for it, he doesn't deserve any statues or memorials either.
It's a leprechaun, which is mythical.framer wrote: ↑Jun 24, 2020BTW, I'm highly offended by ricke002's avatar, which perpetuates the hateful stereotype of all Irishmen being drunken street fighters, and I demand that it be removed and replaced with an image of a cute, harmless puppy (from a thoroughly vetted and approved rescue organization, of course).
