Kind of like how Busch Stadium and the Dome have no empty lots around them.sc4mayor wrote: ↑Nov 08, 2019^ Obviously the hope is that all those empty lots surrounding the stadium site will eventually fill in with new development,
oh wait.
oh wait.
Appreciate the snark...but hope was the key word there.
I don't think I've ever used either of those exits / on-ramps in three decades of living, visiting, and driving around downtown. What a complete waste of money and space.symphonicpoet wrote: ↑Nov 08, 2019^I don't use that exit much, so I quite forgot it went under Market. I was assuming you'd have to dig a tunnel to get it from one side to the other. BlackAltisima pointed out the bridge and cleared me up. Mea culpa.
But this is the voluminous space I mentioned between the new stadium and garage / practice fields:
Under Market - Looking West
Looking South from roughly where the lower concourse of the new soccer stadium will be, towards the future garage / practice fields.
And BTW, that overpass is looking pretty rough, especially on the south side - lots of exposed reinforcing. They will have to do quite a bit of repair to this overpass before they build against it, in addition to removing ramps, barriers, guardrails, rebuilding sidewalks and curbs, etc.
You forgot one. ...and Enterprise Center.
^^ urbanitas, not sure how much of that infrastructure going to be left in place once they follow through with demo of the existing truncated parkway and rebuild the interchange to Jefferson Ave.
I also understand but maybe mistaken that the new stadium will incorporate some underground parking which makes some sense in construction from dirt work/earth work perspective to dig it over here and fill over there so you don't have to spend the extra money to send it down the highway and pay someone to take it. I think the current sunken parkway lends itself to some cut and fill to incorporate underground parking at a much better cost basis.
West downtown will be one huge construction site between New MLS stadium, practive fields, old 22nd parkway demo, interchange rebuild, Jeff Ave street improvements and the Jefferson/Mid Connector development project if they can break ground on the hotel and retial phase next year. Not sure how much overlaps but assume a lot of it will if the stadium can break ground over the winter.
I also understand but maybe mistaken that the new stadium will incorporate some underground parking which makes some sense in construction from dirt work/earth work perspective to dig it over here and fill over there so you don't have to spend the extra money to send it down the highway and pay someone to take it. I think the current sunken parkway lends itself to some cut and fill to incorporate underground parking at a much better cost basis.
West downtown will be one huge construction site between New MLS stadium, practive fields, old 22nd parkway demo, interchange rebuild, Jeff Ave street improvements and the Jefferson/Mid Connector development project if they can break ground on the hotel and retial phase next year. Not sure how much overlaps but assume a lot of it will if the stadium can break ground over the winter.
The infrastructure that you see in those Streetview images is Market Street, or rather the underside of it, and the piers that support it. That isn't going anywhere for awhile.dredger wrote: ↑Nov 09, 2019^^ urbanitas, not sure how much of that infrastructure going to be left in place once they follow through with demo of the existing truncated parkway and rebuild the interchange to Jefferson Ave.
I also understand but maybe mistaken that the new stadium will incorporate some underground parking which makes some sense in construction from dirt work/earth work perspective to dig it over here and fill over there so you don't have to spend the extra money to send it down the highway and pay someone to take it. I think the current sunken parkway lends itself to some cut and fill to incorporate underground parking at a much better cost basis.
And the proposed underground parking garage is not really underground. It is just a large one or two level garage being built in the sunken parkway you mentioned, so it shouldn't require much extra excavation at all, but yes there will be a lot of dirt pushed around on this site. I think that whatever extra soil there is will be pushed south to increase the elevation of the property south of Clark, to be closer to that of 22nd Street.
Looking at Nashville and Inter Miami stadiums we are doing pretty good -
Nashville is going to be bigger (25,000) - but is pretty uninspired - looks adjacent but not connected to downtown, all in all pretty blah, cost is about the same as ours.
https://www.nashvillesc.com/news_article/show/1043549
Miami is going to be a crazy future spaceship with adjacent fields, a park and Ballpark Village type shopping strip. It will blow you away and it should the whole plan is 1 billion. Honestly the whole thing just seems too much
https://www.intermiamicf.com/en/club/fa ... eedom-park
The Sac stadium looks pretty nice - very comparable to ours
https://www.mls2sac.com/railyards-stadium/
All in all I would take what we are getting over all these (though Sac is about a wash) the new stadium as presented at this time is elegant and graceful which are words not often associated with stadiums. Modern and respectful of context and seemingly more versatile then anything out there or proposed.
We will see how it evolves
Nashville is going to be bigger (25,000) - but is pretty uninspired - looks adjacent but not connected to downtown, all in all pretty blah, cost is about the same as ours.
https://www.nashvillesc.com/news_article/show/1043549
Miami is going to be a crazy future spaceship with adjacent fields, a park and Ballpark Village type shopping strip. It will blow you away and it should the whole plan is 1 billion. Honestly the whole thing just seems too much
https://www.intermiamicf.com/en/club/fa ... eedom-park
The Sac stadium looks pretty nice - very comparable to ours
https://www.mls2sac.com/railyards-stadium/
All in all I would take what we are getting over all these (though Sac is about a wash) the new stadium as presented at this time is elegant and graceful which are words not often associated with stadiums. Modern and respectful of context and seemingly more versatile then anything out there or proposed.
We will see how it evolves
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I do like the Sacramento one, but the Miami one seems like an absolutely abysmal site, completely surrounded by highways, parking, and industry save for that one side that's past the park and across the stroad. On the plus side, it'd be a great place to plane watch if the game sucks, what with the airport across the highway. Not a terrible design, maybe. Very Florida. But absolutely awful site. Nashville is . . . blah . . . Nashville. Yeah, it looks more than a touch isolated from everything. You can see downtown, but I wouldn't want to walk there from the stadium. But Sacramento, that's nice. Here's to hoping ours fulfills its promise. All in all it's growing on me. Good site. Decent plan. There's a lot to recommend it.
Interesting to see that Miami expects to be playing games at sunrise. But you do you, Miami.
^^ I assume that Miami and Nashville have a lot do about land values vs. St. Louis & Sac having land values not nearly as expensive and availability on downtown doorsteps
I'm assuming a lot of pro sports stadiums going forward will have some type of real estate, or village concept going forward as their is money to made and in part accounts for less public funding involved. So like Miami you get these all inclusive proposals as the owners and developers don't want you to interact outside of their village. Another way to put, surrounding themselves with freeways, industry and barriers is partly by design
I'm assuming a lot of pro sports stadiums going forward will have some type of real estate, or village concept going forward as their is money to made and in part accounts for less public funding involved. So like Miami you get these all inclusive proposals as the owners and developers don't want you to interact outside of their village. Another way to put, surrounding themselves with freeways, industry and barriers is partly by design
100% agree. A lot to like about the Sacramento plan (I did a little exploring around downtown Sacramento on Google earth, pretty neat little downtown, tbh). Miami feels extremely Miami to me. The stadium looks cool, but it's kind of an isolated development next to the airport sandwiched between two massive highway interchanges. Nashville's looks terrible in my opinion, not only being a little further from downtown but the design leaves a lot to be desired (I feel the same about Austin's forthcoming stadium as well). Dredger makes an excellent point that land values in Downtown Miami and Nashville could be driving those decisions. We definitely don't have those problems in St. Louis.symphonicpoet wrote: ↑Nov 12, 2019I do like the Sacramento one, but the Miami one seems like an absolutely abysmal site, completely surrounded by highways, parking, and industry save for that one side that's past the park and across the stroad. On the plus side, it'd be a great place to plane watch if the game sucks, what with the airport across the highway. Not a terrible design, maybe. Very Florida. But absolutely awful site. Nashville is . . . blah . . . Nashville. Yeah, it looks more than a touch isolated from everything. You can see downtown, but I wouldn't want to walk there from the stadium. But Sacramento, that's nice. Here's to hoping ours fulfills its promise. All in all it's growing on me. Good site. Decent plan. There's a lot to recommend it.
The more I look at the St. Louis site plans and stadium design, the more I love it. One, ours is removing a massive and intrusive highway interchange instead of centering the stadium development around it. Two, it finally provides a nice fitting end to the Gateway Mall and I think the somewhat classical design compliments the other large landmark buildings along the Mall too. Three, the team HQ will be across the street (I'm perfectly OK with the practice fields...but I still would have like to have seen a little more urbanity there instead, minor nitpick though). I could list a bunch of other things too, but don't want to ramble too much lol. Either way, compared to what I've seen from other city's proposed (and some existing) stadiums, I think St. Louis is well ahead of the pack.
Nashville's stadium is pitiful and ugly.
As for STL... I have to (as all of you will most likely agree) that all of our stadium have remained downtown throughout the years. Busch, Dome, Enterprise and now MLS. Chafeitz Arena is also in midtown. That being said, the commitment of our team owners and stadium investors - they have kept their stadiums in the city. It is connected by the center of the entire Metropolitan Area and has easy METRO rail connections at all. Many cities have moved their stadiums too far out from the city centers (for cheaper land and or population demos and/or concentration). Happy our city / downtown has retained all.
As for STL... I have to (as all of you will most likely agree) that all of our stadium have remained downtown throughout the years. Busch, Dome, Enterprise and now MLS. Chafeitz Arena is also in midtown. That being said, the commitment of our team owners and stadium investors - they have kept their stadiums in the city. It is connected by the center of the entire Metropolitan Area and has easy METRO rail connections at all. Many cities have moved their stadiums too far out from the city centers (for cheaper land and or population demos and/or concentration). Happy our city / downtown has retained all.
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re: nashville...wow.
NASHVILLE, TN – It’s only a matter of time before the MLS soccer stadium contracts will be voided and put out to bid again. Whether Metro or Nashville SC will suggest another site for soccer instead of the Fairgrounds is unclear.
In court documents, Metro lawyers admitted for the first time last week that the evaluation committees for the stadium contracts were stacked with people who had a vested interest in the outcome. That is a violation of state law and the city’s Procurement rules.
...
On August 16, 2018, the Fair Board voted unanimously to give billionaire John Ingram 10 acres of the Fairgrounds to privately develop as a sweetener in a deal that has since gone sour.
https://tntribune.com/community/local/n ... made-them/
NASHVILLE, TN – It’s only a matter of time before the MLS soccer stadium contracts will be voided and put out to bid again. Whether Metro or Nashville SC will suggest another site for soccer instead of the Fairgrounds is unclear.
In court documents, Metro lawyers admitted for the first time last week that the evaluation committees for the stadium contracts were stacked with people who had a vested interest in the outcome. That is a violation of state law and the city’s Procurement rules.
...
On August 16, 2018, the Fair Board voted unanimously to give billionaire John Ingram 10 acres of the Fairgrounds to privately develop as a sweetener in a deal that has since gone sour.
https://tntribune.com/community/local/n ... made-them/
Not gonna lie, this might be the coolest stadium LED videoboard I've ever seen...beer city wrote: ↑Nov 11, 2019Miami is going to be a crazy future spaceship with adjacent fields, a park and Ballpark Village type shopping strip. It will blow you away and it should the whole plan is 1 billion. Honestly the whole thing just seems too much
https://www.intermiamicf.com/en/club/fa ... eedom-park
The Miami MLS site plan feels eerily similar to Kroenke's $5 billion site plan for SoFi Stadium in Inglewood, even down to the close proximity of a major international airport...symphonicpoet wrote: ↑Nov 12, 2019I do like the Sacramento one, but the Miami one seems like an absolutely abysmal site, completely surrounded by highways, parking, and industry save for that one side that's past the park and across the stroad. On the plus side, it'd be a great place to plane watch if the game sucks, what with the airport across the highway. Not a terrible design, maybe. Very Florida. But absolutely awful site. Nashville is . . . blah . . . Nashville. Yeah, it looks more than a touch isolated from everything. You can see downtown, but I wouldn't want to walk there from the stadium. But Sacramento, that's nice. Here's to hoping ours fulfills its promise. All in all it's growing on me. Good site. Decent plan. There's a lot to recommend it.
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Rams stadium looks pretty conventional inside the no-tip fancy doggy bowl skirt. Are they still planning on putting a fixed greenhouse clear plastic roof over the field? Due to the weather? In LA?
If I were the NFL, I would re-name the Chargers the San Diego Chargers when they play in this stadium. The drive up from San Diego on a Sunday morning isn't much further than the drive from Milwaukee to Green Bay, or from St. Louis to our nearest Div I football in Columbia.
Sports Illustrated says the cost of the Rams stadium will now top $5 billion. Mercedes Benz stadium in Atlanta was $1.6 billion. Minneapolis new stadium cost was about $1.1 billion. The NFL & owner could have easily built THREE new Atlanta Mercedes Benz Stadiums for the cost of this one new stadium in LA.
If I were the NFL, I would re-name the Chargers the San Diego Chargers when they play in this stadium. The drive up from San Diego on a Sunday morning isn't much further than the drive from Milwaukee to Green Bay, or from St. Louis to our nearest Div I football in Columbia.
Sports Illustrated says the cost of the Rams stadium will now top $5 billion. Mercedes Benz stadium in Atlanta was $1.6 billion. Minneapolis new stadium cost was about $1.1 billion. The NFL & owner could have easily built THREE new Atlanta Mercedes Benz Stadiums for the cost of this one new stadium in LA.
You have to wonder how they get over +5 billion for an open stadium. I understand construction in Cali is becoming hugely expensive and sure that LA can't be that far behind San Fran which is one of the most expensive places to build in the world. But again, +5 billion. What are they spending the money on and will it be truly different from recent stadium builds? Other then the canopy thing extended out past the stadium.
I had a chance to go on a 49ers Levi stadium tour after it was built. A lot of nice features between the home & Visting as well as cheerleader locker rooms, training rooms, club houses, presses boxes etc. But it was still a big concrete bowl with a field in the middle with lot of seating that doesn't differ from a stadium of that size.
I had a chance to go on a 49ers Levi stadium tour after it was built. A lot of nice features between the home & Visting as well as cheerleader locker rooms, training rooms, club houses, presses boxes etc. But it was still a big concrete bowl with a field in the middle with lot of seating that doesn't differ from a stadium of that size.
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I assume making it earthquake proof is expensive. And is the surrounding "village" included in the $5b sum?dredger wrote: ↑Nov 14, 2019You have to wonder how they get over +5 billion for an open stadium. I understand construction in Cali is becoming hugely expensive and sure that LA can't be that far behind San Fran which is one of the most expensive places to build in the world. But again, +5 billion. What are they spending the money on and will it be truly different from recent stadium builds? Other then the canopy thing extended out past the stadium.
I had a chance to go on a 49ers Levi stadium tour after it was built. A lot of nice features between the home & Visting as well as cheerleader locker rooms, training rooms, club houses, presses boxes etc. But it was still a big concrete bowl with a field in the middle with lot of seating that doesn't differ from a stadium of that size.
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Former STLan, living about five miles from Kroenke Stadium -- a couple of reasons it's super expensive, although I am anything but a construction expert --
-- is dug very deep into the ground. It's height-limited because it's directly under final approach to LAX
-- land is super expensive
-- it's a lot more than just a stadium. Also connected developments on the property for new NFL west HQ, theatre, housing, etc. etc. It's a giant project. I don't know how much of that, if any, is included in the $5 billion future.
-- is dug very deep into the ground. It's height-limited because it's directly under final approach to LAX
-- land is super expensive
-- it's a lot more than just a stadium. Also connected developments on the property for new NFL west HQ, theatre, housing, etc. etc. It's a giant project. I don't know how much of that, if any, is included in the $5 billion future.
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^Ooh, I think I have the perfect name for the thing: The Kranky Bowl at Stank Field.
So, I guess the buildings along the bottom, across the pond from the stadium, are the Super-Duper Wal-Mart flagship store, strip retail center, and the Wal-Mart theme park?DTGstl314 wrote: ↑Nov 13, 2019The Miami MLS site plan feels eerily similar to Kroenke's $5 billion site plan for SoFi Stadium in Inglewood, even down to the close proximity of a major international airport...
All of this.Johnbythesea wrote: ↑Nov 14, 2019Former STLan, living about five miles from Kroenke Stadium -- a couple of reasons it's super expensive, although I am anything but a construction expert --
-- is dug very deep into the ground. It's height-limited because it's directly under final approach to LAX
-- land is super expensive
-- it's a lot more than just a stadium. Also connected developments on the property for new NFL west HQ, theatre, housing, etc. etc. It's a giant project. I don't know how much of that, if any, is included in the $5 billion future.
Just for some perspective on how gargantuan that building actually is, the pointed section of the canopy highlighted in this photo is going to be a 6,000 seat performing arts venue - about twice the size of Stifel Theatre. It's almost certainly the largest footprint for any stadium ever built in the world. The field is extremely deep - when fans enter the stadium, they'll be on the 6th level above the field. It's also going to be the world's first stadium with absolutely no fixed signage anywhere - everything will be on LEDs.
As for how it's going to be paid for - the PSLs for the best club seats are going for $100,000 apiece ($75K apiece for Chargers season ticket holders). If you want 4 primo tickets for the inaugural season in that section, it's going to set you back $415,000 (PSL fees + ticket prices). And then going forward the seats will be $375/game each for the first 3 years. The naming rights deal with SoFi is the most expensive in history - $600 million for 20 years. Even American Airlines paid $90 million for the naming rights on the plaza area outside the stadium. I imagine it's probably also going to wind up hosting the Super Bowl more than any other stadium in the NFL, along with College Football Championships and the 2028 Olympic Games Opening and Closing Ceremonies.
According to this article, the total project cost is going to be upwards of $10 billion - the stadium and the surrounding Hollywood Park development. The entire site is more than 3 times the size of Disneyland (or about twenty five times the size of our own Ballpark Village).
https://www.wsj.com/articles/inside-the ... 1568376042
https://www.wsj.com/articles/inside-the ... 1568376042
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Can we move all the LA Stadium stuff to the Rams stadium thread?