I liked the other design better but I won't complain too much. I like that they are putting the new parking underground. There already are some garages/lots around and metro isn't all that far away so I think it should be okay.frequentflyer wrote: ↑Oct 30, 2019Anybody else think this stadium version lacks the pizzazz of the earlier versions? Also, where's the parking?
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That little beer stand at Union station is going to be busy on game days. Lot of foot traffic going through there from Metrolink.
Schalfly Tap Room probably is thrilled. And the places on Wash ave just north of it.GoHarvOrGoHome wrote: ↑Oct 30, 2019That little beer stand at Union station is going to be busy on game days
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Tough crowd here lately.
First glance, lots to like minus closing Pine. This configuration has the potential to activate a much larger portion of DTW and connect downtown and midtown. Aligning the stadium to the South of Market West of Union Station essentially removes it from the larger built street grid and limits further development. This allows for a ripple effect of development to the West, NortWest, Northeast and East (get rid of a few blocks of the mall it is too big as is.) The original positioning was boxed in by Market, Union Station, the highway, and an uninspired low rise hotel.
Parking under the practice fields is an excellent addition even if it isn't public. This has roughly the same capacity as Enterprise (slightly larger) and is blocks away. Existing garages/parking should serve just fine as well as some additional garages I would expect to be incorporated into the platforms (or hopefully basements) of future developments.
Financing and agreements with the city should be an absolute no-brainer. This is as close to a truly privately financed development as possible in modern America. Agree the "amusement tax" should be waived 100% with this being privately maintained.
Very excited about what we have seen so far.
First glance, lots to like minus closing Pine. This configuration has the potential to activate a much larger portion of DTW and connect downtown and midtown. Aligning the stadium to the South of Market West of Union Station essentially removes it from the larger built street grid and limits further development. This allows for a ripple effect of development to the West, NortWest, Northeast and East (get rid of a few blocks of the mall it is too big as is.) The original positioning was boxed in by Market, Union Station, the highway, and an uninspired low rise hotel.
Parking under the practice fields is an excellent addition even if it isn't public. This has roughly the same capacity as Enterprise (slightly larger) and is blocks away. Existing garages/parking should serve just fine as well as some additional garages I would expect to be incorporated into the platforms (or hopefully basements) of future developments.
Financing and agreements with the city should be an absolute no-brainer. This is as close to a truly privately financed development as possible in modern America. Agree the "amusement tax" should be waived 100% with this being privately maintained.
Very excited about what we have seen so far.
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I don't like the practice fields, but cleaning up the ramps there is worth it.
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Can't agree more... it really feels like they were listening. From parking, to the gateway mall, offices and practice fields in the city... and there's still tons of room for infill with this huge swath filled up.newstl2020 wrote: ↑Oct 30, 2019Tough crowd here lately.
First glance, lots to like minus closing Pine. This configuration has the potential to activate a much larger portion of DTW and connect downtown and midtown. Aligning the stadium to the South of Market West of Union Station essentially removes it from the larger built street grid and limits further development. This allows for a ripple effect of development to the West, NortWest, Northeast and East (get rid of a few blocks of the mall it is too big as is.) The original positioning was boxed in by Market, Union Station, the highway, and an uninspired low rise hotel.
Parking under the practice fields is an excellent addition even if it isn't public. This has roughly the same capacity as Enterprise (slightly larger) and is blocks away. Existing garages/parking should serve just fine as well as some additional garages I would expect to be incorporated into the platforms (or hopefully basements) of future developments.
Financing and agreements with the city should be an absolute no-brainer. This is as close to a truly privately financed development as possible in modern America. Agree the "amusement tax" should be waived 100% with this being privately maintained.
Very excited about what we have seen so far.
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Just off the cuff but any ideas with Pine closing how one gets to Hwy W/E from the stadium? Olive to Jefferson south on Jefferson to 40 interchange?
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Surprisingly few video boards, but maybe that’s the norm for soccer stadiums/soccer games? Maybe they are taking a page out of the Chaifetz Arena playbook book and putting big ones in the upper northeast and northwest corners of the stadium?
This looks fantastic. And I’m a big fan of the move north of Market. Hope this gets built.
This looks fantastic. And I’m a big fan of the move north of Market. Hope this gets built.
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I definitely agree, this update contains everything one could reasonably hope for, especially that we won't have another stadium that the City might be on the hook for in the future.
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The majority of soccer advertising takes place on video boards around the field. With far less stoppages in play there is much less emphasis on replay, etc. you need to be paying attention to the game. The newest EPL stadiums do have video boards in corners. See the below of one of the newest (Tottenham). I would expect something along these lines although a smaller scale as the below is a significantly larger stadium.wabash wrote: ↑Oct 30, 2019Surprisingly few video boards, but maybe that’s the norm for soccer stadiums/soccer games? Maybe they are taking a page out of the Chaifetz Arena playbook book and putting big ones in the upper northeast and northwest corners of the stadium?
Regarding transportation...
Only 900 additional parking spots is pretty incredible. Really, I think you’d be hard pressed to find a 20,000 seat stadium (new and old) that only built 900 additional parking spots.
Bike Infrastructure! The Jefferson and 20th street improvements were already confirmed but great to see them included. Many north/south side neighborhoods are going to find it much easier to get downtown by bike in 2022. Represent a $10m+ bike investment. Again, you’d be hard pressed to find similar.
Lastly, it’s obvious MetroLink is going to be critical in delivering maybe 5-10,000 fans each game. Between improvements at Union Station and along 21st, any concerns about it being unenjoyable walk/bike are seceding.
Between the investment in transit use through fares and utilizing already built publicly owned lots and garages, the transportation aspect is potentially recovering any abatement of amusement tax.
Only 900 additional parking spots is pretty incredible. Really, I think you’d be hard pressed to find a 20,000 seat stadium (new and old) that only built 900 additional parking spots.
Bike Infrastructure! The Jefferson and 20th street improvements were already confirmed but great to see them included. Many north/south side neighborhoods are going to find it much easier to get downtown by bike in 2022. Represent a $10m+ bike investment. Again, you’d be hard pressed to find similar.
Lastly, it’s obvious MetroLink is going to be critical in delivering maybe 5-10,000 fans each game. Between improvements at Union Station and along 21st, any concerns about it being unenjoyable walk/bike are seceding.
Between the investment in transit use through fares and utilizing already built publicly owned lots and garages, the transportation aspect is potentially recovering any abatement of amusement tax.
If there are concerns about parking I guess the Wells Fargo garages and lots could be pressed into service?
With the practice fields and offices in the city, I guess we can expect more in earnings tax too.
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I wonder if LHM will plan something for that parking lot they own just East of Union Station and between Drury and Maggie Obriens. Maybe they'll include a parking garage so they can make money off of parking and have some apartments or a hotel there. It would have nice views of everything.
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Looking over the photos again, I get the feeling this is a multi-phase development plan. There's plenty of small, buildings that can be acquired and demo'ed on the North side of Olive. Another hotel, or two, could come in on that side of the stadium, plus more supporting businesses. Over time, I bet they grow this all the way toward NGA.dmelsh wrote: ↑Oct 30, 2019With the practice fields and offices in the city, I guess we can expect more in earnings tax too.
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Wow, count me in as a fan of this! Yes, there are some details I could nitpick on, but this checks off pretty much every box I was hoping for.
That musty old Pear Tree Inn could easily be rebuilt as a mixed residential/hotel tower.frequentflyer wrote: ↑Oct 30, 2019Looking over the photos again, I get the feeling this is a multi-phase development plan. There's plenty of small, buildings that can be acquired and demo'ed on the North side of Olive. Another hotel, or two, could come in on that side of the stadium, plus more supporting businesses. Over time, I bet they grow this all the way toward NGA.dmelsh wrote: ↑Oct 30, 2019With the practice fields and offices in the city, I guess we can expect more in earnings tax too.
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^^^ I was thinking that, at least, they'd be due for a major rehab by 2022.
Minnesota's stadium only has one at the end.wabash wrote: ↑Oct 30, 2019Surprisingly few video boards, but maybe that’s the norm for soccer stadiums/soccer games? Maybe they are taking a page out of the Chaifetz Arena playbook book and putting big ones in the upper northeast and northwest corners of the stadium?
This looks fantastic. And I’m a big fan of the move north of Market. Hope this gets built.
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Well, the parking garage is beneath the practice fields, so I expect you'd just take 22nd down to the interchange they're planning. (There should still be entrance/exit ramps there, just not the gargantuan monsters that are there now.) If you're coming from the north you'll be able to take Market or Jefferson to get on 40W. Getting to 40E will be more of a trick, but then it always is. Either you go down the new 22nd to the new interchange, or you duck briefly west on Market to Ewing or you make your way over by Busch to Gratiot.chris fuller wrote: ↑Oct 30, 2019Just off the cuff but any ideas with Pine closing how one gets to Hwy W/E from the stadium? Olive to Jefferson south on Jefferson to 40 interchange?
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. . . or you just take Metrolink.
Yeah, I certainly can't complain, they did just about everything I suggested for a North of Market site, short of having the east edge of the stadium up against 20th Street. I do like the idea of the flex space generating activity along Market, and year-round bars, restaurants, and retail built into the stadium generating activity along 20th...I just wish it was all tied to Union Station better. I hope they plan on providing a year-round, enclosed pedestrian connection under Market Street. It looks like there might be, and I really can't imagine why they wouldn't...