urbanSTL

Wow, this thing is much bigger, or at least w i d e r, than I expected.  It looks larger than a 22,500 seat stadium.  And umm, if that is supposed to be Market St. in the foreground, they must be moving the Pear Tree Inn a block north...lol

Also, anyone think the very square stadium design is a hint about stadium naming / sponsorships?  Hmm???  

Overall a very solid design. And the ownership group has addressed virtually every concern raised, it seems. Can't wait to see this built and I'll be renting a ton of cars from Enterprise for a long time.

This will become likely one of the hottest hoods in all of St Louis. You’ll create potentially a real neighborhood entertainment district naturally. This is a big win for St Louis. There’s so much going on to keep up with.


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I don’t see the need for that. Fans walk across Market to get to 41 Blues games each year and 81 Cardinals games (with much larger attendance) each year. The crosswalks seem to be working just fine.

I prefer the previous rendering myself. I don’t think this stadium looks as cutting edge as previous renderings.  I like the underground parking aspect, but not a fan of the practice fields. I was hoping for some development if they were going to build across the street. I was also hoping the stadium would remain next to Union Station, where it has much better visibility from 64/40. In any event, I will not judge the project just yet. Obviously, I rendering can change and/or look much better in real life.

I hope you are right. That gives me some hope that the area can become more of a neighborhood or district in the future.

dweebe wrote: ↑

Oct 30, 2019

My guess is they couldn’t find a developer ready to go with plans and money in hand: so the practice fields are a placeholder.

Hopefully the stadium will be good enough that those fields last just a few years.

Agreed on the practice fields.
The presence of the team offices on-site makes me think the practice fields are a semi-permanent fixture. Will two practice fields be enough when you combine youth, reserve, and (possible) NWSL teams though? I realize some of those teams will practice elsewhere but organizations often like concentrating practice facilities for the sake of development and cohesion. Long term, I'd imagine they expand Soccer Park and who knows what happens to the downtown practice fields at that point. Either way, it will be pretty cool to take a ride in the ferris wheel and watch a pro team practice.  

IMO, this is the best detail and materiality we've gotten yet. Obviously the renderings were going to get more intricate as the design progressed but this is much better than I expected. I think HOK already does a good job of producing a very high end finish to their buildings but the influence of Snow Kreilich is undoubtable here. 

I don't know whether to think the practice fields will be permanent or not. 

I will say, I remember when the Cardinals put a softball field on a grass lot where BPV now stands. 

Additionally, when renderings were released in April, a practice field was shown to be on top of a parking garage. It's possible that the team could develop a few large buildings/garages and put the practice fields on top of them. That's the outcome I'm rooting for. 

Pretty much everything about this looks great to me. The fact that it is all privately funded is fantastic.

I am concerned the private market might try to respond first with parking garages before actual developments. Would hate to see multiple opportunities lost to parking lords trying to profit off of the owners efforts to use parking throughout Downtown. 

Specifically, 21st and Pine/Olive surface lots.

addxb2 wrote:I am concerned the private market might try to respond first with parking garages before actual developments. 

Specifically, 21st and Pine/Olive surface lots.

The lots bordered by 20th, 22nd Pine and Market will be covered by the stadium itself. So there won’t be an opportunity to develop them with parking or otherwise.



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wabash wrote: ↑

Oct 30, 2019

addxb2 wrote:I am concerned the private market might try to respond first with parking garages before actual developments. 

Specifically, 21st and Pine/Olive surface lots.

The lots bordered by 20th, 22nd Pine and Market will be covered by the stadium itself. So there won’t be an opportunity to develop them with parking or otherwise.



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Sorry, meant NE corners of 20th and Pine and Olive. East of the stadium.

I appreciate that they at least appear to be considering saving the 2008-2010 Olive building.

Could make for a nice bar/restaurant/brewery, on the grounds, even with Schlaf a block away.

urbanitas wrote: ↑

Oct 30, 2019

Yeah, I certainly can't complain, they did just about everything I suggested for a North of Market site, short of having the east edge of the stadium up against 20th Street.  I do like the idea of the flex space generating activity along Market, and year-round bars, restaurants, and retail built into the stadium generating activity along 20th...I just wish it was all tied to Union Station better.  I hope they plan on providing a year-round, enclosed pedestrian connection under Market Street.  It looks like there might be, and I really can't imagine why they wouldn't...

I agree and I wish Union Station were tied to everything better.

I'm going to be the lone dissenter.   This plan stinks in my opinion.  West Downtown is now home to two super blocks for the foreseeable future.  Maybe the practice fields will become something more but even then the outcome is still not that great & the new hotel on the old Harry's site doesn't really lend to a new street grid as part of a bigger development in my opinion.   You can visualize different phases of BPV and how surrounding infill/competing developers fills the gaps whether it be proposals like Cupples X or 300 Broadway but trying to picture how the practice fields might be developed in the future & how they fit into the surroundings. 

The only thing is that I can't really blame the ownership group because I honestly believe the time it has taken the state and city in handling of the old 22nd parkway  ramps and defunct parkway is pretty pathetic.    Someone with better knowledge can correct me but swear that plans to reconfigure Jeff Ave interchange and turn over the existing MoDOT property to city has been in the works for years.   Another way to put it, the ownership group has to deliver and their plan is truly a path forward because they can make it happen.  Who knows how long they would have to wait otherwise.  For that I give the owners credit for not putting their hands in the air and walking from a MLS franchise.       

The new stadium design looks pretty nice; very classy, actually. I think it will do a fine job of maintaining the monumental feeling along Market. 

That said, I still prefer the original "nautilus" design south of Market. And I dislike all those practice fields.  

I’m not a big MLS follower (yet), but just after a cursory review of the other stadiums out there, these renderings look much better than just about every other MLS stadium. Most have exposed bleachers on at least the ends and just don’t have the clean and consistent look of this proposal.

Soccer stadiums built within the last decade in DC, Orlando, San Jose, Philly, Houston and KC all come up way short compared to this.

This looks more on par with LA, New York and Minneapolis in terms of scale and design.

urbanitas wrote: ↑

Oct 30, 2019

frequentflyer wrote:Looking over the photos again, I get the feeling this is a multi-phase development plan.  There's plenty of small, buildings that can be acquired and demo'ed RESTORED AND RE-PURPOSED on the North side of Olive.  Another hotel, or two, could come in on that side of the stadium, plus more supporting businesses.  Over time, I bet they grow this all the way toward NGA.

I fixed that for you.  You're welcome.

There are far more than enough perfectly-suitable empty buildings in the surrounding blocks to house all of the hotels, bars, restaurants, offices, etc. that the activity at the stadium could possibly ever warrant, not to mention all of the grass and surface lots on which to build.  Look just a couple blocks east down Olive, there are entire intact blocks of streetwall just waiting to be restored...

We're all entitled to our own opinions and I would never take it upon myself to edit someone else's post.
There's a bunch of junky looking buildings on the North side of Olive that add nothing to the cityscape of St. Louis.  I'm all for historic preservation, but just because a building is old doesn't make it historically or architecturally significant. 

frequentflyer wrote: ↑

Oct 30, 2019

Here's BenFred's take...

https:// www.stltoday.com/sports/columns/ben-frederickson/benfred-st-louis-mls-stadium-will-be-a-testament-to/article_a35210e7-623f-539f-a3d3-ed9906e423bb.html

From the article:
"... game day parking will use what is already offered in the city. St. Louis has enough parking. It needs more reasons to come park. This plan realizes that."