Wow. Lots bigger than I expected. I really like how the low rise portion transitions into more of a Moorlands style.
I'll take it!
I'll take it!
My one tweak would be too separate the highrise from lower moorlands style structure.
Agree, I think the corner structure is a great fit for Hanely & existing street face and the back side along Clayon needs to mirror the area as rendered. But from site plan, it just looks goofy on how they try to tie them together. Maybe an underground walkway with a nice open air plaza between the two
I have zero confidence this gets built. You can already hear the NIMBYs and BANANAs freaking out.
^Actually, I think it's got a pretty good chance. Scale and massing matches neighboring buildings. No retail. No office. Elderly folks don't drive as much, and they make good, quiet neighbors.
I think the neighborhood will perceive this as their best chance to get something relatively low-key for this site. I think they'll go for it, if reluctantly.
I think the neighborhood will perceive this as their best chance to get something relatively low-key for this site. I think they'll go for it, if reluctantly.
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FAKE NEWSdweebe wrote:I have zero confidence this gets built. You can already hear the NIMBYs and BANANAs freaking out.
It's much larger and more impressive than what I expected, and the low traffic, and major step down in building height to the east should go over well with the neighbors. I think this has a good chance of getting approved; it gives the city a good amount of what they've been asking for regarding quality development at that corner
Selfishly as a neighbor, I'd like to hope the city might press for some street level retail, as senior housing isn't really getting me too excited.
Selfishly as a neighbor, I'd like to hope the city might press for some street level retail, as senior housing isn't really getting me too excited.
Your hopes are perfectly reasonable, but retail seems to mean one thing in the analysis of this site.... traffic!!! (Gasp, recoil, grab pitchfork, call local official)
Positives:
- height and mass
- no tax incentives
Drawbacks:
- no retail
- very ugly
Positives far outweigh the negetives! Hope this thing gets built quickly.
Hanley really should be a major thouroughfare with tons of high density projects, broken up with high end suburban enclaves, from North County to Webster. Stupid Saint Louis.
- height and mass
- no tax incentives
Drawbacks:
- no retail
- very ugly
Positives far outweigh the negetives! Hope this thing gets built quickly.
Hanley really should be a major thouroughfare with tons of high density projects, broken up with high end suburban enclaves, from North County to Webster. Stupid Saint Louis.
^ I don't see why every street facing development has to have retail.
So don't see it as downside especially when you go a couple blocks in each way and their is retail, coffee shops, grocery store, etc. On top of if it the development is meant to draw a crowd that has lot less need for retail to begin with.
So don't see it as downside especially when you go a couple blocks in each way and their is retail, coffee shops, grocery store, etc. On top of if it the development is meant to draw a crowd that has lot less need for retail to begin with.
I don't see how the density in the immediate area & demographics of this project can support retail on a block by block basis and in the immediate area when it already exists. Retail at the end of the day is still a commercial activity and just adding some residents in the immediate area or because it is a street facing development means that you have dollars to support additional commercial activity
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Agreed. What retail would succeed on this corner? Another coffee shop? CVS? Let’s be realistic that the only retail that would probably want to go on this corner would want lots of parking and wouldn’t really add to the walkability if the corner.
I’m a huge proponent of retail in new development, but this location doesn’t feel like one where retail is “required”.
I’m a huge proponent of retail in new development, but this location doesn’t feel like one where retail is “required”.
I agree with your thoughts. Maybe it is because it is such a busy/fast driving intersection but I am not sure retail doesn't fits well at this spot. It would fit better if it was a more walkable corner. Not to sound too NIMBY but if one of the streets was a little narrower or at least not as major as a road, then I could see it along that. I don't know if that intersection needs more traffic added by people trying to get in and out of a retail development on the corner plus what I am sure would be parking between the building and the road which would be ugly. I was/still am not totally on board with senior living but the current rendering made me like it more and can live with it.chaifetz10 wrote: ↑Mar 10, 2018Agreed. What retail would succeed on this corner? Another coffee shop? CVS? Let’s be realistic that the only retail that would probably want to go on this corner would want lots of parking and wouldn’t really add to the walkability if the corner.
I’m a huge proponent of retail in new development, but this location doesn’t feel like one where retail is “required”.
As a resident about a 5/10 minute walk from here,
If economics didn't matter I'd like a United Provisions type grocery. The Clayton Rd Shnucks is a nightmare and crossing Clayton/Big Bend intersection + parking lot stinks. Really atrocious pedestrian experience. Pretty much the same goes for Walgreens.
If economics matter I'd like a high end, maybe Italian or French restuarant. This plays to the senior citizen demographics in all of the high rises along Hanley and many in the Moorlands. Something that is eye catching/gets hype.
Basically I think the visibility/high traffic count of this location would be wasted without retail. All retail between Hanley and Brentwood seems dead compared to what it could be. A high profile spot at the corner could draw people in and then lead to revitalizing that corridor.
If economics didn't matter I'd like a United Provisions type grocery. The Clayton Rd Shnucks is a nightmare and crossing Clayton/Big Bend intersection + parking lot stinks. Really atrocious pedestrian experience. Pretty much the same goes for Walgreens.
If economics matter I'd like a high end, maybe Italian or French restuarant. This plays to the senior citizen demographics in all of the high rises along Hanley and many in the Moorlands. Something that is eye catching/gets hype.
Basically I think the visibility/high traffic count of this location would be wasted without retail. All retail between Hanley and Brentwood seems dead compared to what it could be. A high profile spot at the corner could draw people in and then lead to revitalizing that corridor.
"Some residents of a residential tower at 900 S. Hanley Road, just to the north of the site, expressed concerns about noise, traffic and impact on their sightlines."
Never mind that their own tower did the same when it was built.
http://www.westendword.com/Articles-New ... oject.html
Never mind that their own tower did the same when it was built.
http://www.westendword.com/Articles-New ... oject.html
Well, they didn't live here then did they?framer wrote: ↑Mar 28, 2018"Some residents of a residential tower at 900 S. Hanley Road, just to the north of the site, expressed concerns about noise, traffic and impact on their sightlines."
Never mind that their own tower did the same when it was built.
http://www.westendword.com/Articles-New ... oject.html
^Classic Clayton NIMBYism. What’s so great about their current view of a vacant one story building surrounded by a huge surface parking lot? And In the distance I imagine their are birds-eye views of Highway 40 and the Brentwood Promenade- not exactly scenic. Almost anything would be an improvement in my “view”, haha.
Moving forward, with one less floor, and the addition of 1500 sq. ft. of retail on Hanley:
http://www.stltoday.com/business/local/ ... cd8c5.html
http://www.stltoday.com/business/local/ ... cd8c5.html
New render:
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At least it is moving forward. Will do wonders to that corner.framer wrote:New render:
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We really pushed for more retail so I’m glad to see that was included.
I hate to keep being Negative Nancy: but even with changes its still not going to get built.
^Sure it will; upper-end retirement living is huge right now, the developer is experienced, and the neighbors seem to be on board.