That would make a parking lot for what, ten spots?
Such a loss. I remember this building when I would go downtown as a kid.
Such a loss. I remember this building when I would go downtown as a kid.
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TWG Properties plans to develop 88 market-rate apartments and five new townhouses at 917-923 Locust in downtown St. Louis. They are currently seeking more incentives -
Anyone have access to full story? http://www.bizjournals.com/stlouis/news ... ntown.html
Anyone have access to full story? http://www.bizjournals.com/stlouis/news ... ntown.html
What would urban townhouses even look like?STLhistoryBuff wrote: ↑May 24, 2017TWG Properties plans to develop 88 market-rate apartments and five new townhouses at 917-923 Locust in downtown St. Louis. They are currently seeking more incentives -
Anyone have access to full story? http://www.bizjournals.com/stlouis/news ... ntown.html
Trying to picture five three story townhouses with entrances facing side street & can't see how it comes out good.
A commercial/retail corner tenant with 2-3 floors of sleek co work space or an open floor space seems like a lot better fit.
I think 5 contemporary townhouses fit onto that space rather easy, especially the tall and skinny type. Aren't there lots in the Central West End and Lafayette Square where this has been pulled off with a similar amount of space? Townhouses in the middle of the high rise districts are very common in cities like New York, San Francisco, Chicago etc. You are even start to see it in places like Denver and Minneapolis. I think St. Louis could easily pull it off. In fact, I would like to see that type of development fill lots throughout downtown west and midtown.
I think the point with tall and skinny is those townhouses or maybe a better term is row house often have depth or elongated which the site might not have if you have any kind of setback, stairs up to front door.goat314 wrote: ↑May 25, 2017I think 5 contemporary townhouses fit onto that space rather easy, especially the tall and skinny type. Aren't there lots in the Central West End and Lafayette Square where this has been pulled off with a similar amount of space? Townhouses in the middle of the high rise districts are very common in cities like New York, San Francisco, Chicago etc. You are even start to see it in places like Denver and Minneapolis. I think St. Louis could easily pull it off. In fact, I would like to see that type of development fill lots throughout downtown west and midtown.
Agree with west and midtown but aren't you talking heart of Wash Ave, downtown at this location.
^that rendering is about what I expected. Almost looks like they reconfigured the building that is already there.
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This smells fishy. Four random, lonely town homes in the middle of the CBD... I can imagine examples of preexisting town houses surrounded by newer high rise development, but I can't think of any examples where a handful of town houses has been squeezed into the middle of a city's CBD.
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Can anyone find an example of town homes being placed in the central business district of another major city?
Well, not quite the same thing, but apparently maisonette apartments are all the rage in New York.JaredOpsal wrote: ↑May 26, 2017Can anyone find an example of town homes being placed in the central business district of another major city?
https://www.brickunderground.com/blog/2 ... nette_mean
Well, to be fair, the proposal is for five town homes next to a redeveloped mid-rise and a high-rise apartment building with 80 new apartments between them.urban_dilettante wrote: ↑May 25, 2017This smells fishy. Four random, lonely town homes in the middle of the CBD... I can imagine examples of preexisting town houses surrounded by newer high rise development, but I can't think of any examples where a handful of town houses has been squeezed into the middle of a city's CBD.
You're also just down the street from the Old Post Office (nee Roberts) Tower, and the Lofts at OPOP are on the same block. The Gallery 1014 Luxury apartments are one block west on Locust. And you're within walking distance of the Syndicate, the Ludwig Lofts, the Paul Brown Building, Merchandise Mart, etc. And you're importantly one block away from Culinaria. a new 923 Locust wouldn't be 'lonely town homes in the middle of a city's CBD'.
It'd be a shame to lose 923 Locust; I really want to hear their justification why it can't be rehabbed (I mean, as they're rehabbing its neighbors to the east it's not like the developers are anti-reuse). And their newest rendering of its replacement is a hot mess (as was the last one). But there is demand for residential in that part of town, and assuming for the moment that the tudor building *has* to go, the replacement would have to be low-rise unless you want to block the west-facing windows of the mid-rise next door. I do applaud them for at least trying something different.
-RBB
I personally don't hate it. Chicago's south loop and river north neighborhoods have low rise neighboring high rise and it flows well, I actually like it. This might work well to give a welcoming feel to a block with a lot of residential coming online. It's not ideal, not by a long shot, but it's interesting to say the least and I don't think it takes away from downtown in the slightest
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- 3,762
i didn't mean lonely in the sense that there is no other residential around, but that there are no other similarly scaled single-family residences around. if this were a larger development, or if there were other clusters of town houses around downtown, it wouldn't seem weird to me. but, hey, if people will buy them then i'm all for it. i'd rather see a denser development but, like you said, there are windows to consider.
Ah, I understand now thanks. I have an affinity for things off-the-wall - I like the out-of-the-box thinking. If the Tudor building has to go, here's hoping the design (and the renderings of the design) are refined enough to make the replacement a positive contribution to the built environment.urban_dilettante wrote: ↑May 26, 2017i didn't mean lonely in the sense that there is no other residential around, but that there are no other similarly scaled single-family residences around. if this were a larger development, or if there were other clusters of town houses around downtown, it wouldn't seem weird to me. but, hey, if people will buy them then i'm all for it. i'd rather see a denser development but, like you said, there are windows to consider.
-RBB
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Interesting proposal that I think I'd be much more comfortable with as infill.... I feel this would be a net loss for downtown and would support higher than normal incentives for the rehab of the historic building to make it work
I think some well-designed town homes with some corner retail could work well on the blank strip along the west side 11th Street all the way from Lucas to Locust. Maybe ideally town homes/corner retail on the blocks north and south of Washington that have a narrower width and a larger mixed-use mid or high rise(s) for the massive space on the Saint Charles-Locust block.
I think some well-designed town homes with some corner retail could work well on the blank strip along the west side 11th Street all the way from Lucas to Locust. Maybe ideally town homes/corner retail on the blocks north and south of Washington that have a narrower width and a larger mixed-use mid or high rise(s) for the massive space on the Saint Charles-Locust block.
I applaud TWG for taking on this project but I don't see this concept working at the corner of 10th and Locust. Who wants to have your living room with huge windows at this intersection? I, for one, don't want to be sitting on the couch, or having dinner, while people look in as they walk down the sidewalk. I guess that means the blinds would be pulled down all the time - similar to the so-called live/work spaces on the east end of the block which have been slow to lease.
It also doesn't seem to be what downtown really needs at this corner. For downtown to be the fun, vibrant place it should be, it needs more street level shops and restaurant to help activate the street. This is one of very few intersections in downtown where we could actually have retail on all four corners. Amazing as it sounds, i don't think downtown has any intersections where all the corners are activated.
This is yet another example of why downtown needs a form based code. Too much of the built environment is poorly designed or has been compromised to the point that the streetscapes are not inviting. Again, glad to see this block getting redeveloped but we need to make sure its done in a manner that is as good as possible for downtown. A new building on the corner is fine. It should however include first floor retail space - ideally with small retail bays as there aren't many of those in downtown and yet they're easier to lease.
It also doesn't seem to be what downtown really needs at this corner. For downtown to be the fun, vibrant place it should be, it needs more street level shops and restaurant to help activate the street. This is one of very few intersections in downtown where we could actually have retail on all four corners. Amazing as it sounds, i don't think downtown has any intersections where all the corners are activated.
This is yet another example of why downtown needs a form based code. Too much of the built environment is poorly designed or has been compromised to the point that the streetscapes are not inviting. Again, glad to see this block getting redeveloped but we need to make sure its done in a manner that is as good as possible for downtown. A new building on the corner is fine. It should however include first floor retail space - ideally with small retail bays as there aren't many of those in downtown and yet they're easier to lease.
They've removed all the parking meters and stop lights from the northeast corner of 10th and Locust. I interpret that as demo/construction is eminent.
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For those interested, the neighborhood association has posted an open letter on our website concerning this project and the need for updated zoning laws in Downtown.
http://www.saintlouisdna.org/open-lette ... -planning/
http://www.saintlouisdna.org/open-lette ... -planning/
Barriers are up. I assume it's days are short lived at this point
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