My post on the OKC Downtown Streetcar was only meant to demonstrate that OKC was building a long-planned, well-planned "Downtown" Streetcar - not comparing cities. Granted St. Louis has an amazing hybrid light-rail system, how long has St. Louis been planning a downtown streetcar?
I also posted that Seattle just approved 62 new miles of light rail.
Overall, metro St. Louis needs to beef up its transit options, which was the only point of my recent posts here.
I don't care if OKC is a 620 square mile city or anything else.
It does seem that its much easier to expand transit options in areas that have less racial tensions past and present. Since I do think that is the biggest problem in expanding it here.
^ possibly... but the Cross Country fiasco was a big setback, imo, both in monetary and perception terms. And our failure to execute strong TOD hasn't helped. And then finally I think a whole lot of people, including me, were under the impression that we'd be getting more metrolink when the County prop passed in 2010 or whenever it was. We seem to support the idea of transit rather well in the city and county, but the execution just hasn't been there as it should.
OKC committed to improving their Downtown and I am fine with that model. They used the OKC Thunder and that momentum to really accelerate Downtown to another level. The team brought people Downtown and created development, according to my colleagues in OKC. We already have the Cards and hopefully they will create some new momentum with BPV Phase II. We also have a new MLS team that will have that potential if done right. I hope the Union Station site is the winner. Throw in the ferris wheel/aquarium and other Union Station developments and we are looking at a boom for that area. I would like to see this stuff bleed in to midtown alley and finally connect the CWE, Cortex & midtown to Downtown. Then add a street car and then we'll be talking about a epic boom and a true megadowntown, at least to Forest Park.
I agree its hard to compare STL with a lot of other cities, esp. the OKC types, but I think we're finally competitive with our rust belt peers in terms of post-recession development. At least with whats on the drawing boards... I'm anxious for some of these vital projects to actually start.
I picture even then, the rust belt comparisons have some noticeable differences here from there. Since wasn't the economic problems in many of them tended to be much more pointed events and happened earlier? Here it seemed to be more a drip and not a shock, possibly due to having a more diverse manufacturing sector than in a number of other rust belt areas.
STLrainbow wrote:I agree its hard to compare STL with a lot of other cities, but I think we're finally competitive with our rust belt peers in terms of post-recession development. At least with whats on the drawing boards... I'm anxious for some of these vital projects to actually start.
I agree. It's finally hard to keep track of it all.
For me at CranetrackerSTL, it's daunting to keep up, but it's good problem to have for the region.
So quickly, these planned projects need to happen because there could easily be a downturn in the economy; and St. Louis developers get spooked easily.
We are not the only region with nimbys. Suburban residents in Des Moines, Minneapolis, and Washington DC metros pack city council meetings to fight sidewalks and "citification" of their neighborhoods.
Speaking of NIMBYs- here is the Minneapolis version. https://www.minnpost.com/politics-polic ... hborhoods-
Now that the existing buildings in Downtown STL are renovated and space will be needed for new residential buildings, the NIMBYs will come out of the woodwork in droves. When demand outstrips supply and rents keep going up, (even with all of the building that is going on) it gets real interesting (and frustrating) real quick.
The NIMBYS need to go and accept and support the new development because in the long run, it will help change their city and then they will say that they were part of change
Long time "lurker," first time "writer." Love this website, and although I'm not "schooled" in urban development, I am interested and find this site consistently full of good information.
I'm interested in responding to this thread because of how the conversation has turned to Oklahoma City. I was born and raised there, most family and many friends are there, and I return multiple times a year. I always tour the burgeoning neighborhoods and keep up with projects in OKC. At the same time, I have lived in the St. Louis metro area for 18 years (for context: Town and Country, Richmond Heights, Univ City and Rock Hill)
Someone said comparing OKC to STL is like "apples" and "oranges." It's true. Their histories and contexts are completely different. OKC would kill for the built environment of STL, but alas, my hometown was largely built in the automobile area. Not to say there aren't some neat urban neighborhoods - there are, the Paseo, Midtown, 23rd, Automobile Alley - and they are developing very rapidly, which is heartening to see - but they can't in good conscience be compared to St. Louis's gems, at least not at this point in time.
What I want to address though is something else. It's not so much history as it is trajectory, or more to the point, perceived trajectory, because perception can become reality. If you went to OKC and pulled ten random people off the street and did the same thing in STL (not the types that read these boards, just the general population) and asked them: "Relative to the rest of the country, are your town's best days ahead of them or behind them, in OKC, most or all 10 would say "ahead of us" and in St. Louis, it would largely be the opposite, if we're being honest with ourselves. What MAPS and downtown revitalization did in OKC was create a sense of forward momentum, a very real, tangible plan - this is what we are doing, this is the timetable, and people began to see results, and in turn they trusted the process and kept it going so that now it is accelerating and getting to the point where it will continue to accelerate faster and will not even need the tax to continue in order for it to happen. STL, with all of it's divisions and fiefdoms will have a very hard time figuring out how to do that. How do we do that here? What form does it take? How do you get St. Charles and Ferguson and Lafayette Square on the same page for anything? I don't know the answer but I know this - if Oklahoma City, which started out way behind - literally 150 years behind, can catch up to STL in my lifetime, which it very well might, then STL with it's inherent advantages should be able to figure it out. I'm fascinated by the question and hopefully the answers.
Great post. Nothing of OKC's plan will emerge until St. Louis County:
1) gets itself to 10 communites of ~100K people each
and
2) allows STL city to be the 11th community..NOTHING
But, the game-changer could be our start-up scene in that it just muscles growth through the BS this metro area has...And the rumors one hears out of Cortex and our start-up community in general may lend credence to that.
I guess my point is that STL has a lot of things going on that could and should be momentum-changers. CORTEX, The Foundry project, the construction and renovation in the Grove, CWE, BJC, Clayton, the Centene project, Ballpark Village. So how do we translate this into the larger context of getting the region to "buy in" to this, to "buy in" to positivity rather than negativity, to see Urban St. Louis's successes as the region's successes...to even care? That was the point of my post...suburban OKC denizens who haven't been downtown in a decade have rallied to the idea that the urban core's success is there success too. That's my question.
One of the most troubling findings in the report is that Indianapolis seems to be falling behind its Midwestern peers.
From 2000 to 2014, median household income in Indianapolis grew 5.1 percent, to $42,076, far less than in Columbus, Ohio; Kansas City, Missouri; and Milwaukee, Wisconsin, where increases ranged from 10.8 percent to 22.6 percent.
pretty good article with focus on gentrification, etc. and how few neighborhoods are seeing an upswing.
Somehow that doesn't surprise me. Not a bit. Sorry to see SLU so low down the totem pole as well, though . . . that also doesn't surprise me too much, though for quite different reasons. (And without the color of long personal experience.) Pleasant surprise to see Wash U right up at the top.
Cincinnati is kicking our ass when it comes to landing Hollywood film productions. I don't feel like listing them out, but Cincinnati has snagged some big A-list movies recently. Currently shooting in Cincinnati is Old Man and the Gun, starring Robert Redford, Casey Affleck, Danny Glover, Cissy Spasek and Tom Waits. St. Louis hasn't seen a major production since, what, Up in the Air? Blame MISSOURAH for cutting motion picture tax credits from the budget. Cincinnati is a versatile and photogenic city, but St. Louis can certainly match it. This state is so ass backwards.
I noticed that Emporis has spun Clayton off as a separate listing. So now, anyone looking up tall buildings in St. Louis won't see The Plaza, 212 S. Meramec, any of the Centene buildings, etc. (actually, none of the new Centene buildings are listed at all).
I heard this travel spot for Detroit four times on two different radio stations today. I think it's a great ad because it celebrates what Detroit is rather than cheesing it up to the point it becomes cliche. I particularly like the narration-- "take the sidewalk less traveled","discover what a real city feels like", etc. Detroit owns its grit, it doesn't try to pretty itself to appeal to everyone.
I wish St. Louis marketing campaigns would take notes from Detroit in this regard. I honestly think the baseball shtick and free attractions is way overdone. Let's focus on the "real city" as Detroit does so well. Our architecture is practically ignored by travel campaigns-- why??? St. Louis can be a great destination for adventurous travelers. If only we could capture a little of the mystique of Detroit.
Cincinnati is kicking our ass when it comes to landing Hollywood film productions. I don't feel like listing them out, but Cincinnati has snagged some big A-list movies recently. Currently shooting in Cincinnati is Old Man and the Gun, starring Robert Redford, Casey Affleck, Danny Glover, Cissy Spasek and Tom Waits. St. Louis hasn't seen a major production since, what, Up in the Air? Blame MISSOURAH for cutting motion picture tax credits from the budget. Cincinnati is a versatile and photogenic city, but St. Louis can certainly match it. This state is so ass backwards.
The state blunders a lot but there was a reason these were cut
Variety - The trade mag of the industry - ran a great piece last year about USC study on how film subsidies are losers for states - The problem is the big money and infrastructure that support the movie industry stays in Hollywood - Basically you get a small, and temporary bump in wages for local staff - Better to invest in permanent jobs http://variety.com/2016/biz/news/film-t ... 201840189/
